Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:21 am**

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:48 am Conspiracy theories are man's way of coping with outcomes we don't like.

Very true, Q. And I would add that blaming someone else (i.e the refs) is also a way of coping with an outcome we don't like, and I'm guilty of this one. I thought the refs stole the game from us because of their horrible calls Friday night (not because they were betting on the outcome)...I was throwing things at the TV all night. But in reality, we lost that game because nobody except Naz could hit an open three. But I'm a homer, and in the moment blaming the refs helped me cope.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:30 am**

FNG wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:16 am Fair points, Anthony, and you raise another issue critical to the Wolves: is Ant liked or disliked by the refs? As much as we love him, I think it's clear that the refs don't. I thought the tech foul against him Friday night for flexing was ridiculous. But I think he's more likely to not get calls (or get called for a tech) because he is constantly criticizing the refs. Refs are a tight group, and they talk together. And I suspect one of the topics is what players respect them the least. And Ant complaining EVERY time he drives to the basket and a foul isn't called doesn't make the refs like him. Nobody likes it when someone says they are bad at their job, and Ant says it more than almost anyone in the Association. He needs to "change his face", or the refs are going to continue to target him.

100%. It's about earning that respect. Rudy doing his "money" thing and bitching about refs isn't going to endear him to any of the refs for future calls. Is that fair? Nope. Is that life? Yep. In the words of Tony Soprano..."If you want to get respect, you have to give respect." That goes for Towns, Rudy and Edwards. Too much complaining. Just play.

People with authority have discretion. My experience is I'm more likely to get a warning from a cop for speeding if I'm polite vs. being argumentative. I find the same when dealing with superiors at work or my teachers back when I was in school etc. Give respect, get respect. Try being a dick to the waiter/waitress next time you are out...see what sort of special sauce comes with your re-done food.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:13 am**

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:30 am
FNG wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:16 am Fair points, Anthony, and you raise another issue critical to the Wolves: is Ant liked or disliked by the refs? As much as we love him, I think it's clear that the refs don't. I thought the tech foul against him Friday night for flexing was ridiculous. But I think he's more likely to not get calls (or get called for a tech) because he is constantly criticizing the refs. Refs are a tight group, and they talk together. And I suspect one of the topics is what players respect them the least. And Ant complaining EVERY time he drives to the basket and a foul isn't called doesn't make the refs like him. Nobody likes it when someone says they are bad at their job, and Ant says it more than almost anyone in the Association. He needs to "change his face", or the refs are going to continue to target him.
100%. It's about earning that respect. Rudy doing his "money" thing and bitching about refs isn't going to endear him to any of the refs for future calls. Is that fair? Nope. Is that life? Yep. In the words of Tony Soprano..."If you want to get respect, you have to give respect." That goes for Towns, Rudy and Edwards. Too much complaining. Just play.

People with authority have discretion. My experience is I'm more likely to get a warning from a cop for speeding if I'm polite vs. being argumentative. I find the same when dealing with superiors at work or my teachers back when I was in school etc. Give respect, get respect. Try being a dick to the waiter/waitress next time you are out...see what sort of special sauce comes with your re-done food.

But I thought the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:26 am**

60WinTim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:13 am But I thought the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Ha-ha! Yes. That does happen sometimes. But I think like all things in life - there is a middle ground. The constant complainers seem to eventually just be tuned out. I find you are heard more if you speak less.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:41 pm**

FNG wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:21 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:48 am Conspiracy theories are man's way of coping with outcomes we don't like.
Very true, Q. And I would add that blaming someone else (i.e the refs) is also a way of coping with an outcome we don't like, and I'm guilty of this one. I thought the refs stole the game from us because of their horrible calls Friday night (not because they were betting on the outcome)...I was throwing things at the TV all night. But in reality, we lost that game because nobody except Naz could hit an open three. But I'm a homer, and in the moment blaming the refs helped me cope.

In general I 100% agree with all of you. It’s a way for fans to cope. However there is still significant more juice around Foster.

“The initial report showed the following call log from the day of Dec. 30, 2006:

10:34 a.m. – Donaghy calls Foster.
10:35 a.m. – Donaghy calls another referee.
10:36 a.m. – Donaghy calls [Thomas] Martino, the "middleman" between him and his bookie.
10:39 a.m. – Donaghy calls Foster.
5:15 p.m. – Donaghy calls Martino.
5:23 p.m. – Donaghy calls Martino.
7 p.m. – Donaghy referees game between the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic. The Magic win in a rout, 97-68.
8 p.m. – Foster referees a game between the Toronto Raptors and the Memphis Grizzlies in Memphis. The Grizzlies win 110-104. Foster and Donaghy speak 12 minutes after the game.
11:27 p.m. – Foster and Donaghy speak for at least the fourth time of the day.
11:38 p.m. – Foster and Donaghy speak for at least the fifth time of the day.

The records also showed Donaghy making several calls to Foster on the days of games, generally for no more than two minutes.

The report also said that when Donaghy called Foster, he mostly used the phone that he dedicated to gambling-related phone calls, and the phone calls stopped abruptly when Donaghy said he stopped gambling.

