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Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:31 pm
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
alexftbl8181 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote::)
alexftbl8181 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Long - I think you're right about Ricky's potential. But I'd still say he is clearly a top 15 PG right now. I think these other rankings tens to undervalue stats like steals, rebounds and assists. I don't consider steals peripheral. In face I recall an article last year that made a compelling analytical case for putting a very high value on steals. Steals and rebounds mean possessions - limiting the other team's and increasing your own team's. To be top 5 in both steals and rebounds at your position is a very big deal. And assists are clearly not peripheral to the PG position. In fact, that stat goes right to the core of the position. So here's my current ranking, which still seriously punishes Ricky for his shooting deficiencies:
1. Chris Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Tony Parker
5. Derrick Rose
6. Dragic - although I'm not sure he's a PG
7. Mike Conley
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Damian Lillard
11. Ricky Rubio
I think Lowry and Irving are ahead of Rubio as well
There's no question that offense is overvalued in these rankings and that defense is barely considered. That's probably the reason for much of the disparity between how Rubio is ranked by the national media and how he is ranked on this board, although I don't believe homerism can be discounted as a factor either :) . Alex mentions Irving as being superior to Rubio, and I would guess that 90% of national pundits would agree. But Irving defensively is the PG equivalent of the PF that he mow teams with, so I think I would rather have Rubio as my PG.
It is but to be fair, none of those guys listed are as bad at defense as Rubio is offense
With the game on the line would you rather rely on Rubio's offense or Stephen Curry's defense?
Curry's D 100/100 times
It depends...is Ricky shooting or passing? His shooting at the end of close games is absurdly bad according to 82games.com, but his assist rate at crunch time is very good. I still think I have to go with Curry's defense though. I think he has always been an average defender, but new Warriors defensive coach Ron Adams says he is an improving defender, and even has potential
to be a very good defender.
Now if the question were Rubio's offense vs. Irving or Lilliard's defense, I'm going with Rubio.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:07 am
by Phenom
Offense is shooting or setting up a teammate/running a play. I'd take Ricky running a play 100/100 because he's great at it over most of those guys playing D. No question. The only reason to disagree is that this scenario means the Wolves are losing if they need Ricky to create a score vs winning and needing a stop. Obviously you should always choose a lead but the idea is to compare Ricky's offense vs the other players D. It is absurd to say Ricky's offense is worse than those players D. . .unless shooting is your only criteria for offense.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:44 am
by Phenom
Is Rubio really bad at offense or is that a misnomer? I feel like the Wolves sorely missed his offense down the stretch tonight.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:56 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Is Rubio really bad at offense or is that a misnomer? I feel like the Wolves sorely missed his offense down the stretch tonight.
Most teams are going to struggle without their starter PG. And yes he is bad at offense. He can be bad at offense but still be better then Mo Williams
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:44 pm
by Phenom
alexftbl8181 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Is Rubio really bad at offense or is that a misnomer? I feel like the Wolves sorely missed his offense down the stretch tonight.
Most teams are going to struggle without their starter PG. And yes he is bad at offense. He can be bad at offense but still be better then Mo Williams
I guess I just dont understand what you mean by bad at offense then. I am mystified actually.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:48 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Is Rubio really bad at offense or is that a misnomer? I feel like the Wolves sorely missed his offense down the stretch tonight.
Most teams are going to struggle without their starter PG. And yes he is bad at offense. He can be bad at offense but still be better then Mo Williams
I guess I just dont understand what you mean by bad at offense then. I am mystified actually.
Rubio shot 18% last year in the 4th quarter. That number indicates bad offense.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:04 pm
by Phenom
alexftbl8181 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Is Rubio really bad at offense or is that a misnomer? I feel like the Wolves sorely missed his offense down the stretch tonight.
Most teams are going to struggle without their starter PG. And yes he is bad at offense. He can be bad at offense but still be better then Mo Williams
I guess I just dont understand what you mean by bad at offense then. I am mystified actually.
Rubio shot 18% last year in the 4th quarter. That number indicates bad offense.
Ok now I understand where you are coming from then. In light of that, I stick by what I said.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:21 pm
by Carlos Danger
alexftbl8181 wrote:Rubio shot 18% last year in the 4th quarter. That number indicates bad offense.
I'd call that bad shooting - not bad offense. While I don't think anyone would argue with you that Rubio has historically not been a great shooter, he does many, many other things really well. Last year he was top 5 in qualified PG for Rebounds, steals, Assists and Assist to Turnover. Then there are the intangibles...like Flip stating when Rubio left the game it was like letting the air out of a balloon. He brings a competitive fire that this team really needs.
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:29 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
Carlos Danger wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:Rubio shot 18% last year in the 4th quarter. That number indicates bad offense.
I'd call that bad shooting - not bad offense. While I don't think anyone would argue with you that Rubio has historically not been a great shooter, he does many, many other things really well. Last year he was top 5 in qualified PG for Rebounds, steals, Assists and Assist to Turnover. Then there are the intangibles...like Flip stating when Rubio left the game it was like letting the air out of a balloon. He brings a competitive fire that this team really needs.
so then we can't call Love a bad defender then because he's one of the best rebounders in the NBA which is a part of defense
Re: Rubio signed!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:45 pm
by Carlos Danger
alexftbl8181 wrote:so then we can't call Love a bad defender then because he's one of the best rebounders in the NBA which is a part of defense
I agree with you that people should consider Love's rebounding when determining if he's a good defender or not. But back to Rubio, the point I was trying to make was the PG's job includes so many other things in addition to scoring. I think most would agree (and the stats confirm) that Rubio creates a lot of points with his passing. That's why I wouldn't go so far as to say he's bad at offense. Love and defense is a whole other thread, so I won't even start on it here.