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Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:40 am
by Lipoli390
I'm thinking about GRIII plus the Miami pick and some expirings for Thad Young.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:32 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
lipoli390 wrote:I'm thinking about GRIII plus the Miami pick and some expirings for Thad Young.
Again, just like the Cleveland deal, GRIII doesn't need to be included.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:39 am
by Monster
Camden0916 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:I'm thinking about GRIII plus the Miami pick and some expirings for Thad Young.
Again, just like the Cleveland deal, GRIII doesn't need to be included.
Lip I've been tempted to add GR3 into the Thad trade but then I'm not sure he adds much for them. They added a couple wings in the 2nd round passing on him at least once for other guys. I'm not saying he doesn't have any value to them but it might not be enough for Flip to add him in that trade. I tend to think Flip is going to find a spot for GR3 since he talked about how excited he was and had him and LaVine in the PC and GR3 is doing all the rookie stuff as a Wolf. Sure he could be gone and Flip may be hoping GR3 goes overseas for a year but I think Flip still values him enough to find him a place on the roster. Cheap young talent that's the way to build a team.
One thing I think is worth mentioning is the Sixers have a lot of guys potentially on their roster so they will have to make some cuts. What guys do they like and what guys don't they like? I think one asset that we can offer the Sixers is even more cap space. What if we only sent them Luc and Shved (plus the Miami pick) for Thad. That would give them almost 2 million more in cap space to do more deals. What I'd the Cavs send some non-guarnteed contracts to Philly in a 3 team deal so they end up with say only Luc as a guy they have to pay giving the 76ers over 5 million more in cap space in the deal. The problem with that for the Wolves is I think that would put them around the luxury mark and they aren't gonna go into the luxury tax this year.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:12 am
by bleedspeed
Why does everyone care about GR3? I think we know how Flip values him. He values him less then Hummel.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:40 am
by TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]
lipoli390 wrote:I'm thinking about GRIII plus the Miami pick and some expirings for Thad Young.
I don't like that idea. I'd rather trade Bennett or Shabbaz before GR3. GR3's more athletic, a better defender, a better teammate, a nice pedigree and the cheapest contract of all.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:45 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
bleedspeed177 wrote:Why does everyone care about GR3? I think we know how Flip values him. He values him less then Hummel.
I don't know if that is true, bleed, but I agree that there is probably too much discussion about GR3 here. Guys like Hummel and Robinson are nice, end-of-the-bench players who are never going to determine the success of this franchise. Both were good college players (Hummel actually was decidedly more successful in college than GR3), who don't project to be much in the NBA. If it came down to one of them to be our 15th man, I would go with Hummel because of his potential to be a 3-point specialist.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:24 am
by TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]
longstrangetrip wrote:bleedspeed177 wrote:Why does everyone care about GR3? I think we know how Flip values him. He values him less then Hummel.
I don't know if that is true, bleed, but I agree that there is probably too much discussion about GR3 here. Guys like Hummel and Robinson are nice, end-of-the-bench players who are never going to determine the success of this franchise. Both were good college players (Hummel actually was decidedly more successful in college than GR3), who don't project to be much in the NBA. If it came down to one of them to be our 15th man, I would go with Hummel because of his potential to be a 3-point specialist.
We don't need both Hummel and Budinger. One of them will probably be gone. GR3 can be a good rotation player when this team becomes competitive again. He absolutely could become a difference maker. I think because he was taken in the second round people dismiss him. I want to see GR3 develop and I'm ok with him playing DLeague this year if he won't find enough minutes.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:42 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
TeamRicky wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:bleedspeed177 wrote:Why does everyone care about GR3? I think we know how Flip values him. He values him less then Hummel.
I don't know if that is true, bleed, but I agree that there is probably too much discussion about GR3 here. Guys like Hummel and Robinson are nice, end-of-the-bench players who are never going to determine the success of this franchise. Both were good college players (Hummel actually was decidedly more successful in college than GR3), who don't project to be much in the NBA. If it came down to one of them to be our 15th man, I would go with Hummel because of his potential to be a 3-point specialist.
We don't need both Hummel and Budinger. One of them will probably be gone. GR3 can be a good rotation player when this team becomes competitive again. He absolutely could become a difference maker. I think because he was taken in the second round people dismiss him. I want to see GR3 develop and I'm ok with him playing DLeague this year if he won't find enough minutes.
