Minnesota Sports Forum

I hear everyone say how well we played with Rubio....but all I saw was that we beat 2 fairly terrible teams, and lost to the 2 good teams we played. I get it, the games with the Bulls and Griz were close, but we lost none the less. What exactly does this prove? Well, in my mind, that we are an average team that on their best day can challenge a very good team, and we are capable of beating teams worse than us. Nothing worng with this, but I also don't think this shows a team that is ready to post a 40 win season, with our without Rubio. IMO, this has always been a 25-30 win team at best. As someone else mentioned, if Rubio is as dominant, and such an important piece, how did he and Love not get us over .500 last season? Now, we expect to do this, in an impossibly tough western conference, with a bunch of rookies and 2nd year guys? I just don't see it. This team is at the beginning of a solid rebuild, with great future pieces, but we have a ways to go to be truly competitive.

Hicks123 wrote:I hear everyone say how well we played with Rubio....but all I saw was that we beat 2 fairly terrible teams, and lost to the 2 good teams we played. I get it, the games with the Bulls and Griz were close, but we lost none the less. What exactly does this prove? Well, in my mind, that we are an average team that on their best day can challenge a very good team, and we are capable of beating teams worse than us. Nothing worng with this, but I also don't think this shows a team that is ready to post a 40 win season, with our without Rubio. IMO, this has always been a 25-30 win team at best. As someone else mentioned, if Rubio is as dominant, and such an important piece, how did he and Love not get us over .500 last season? Now, we expect to do this, in an impossibly tough western conference, with a bunch of rookies and 2nd year guys? I just don't see it. This team is at the beginning of a solid rebuild, with great future pieces, but we have a ways to go to be truly competitive.

I may be the president of the "we played well with Rubio" fan club, so I'll reply with my thoughts. I agree that the Pistons are not a very good team, and I don't take too much from that win, other than we did what we were supposed to do. But I'm not going to diminish a gritty win on Brooklyn's court...they are 3-1 at home aside from our win. And I'm also not going to diminish close losses to Memphis and Chicago in venues where they are each 6-0. Memphis is 9-1 and playing as well as anyone, and has beaten Sacramento, Houston and NO at home, the last two by double digits. And despite not having Rose for most of the season, the Bulls are 6-0 on the road, most recently beating the Clippers by 16 at Staples Center. And we took them both down to the wire. You can argue that 4 games is a small sample size, but it's difficult to say that that wasn't an impressive week of basketball. And that our play is the mirror opposite with Rubio out.

You ask why Rubio, with Love, couldn't get us over .500 last year. I know I am almost a lone voice here, but I don't see Love as the kind of guy who makes a team notably better, especially when he is the anointed leader of the team. Adelman made it clear that the Wolves' were Love's team, and neutered Rubio in the offense by running the offense through Kevin. The difference between Ricky playing with Love and without him is stunning, and had me very excited after the first four games. Love hasn't thrived yet with the Cavs, but I think he probably will in a better role for him...as a secondary guy rather than the man. But there's no question in my mind that Ricky will thrive now that he is the unquestioned leader of this team. I don't think his opening 4-game brilliance was an aberration, and expect that there are even better performances ahead.

I think the question of whether the Wolves can be competitive this year comes down whether one thinks the first four games were a fluke or not. Time will tell, but I don't think they were.

LST, You are putting too much stock in only four games. To make such sweeping judgments about Rubio is very tenuous. And he hasn't been THAT good. His FTAs are down and his turnovers and fouls are up versus last year, while his assists and PPG aren't all that different. I know the +/- numbers are impressive, but that is a noisy stat (since it does involve other players too) and to remain as high as they are would be unsustainable.

We all know that Rubio is our most important player, but you are being a little hyperbolic in terms of his impact - and this is coming from a guy who just pointed out all the reasons to Porkchop - Rubio's biggest critic - why he's so wrong!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2265955-2015-nba-mock-draft-very-early-look-at-all-30-projected-first-round-picks/page/7

Early Mock draft

Thanks for that, bleed. I think Porzingis would have to put on about 30 pounds before I would be interested. Intriguing combination of length, skills and athleticism, though, if he can add a lot of strength. Here's his draftexpress profile from last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WOEG1k2eCw

I know I tend to wear rose-colored glasses, but I still don't see the Wolves drafting in the top ten this year, provided Rubio returns healthy in early January. I'm looking at Bobby Portis if we think Thadeus is going to be looking for more money than we will be willing to cough up, or Caris Levert if replacing Kevin Martin is our #1 goal.

I just read that Rubio is ahead of schedule.

