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Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:44 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
FNG wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:19 am
Jaden is at 51.4/35.1 including last night's abysmal showing - He's not the problem offensively. Yeah he had a terrible night, it happens.
I agree that Jaden is not a big problem offensively, and with what he provides every night on defense, he is about as valuable a 5th starter as any player in the league.
I liken him to Herbert Jones, who also doesn't rebound or score very much, but draws the toughest defensive assignment every night, and shoots efficiently when he does shoot. Yeah, Jaden hurt us last night, but it was far from a typical night for him. And I really loved his defense in the 4th quarter.
Here's the rub...
Both players are signed through the next 4 years (or more)... and Herb Jones will be making about 1/2 of what Jaden McDaniels is making.
This is even more telling when you consider the financial plight the Wolves are about to face with the luxury tax/2nd apron.
Jones: 10.7 ppg / 3.7 reb / 2.5 ast / 47.2% fg / 35.4% 3fg
McDaniels: 10.4 ppg / 2.2 reb / 1.2 ast / 51.4% / 35.1% 3fg
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:44 pm
by Q-is-here
FNG wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:19 am
Jaden is at 51.4/35.1 including last night's abysmal showing - He's not the problem offensively. Yeah he had a terrible night, it happens.
I agree that Jaden is not a big problem offensively, and with what he provides every night on defense, he is about as valuable a 5th starter as any player in the league. I liken him to Herbert Jones, who also doesn't rebound or score very much, but draws the toughest defensive assignment every night, and shoots efficiently when he does shoot. Yeah, Jaden hurt us last night, but it was far from a typical night for him. And I really loved his defense in the 4th quarter.
My larger concern with Jaden is that if he is truly a cornerstone in the "second window" along with Ant, then we need a lot more from him than being like Herbert Jones. He absolutely is a high level role player currently, but we need to see him evolve into more of an all-around great player. It feels like he hasn't really evolved much this year.
Edit: I just saw Abe's post which reinforces this point. His contract was in anticipation of further progression, which seemed fair given his age and on going development up to that point. But now where is the progression?
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:16 pm
by FNG
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:44 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:25 pm
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:19 am
Jaden is at 51.4/35.1 including last night's abysmal showing - He's not the problem offensively. Yeah he had a terrible night, it happens.
I agree that Jaden is not a big problem offensively, and with what he provides every night on defense, he is about as valuable a 5th starter as any player in the league. I liken him to Herbert Jones, who also doesn't rebound or score very much, but draws the toughest defensive assignment every night, and shoots efficiently when he does shoot. Yeah, Jaden hurt us last night, but it was far from a typical night for him. And I really loved his defense in the 4th quarter.
My larger concern with Jaden is that if he is truly a cornerstone in the "second window" along with Ant, then we need a lot more from him than being like Herbert Jones. He absolutely is a high level role player currently, but we need to see him evolve into more of an all-around great player. It feels like he hasn't really evolved much this year.
Edit: I just saw Abe's post which reinforces this point. His contract was in anticipation of further progression, which seemed fair given his age and on going development up to that point. But now where is the progression?
Jaden should be sending roses to his agent every year, and Herb Jones should be TPing his agent's yard every night...the disparity in their contracts is ridiculous. Both are exceptional defenders who I don't think will ever be counted on to carry the load for a team offensively. The Pelicans really got a deal when they signed Jones.
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:42 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Jaden had better numbers last year, and at the age of 23 I really don't expect his progression to stop or go backward. It would be unusual for that to happen. I think the biggest problem for him is the fouls. It's limiting his time on the court (down to 27mpg) and making him less aggressive. His fouls occur in one of three ways:
1) A quick whistle from the officials which I really don't get
2) High effort, he competes on every defensive possession and gets too aggressive
3) Stupidity. Some of his fouls are just mind numbingly stupid, senseless acts where he looks like he's actually trying to commit a foul.
One thing I've noticed is when he's in the proper defensive stance he's fine. It's when he comes out of that stance and tries to body up on a player driving to the basket he gets in trouble.
I fully expect him to eventually become and All-NBA defender and average 18ppg. Anything less than that would be a disappointment. But I get where people are starting to lose some patience, we all want everything to click right now.
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:20 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:42 pm
Jaden had better numbers last year, and at the age of 23 I really don't expect his progression to stop or go backward. It would be unusual for that to happen. I think the biggest problem for him is the fouls. It's limiting his time on the court (down to 27mpg) and making him less aggressive. His fouls occur in one of three ways:
1) A quick whistle from the officials which I really don't get
2) High effort, he competes on every defensive possession and gets too aggressive
3) Stupidity. Some of his fouls are just mind numbingly stupid, senseless acts where he looks like he's actually trying to commit a foul.
One thing I've noticed is when he's in the proper defensive stance he's fine. It's when he comes out of that stance and tries to body up on a player driving to the basket he gets in trouble.
I fully expect him to eventually become and All-NBA defender and average 18ppg. Anything less than that would be a disappointment. But I get where people are starting to lose some patience, we all want everything to click right now.
Basketball is one of those sports where most of the best players show a natural progression from one year to the next for the first few years of a career. It's not 100% certain... but it can raise eyebrows, especially after a new contract is inked.
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:02 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Jaden ranks last among the rotational players in touches per game, and trails only Ant & KAT in points per touch. He's kind of tapped out offensively until the scheme involves him more. That being said we really don't run a 5 man offense. It's Conley facilitating for Ant, KAT, and Rudy. Jaden is left to fight for scraps. Actually we don't run much offense at all. We space the court and run high pick and rolls, or Ant/KAT try to take their man individually.
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:53 pm
by kekgeek
Finch says this a lot but Jaden scoring is a promoter of how the wolves do. Wolves are 49-75 when Jaden scores under 10 pts and 67-46 when scoring 10 or more points. 9-3 when he scores 20.
He’s such a key piece to the wolves success. I do wish we ran late game offense for him more
Re: Wolves at Mavs GDT
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:19 pm
by Coolbreeze44
kekgeek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:53 pm
Finch says this a lot but Jaden scoring is a promoter of how the wolves do. Wolves are 49-75 when Jaden scores under 10 pts and 67-46 when scoring 10 or more points. 9-3 when he scores 20.
He’s such a key piece to the wolves success. I do wish we ran late game offense for him more
If that's true than it would be simple to say get him more involved. There are games where he won't touch the ball for 10 trips down the court. And now we have Ant pledging to take more shots. It doesn't sound like Finch has control of this situation.