Maybe GR3 is overlooked because he was picked in the second round (like Robbie and Bud). But more likely he is overlooked because he was not an overly impressive college player. Despite above average athleticism, he tended to disappear in games that I watched, and only averaged 12 and 5 in his two years in college...with less than stellar 31% 3-point shooting. Hummel and Bud had better college stats in all categories, and both shot over 38% in threes in their careers. GR3 is the better athlete, but this team is not lacking athletes...this team is lacking 3-point shooting. And Bud and Hummel can help us out much more with this deficiency than Robinson can. I'd still prefer to move Bud because of his more expensive contract, but in terms of what they can contribute on the court, Robbie and Bud can deliver more in more areas than GR3...better rebounders, outside shooters and distributors. Don't get me wrong...I think GR3 can be a nice end-of-the-bench guy. I just don't want us to make him into something he just hasn't shown himself to be, in college or SL.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:03 am
by Monster
I'll step away from being a GR3 homer and add this. Getting a 20 year old rookie that played a legit role on a very successful college team and happens to have a nice pedigree in the 2nd round is exactly how you build up a good team. He is cheap does have some talent and he absolutely doesn't looks to be a player this year but could develop later to be a worthwhile player at some point. Sure the odds are against him but that's not the point. The point is cheap young talent is great to add no matter where your franchise is and GR3 fits that exactly. Maybe he becomes a guy with the impact of a healthy Bud. Maybe he becomes a legit starter.
-Homer hat back on-
Even before the Wiggins trade I had reasonable expectations for GR3 and now adding Wiggins and realizing LaVine looks a lot more legit I don't know where GR3 fits long-term. I'd still like to keep him around in case someone or multiple guys falter. Its fun to have so many young promising wings on the team. I really don't worry about him not having a spot on the roster this year. Something will work out or maybe he signs a deal overseas. Part of me thinks that's the best case scenario for the Wolves but Wolfson said weeks ago that wasn't something GR3's camp was really interested in. We will see. Hummel's situation was different but it seemed to work out well for him. We will know more after the Wiggins Love trade goes thru.
Re: Is there a future here for Pek
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:13 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
slimcalhoun27 wrote:60WinTim wrote:slimcalhoun27 wrote:Good points all around! I think we have three positions covered right now if not 4.
Rubio. Mo,
Martin, Lavine, GR3
Wiggins, Brewer, Shabazz
????, Bennett,
Pek, Dieng, Turiaf
My question is how can we move Barea, Shved, Budinger etc etc to make this roster filled out? Who are we going to have to sacrifice and...can we keep guys like Pek, Martin, Brewer to do so? Because IMO, Williams, Martin, Brewer, Pek and Turiaf are all very important assets and very important at there contract levels.
Where have you been, Slim?
While not as clear as the Love trade, the common thinking is Barea, Luc and the 1st round pick from the Love trade will go to Philly in exchange for Young, who will be our starting PF. I'm still doubtful GR3 will be signed this year, unless Shabazz is traded...
Good Question Tim! ha haha....I have been like a cat, observing from a distance surveying the terrain from a safe spot. BEen missing you dudes.
Too many crazy things going on and being a Wolves fan has me spinning in circles....but I must say, I am intrigued. And the last thing I would have ever said is "We may have too much depth and not enough superior, logical starting talent"
This is a Pek topic point, and I want to try to stay on point. I must say this, by living in Portland now for 7 years, the dynamic of the league, especially the West is changing quickly. I believe losing Love in this trade may end up being the best thing to happen to the Wolves in over a decade. Pek will be a huge factor for us, and losing him would be catestrophic. Portland hit it rich with Lillard, and I feel Wiggings can be our Lillard type talent going forward. That is just my thoughts. Especially as well as Dieng was last year, as we all know it takes time for Centers to develop and gain the weight, strength and IQ needed to compete. He will be a stud.
Do we actually think we can trade Barea, LRM and filler for Young? Lastly, I agree Tim, we have a log jam at SF, and GR3 is talented, but Shabazz needed to either play or be in the D league most the season, and I believe either we need to move Bud and free up more space or Robinson is a casualty of too plump of a roster. Hate to see that!
Lastly, as much as I like GR3....does anyone seriously believe that he will become a solid if not better NBA talent. I know most of us want him aboard, but I think the days are over and need to be over in regards to Quantity over Quality. We have a roster nearly filled with mid level talent....Its time to address this seriously and secure a bench, but also go after as best we can with a new image and a new face of the future in Wiggins. Hoping it draws talent and established players. TBD
Good take, slim, and thanks for trying to get us back to the thread topic of Pek! I have to disagree with your comment that losing Pek would be catastrophic. While I agree that Dieng may take some time to develop and will likely be a better player in his third year than his second, what are we really losing if he becomes our starting center next year? Most of us already have the Wolves pegged for 25-30 wins...would losing Pek really decrease that win total by that much? And even if it did, would that really be so bad? It's a rebuilding year anyway, and 22 wins would mean a better draft pick. There's very little downside here.
I don't disagree that Pek will probably be one of our most important players next year, but I don't think anyone is talking about giving him up for nothing. And perhaps what we get back in return would make the Wolves better. A straight up trade for Paul Millsap has been discussed, so let's consider that as a possibility. Wouldn't a 4-5 combination of Dieng-Millsap be at least as good as Pek-Young? I would argue that because of rebounding and interior defense issues (both rank in the bottom five in the league), a Pek-Young combination is a very dangerous way to approach the season.
I understand that Atlanta might not be willing to trade Millsap for Pek, but that's the kind of deal I would endorse. I am not a proponent of letting Pek go for someone that provides much less value...we'd be better off keeping him.