I'm 100% certain the Wolves will now win 50 games this season.



[Note: I have to commend the optimism about Rubio's prowess and the team in general... but it's overly optimistic. Rubio was probably a subpar starting PG last season despite his prolific passing. We're changing that after a 4-game sample? While I was hoping (and even expecting) an improvement from Rubio this season, I'm not taking a 4-game sample as proof. That's foolhardy.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I just read that Rubio is ahead of schedule.

I'm 100% certain the Wolves will now win 50 games this season.



[Note: I have to commend the optimism about Rubio's prowess and the team in general... but it's rarely optimistic. Rubio was probably a subpar starting PG last season despite his prolific passing. We're changing that after a 4-game sample? While I was hoping (and even expecting) an improvement from Rubio this season, I'm not taking a 4-game sample as proof. That's foolhardy.]

I hope I didn't give the impression that I was using a 4-game sample as proof of anything. But this is an opinion board, and all of us are going to share our opinions based on what we see at any given time.

What I saw in that first week gave me a lot of optimism. I was pleased with our play in all four games, and I doubt there were many, or any, times in the past 4-5 years that I could say that. For whatever reason (Flip coaching, Love gone, more athleticism) the team played hard from the opening tip to the final whistle, and while there were moments of frustration that you expect from a relatively inexperienced team, I was more optimistic after the Nets game than I was coming into the season. In my own mind, I upped my expected win total from 40 to 45. Then Rubio went down, and it was clear from the start that this team was not at all the same club with Mo and Zach at the point, especially on defense. It's relatively easy to find ten games in the schedule from the onset of Ricky's injury until when I expect him back, that were winnable but now look like clear losses...starting with that first loss to a bad Orlando team. But even with those 10 extra losses, I still see this club winning 35 games, assuming Ricky and Kevin return relatively healthy in early January (and I fully admit that's a big "if").

The absence of Ricky, Pek, Kevin, Thad, and Ronny may cost us ten wins, but there are silver linings. Even though I don't see a top 5 pick like many here, the ten extra losses will give us a better pick...I'm just looking at players expected to fall around 10 rather than the Big 3. Also, the depleted roster has helped with our depth and development of Wiggins as a budding superstar. If everyone is healthy, Robbie, Bud and Shabazz don't get the opportunity to show Flip that they can potentially be effective, and Drew perhaps isn't encouraged to take charge like he has the past few games. That's why I see us as a .500 team if and when our veterans come back.

If I were to take the long view, I might be satisfied with Ricky's and Kevin's injuries being season-ending, because then we would be in line for 15 wins and a top three pick. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I'm still hoping they come back strong in January and we go .500 until the end of the season.

I think the Wolves will struggle to win 20 games. I think it's very unlikely Rubio returns from injury in top form and it may turn into a lingering issue this season. The Wolves will be sure not to make it an ongoing issue into the future just for the chance to win 25 games. 30 games. Or 35 games.

In the meantime, the Wolves have an odd mix of super young promising guys and older vets with limited, but decent, skill and value. If they can get value from those guys in a trade... why wouldn't they pursue it?

Losing guys like Martin, Brewer, Pek, Young, et al... may not seem like a big hit... but we're seeing what missing guys can do to this team. It was projected by most to be a Western Conference bottom feeder when fully healthy. Losing any of those players, whether from injury or trade, is going to hurt.

The Wolves can't come back from this start. And why should they? Flip Saunders has yet another pass (1. Wiggins. 2. Injuries) where he can completely tank this season and get away with it without getting heat from fans.

He's going to take it.

That's my fear...that Ricky's ankle doesn't allow him to play at full capacity this year. I know that is worse case, but the Wolves seem to fall to worse case with injuries more often than not. If Ricky is not able to go 100% this year, I'm in favor of Flip going into full development (i.e. full tank) mode. Shut Ricky down for the year, give the starting PG position and 28 minutes to Zach, and even give GR3 some burn other than garbage time. That would certainly add up to 15 wins and a top three pick.

But Flip is nowhere near tank mode yet...if he was, he wouldn't be playing Mo so many minutes at PG. Flip is putting the players on the court that he thinks give us the best chance to win. Let's see if he changes his philosophy if Ricky can't return in an effective fashion.

"It was projected by most to be a Western Conference bottom feeder when fully healthy."

While this is true, a lot of the same people who projected that were beginning to backtrack on that one after four games. Stein even said perhaps he underrated us in one of his power rankings. So had we stayed relatively healthy, or really just had Rubio stayed healthy, the Wolves likely would be hovering near .500 basketball even to this point.