Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:I guess the devil is in the details. quote]

I think you hit it on the head with that comment. I'm sure part of it is just tongue and cheek/fun. But part of it is serious too. Nobody wants guys jacking up threes if they can't demonstrate they are capable of a decent percentage. And I think Bennett was definitely one of the guys who Flip wants to prove he's qualified. I'm sure there are concerns about scoring with Love gone. Being patient and setting up higher percentage shots should be encouraged and rewarded! JJ as an example looked much better last night waiting/creating vs. chucking up a bunch of long range shots as he's been prone to do in the past.

bleedspeed177 wrote:I think we are going to see lots of match up type rotations. Last night Flip started Shabazz at SG to match up with the freak. I think you will see a lot of fresh bodies this year. He might play only 10 guys a night, but one night that someone might play 20 minutes a game and the next night not play at all based mostly on matchups. I am not sure if that means the starters will get mixed up or just the reserves. I really think this team will go as far as Rubio and Pek take it. They really setup everything for everyone else. Pek is just so strong and Rubio knows how to set him up. They make a great combo on the floor.

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

60WinTim wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:Rubio 6 assists and JJ with 7. Five guys in double figures scoring. They really spread it around now without Love.

This. The reason I know we are going to be .500+ is because we have the talent to spread around Love's production. And while we may not totally replace his offensive efficiency, the defensive effort this squad is able to exert completely squashes that one negative.

Tim, is there any room on this .500+ bandwagon if I sit in the back? The last two nights have really made me look at this team in a new light, with two almost 20 point victories. Granted it's only pre-season and our opponents were not very good, but to me it seemed like our opponents were playing the game like a regular season game...playing their healthy players rather than selectively resting them like Flip. But no matter who Flip put out there was effective. I saw a Wolves team playing unselfishly on the offensive side, hitting the boards much better than I would have expected, and being totally disruptive on defense. It's fun to watch the joy on the bench as they watch their teammates. Thad Young has been a terrific acquisition to the roster as a teammate. He seems to keep things loose, and has even brought Pek out of his shell. It's fun to watch the normally quiet Pek yukking it up on the bench with Thad, Ronny, Corey and Mo. It's not that they are not interested in the game, because they are watching intently. They're just keeping everyone loose. It's a big difference from last year when the team generally played in a joyless and tight fashion. I think Flip, Thad and Mo have made a big impact on the personality of this team.

The West is still a brutally tough conference, and there will be a lot of losses as this team develops. I hope they don't lose the personality they are showing now when the inevitable losses come, but rather continue to play loose. They are going to be a lot of fun to watch, and should blow away that 26 1/2 wins over/under.

I think you and Tim are still too optimistic. It's still only preseason games.

The number 1 positive takeaway in preseason for me is that we have remained healthy. If we can come out of preseason without any major injuries or health setbacks, that is success in my book.

Carlos Danger wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I guess the devil is in the details. quote]

I think you hit it on the head with that comment. I'm sure part of it is just tongue and cheek/fun. But part of it is serious too. Nobody wants guys jacking up threes if they can't demonstrate they are capable of a decent percentage. And I think Bennett was definitely one of the guys who Flip wants to prove he's qualified. I'm sure there are concerns about scoring with Love gone. Being patient and setting up higher percentage shots should be encouraged and rewarded! JJ as an example looked much better last night waiting/creating vs. chucking up a bunch of long range shots as he's been prone to do in the past.

OK, but how do you define a decent percentage? 33% on open 3-point shots is the exact same value as 50% on 2-point shots. Do you really think Anthony Bennett (to use an example of someone not in the club) is going to hit 50% of his long 2's, because if he does, he would be one of the greatest shooters in the NBA. Now do you think he can hit 33% of his 3's? That's actually not an unreasonable estimate.

I definitely agree with the portion of Flip's philosophy of "taking open shots". But some open shots are a hell of a lot better than others. If Flip is saying AB is not good enough to take open 3-pointers, than he certainly shouldn't be encouraged to take open 2-point jump shots. He should be told to post up, drive and do everything possible to attack the basket and get dunks, layups, and fouls. But it's silly to say that it's OK to hit 35% of your 2 point jumpers, but it's totally unacceptable to take 3 point shots that require a 50% lower threshold of accuracy to achieve the same number of points!

sjm34 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Did anyone else read the article via Startribune about Flip's 3 point club? It seems a little rigid but I really don't mind. Listening to what Flip was talking about getting good shots no matter where they are on the floor I now know for certain why George Karl didn't even get a phone call from Flip about the job.

Why? Last year Karl and Shaw argued last year about what was a good shot Shaw was saying get a good shot and that wildly jacking up 3's and driving to the rim wasn't good offense which is what Karl's basic premise was and then Karl got mad etc it went back and forth a bit. I thought Karl's offensive philosophy wasn't a fit with Flip but this absolutely confirms it. Personally I'm glad we didn't hire Karl despite his accomplishments. Notice nobody else hired him either despite A LOT of openings.

I'd be interested to know who so far is in Flip's 3 point club. Its probably no surprise who is and isn't in it. Its not set in stone so if there is someone not in it they can earn their way on. Sounds good to me.

I haven't read the article, but this is what worried me about Flip coming back. His system isn't built for the PO's. It is why the wolves struggled to get out of the first round for 7 years. Jump shooting teams only win when their shots are falling. Hopefully, we have enough athleticism to continue to draw fouls to offset the long 2's that Flip's system seems to embrace.

Karl doesn't believe in "wildly jacking up 3's", but he does realize that an open 3pt shot is a better shot than a long 2. He also realizes that driving to the hoop draws fouls, which accomplishes two things. Getting the other team into foul trouble, as well as getting to the line and scoring at a much more efficient rate.

Monster, I think Karl couldn't land a job due to his age and previous health issues, more than his offensive philosophy. It seems the league is embracing Karl's offense more each year.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

60WinTim wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:Rubio 6 assists and JJ with 7. Five guys in double figures scoring. They really spread it around now without Love.

This. The reason I know we are going to be .500+ is because we have the talent to spread around Love's production. And while we may not totally replace his offensive efficiency, the defensive effort this squad is able to exert completely squashes that one negative.

Tim, is there any room on this .500+ bandwagon if I sit in the back? The last two nights have really made me look at this team in a new light, with two almost 20 point victories. Granted it's only pre-season and our opponents were not very good, but to me it seemed like our opponents were playing the game like a regular season game...playing their healthy players rather than selectively resting them like Flip. But no matter who Flip put out there was effective. I saw a Wolves team playing unselfishly on the offensive side, hitting the boards much better than I would have expected, and being totally disruptive on defense. It's fun to watch the joy on the bench as they watch their teammates. Thad Young has been a terrific acquisition to the roster as a teammate. He seems to keep things loose, and has even brought Pek out of his shell. It's fun to watch the normally quiet Pek yukking it up on the bench with Thad, Ronny, Corey and Mo. It's not that they are not interested in the game, because they are watching intently. They're just keeping everyone loose. It's a big difference from last year when the team generally played in a joyless and tight fashion. I think Flip, Thad and Mo have made a big impact on the personality of this team.

The West is still a brutally tough conference, and there will be a lot of losses as this team develops. I hope they don't lose the personality they are showing now when the inevitable losses come, but rather continue to play loose. They are going to be a lot of fun to watch, and should blow away that 26 1/2 wins over/under.

I think you and Tim are still too optimistic. It's still only preseason games.

The number 1 positive takeaway in preseason for me is that we have remained healthy. If we can come out of preseason without any major injuries or health setbacks, that is success in my book.

Oh, I'm sure you're right about us being overly opTIMistic...it's my nature with the home team. I would say that 90% of the time I look at the preseason posted win total for the Wolves/Twins/Vikings and think that it is too low. And it's generally pretty accurate. Still, it's difficult not to be excited after two blowout wins, even if they are in pre-season and against weak teams.

I agree that relatively good health defines success right now, but after watching this team the past two games, I have two other big takeaways. One, Flip has them playing consistently harder than last year's level, especially on defense. Even Kevin Martin was hustling on D Tuesday night, even though it was a meaningless preseason game. And two, this team has much better chemistry than last year. The addition of Young, Williams and Flip combined with the subtraction of Love and Adelman has the team playing with a lot more joy than we saw last year. Can they keep the good chemistry if they start the year 10-20? I don't know. But I like what I'm seeing on the court and bench right now.

bleedspeed177 wrote:I think we are going to see lots of match up type rotations. Last night Flip started Shabazz at SG to match up with the freak. I think you will see a lot of fresh bodies this year. He might play only 10 guys a night, but one night that someone might play 20 minutes a game and the next night not play at all based mostly on matchups. I am not sure if that means the starters will get mixed up or just the reserves. I really think this team will go as far as Rubio and Pek take it. They really setup everything for everyone else. Pek is just so strong and Rubio knows how to set him up. They make a great combo on the floor.

Q12543 wrote:OK, but how do you define a decent percentage? 33% on open 3-point shots is the exact same value as 50% on 2-point shots. Do you really think Anthony Bennett (to use an example of someone not in the club) is going to hit 50% of his long 2's, because if he does, he would be one of the greatest shooters in the NBA. Now do you think he can hit 33% of his 3's? That's actually not an unreasonable estimate.

I definitely agree with the portion of Flip's philosophy of "taking open shots". But some open shots are a hell of a lot better than others. If Flip is saying AB is not good enough to take open 3-pointers, than he certainly shouldn't be encouraged to take open 2-point jump shots. He should be told to post up, drive and do everything possible to attack the basket and get dunks, layups, and fouls. But it's silly to say that it's OK to hit 35% of your 2 point jumpers, but it's totally unacceptable to take 3 point shots that require a 50% lower threshold of accuracy to achieve the same number of points!