"The only thing I'd say is that I love being an NBA referee," Foster said in November 2008 while trying to clear his name“

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:05 pm**

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:41 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:21 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:48 am Conspiracy theories are man's way of coping with outcomes we don't like.
Very true, Q. And I would add that blaming someone else (i.e the refs) is also a way of coping with an outcome we don't like, and I'm guilty of this one. I thought the refs stole the game from us because of their horrible calls Friday night (not because they were betting on the outcome)...I was throwing things at the TV all night. But in reality, we lost that game because nobody except Naz could hit an open three. But I'm a homer, and in the moment blaming the refs helped me cope.
In general I 100% agree with all of you. It’s a way for fans to cope. However there is still significant more juice around Foster.

“The initial report showed the following call log from the day of Dec. 30, 2006:

10:34 a.m. – Donaghy calls Foster.
10:35 a.m. – Donaghy calls another referee.
10:36 a.m. – Donaghy calls [Thomas] Martino, the "middleman" between him and his bookie.
10:39 a.m. – Donaghy calls Foster.
5:15 p.m. – Donaghy calls Martino.
5:23 p.m. – Donaghy calls Martino.
7 p.m. – Donaghy referees game between the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic. The Magic win in a rout, 97-68.
8 p.m. – Foster referees a game between the Toronto Raptors and the Memphis Grizzlies in Memphis. The Grizzlies win 110-104. Foster and Donaghy speak 12 minutes after the game.
11:27 p.m. – Foster and Donaghy speak for at least the fourth time of the day.
11:38 p.m. – Foster and Donaghy speak for at least the fifth time of the day.

The records also showed Donaghy making several calls to Foster on the days of games, generally for no more than two minutes.

The report also said that when Donaghy called Foster, he mostly used the phone that he dedicated to gambling-related phone calls, and the phone calls stopped abruptly when Donaghy said he stopped gambling.

"The only thing I'd say is that I love being an NBA referee," Foster said in November 2008 while trying to clear his name“

That's from a long time ago and the NBA has probably been reviewing his work since then. Don't you think with all that smoke that he would be heavily monitored?

BTW, that doesn't mean he's a good official. He may be corrupt in a different way, meaning he lets personal biases get in the way of how he refs certain players or teams. But that's different than being part of some vast premeditated conspiracy or getting paid off by an outside 3rd party.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:09 pm**

(queue scene of Foster playing high-stakes craps in Monaco in the offseason with a Russian billionaire)

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:24 pm**

FNG wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:21 am
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:48 am Conspiracy theories are man's way of coping with outcomes we don't like.
Very true, Q. And I would add that blaming someone else (i.e the refs) is also a way of coping with an outcome we don't like, and I'm guilty of this one. I thought the refs stole the game from us because of their horrible calls Friday night (not because they were betting on the outcome)...I was throwing things at the TV all night. But in reality, we lost that game because nobody except Naz could hit an open three. But I'm a homer, and in the moment blaming the refs helped me cope.

There are nights when I say the refs favored the Wolves or other teams I like. I call it like I see it no matter what. Sure refs can simply make bad calls, but some are so egregious you really have to wonder. Not to mention guys like Foster have already been called out like in the Netflix doc. You really do not know what is going on. To just say "conspiracy theory" doesn't also make it untrue either. There could be corruption because it's happened before in every big sport and it's easy for it to happen. They have no real oversight like I said which would make cheating much harder. Nor does the NBA really want to expose it (negative publicity) unless things continue to get worse and fans simply vote with their pocketbooks (not watching / going to games).

In fact I would way rather believe that the games are completely officiated fairly. But that would be naive of me to think. I would rather say oh the officials just had a bad night. I think in the end some people would rather not consider anything other then what they are told to believe. It's easier thats for sure.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:00 pm**

I'm 100% convinced the NBA has orchestrated games and playoff series'. I think it was especially bad in the 1980's when Stern was trying to build the NBA into a viable product. Remember, in the late 70's even some playoff games would be broadcast on tape delay, it just wasn't a thriving league. Last years Laker run to the playoffs not withstanding, I think the integrity is much better than it was in the 80's and 90's. Now the league is established and doesn't need the Celtics and Lakers in the finals to generate interest. The pandemic had a greater effect on ratings than the teams involved.

I don't know why Foster screwed us the other night, but I doubt he had $$ on the game. I also don't think the league put any pressure on the outcome. But it HAS happened and I'm happy the players don't just accept the corruption like they used to.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:59 pm**

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:00 pm I'm 100% convinced the NBA has orchestrated games and playoff series'. I think it was especially bad in the 1980's when Stern was trying to build the NBA into a viable product. Remember, in the late 70's even some playoff games would be broadcast on tape delay, it just wasn't a thriving league. Last years Laker run to the playoffs not withstanding, I think the integrity is much better than it was in the 80's and 90's. Now the league is established and doesn't need the Celtics and Lakers in the finals to generate interest. The pandemic had a greater effect on ratings than the teams involved.

I don't know why Foster screwed us the other night, but I doubt he had $$ on the game. I also don't think the league put any pressure on the outcome. But it HAS happened and I'm happy the players don't just accept the corruption like they used to.

We don't really know and we cannot trust the product either because they have weak oversight. Sure the fans and players can bitch and question but how many do? The players are getting paid and for Rudy to make a statement with his hand gesture, I agree, it's smart. Put pressure on them. It shows they want to win above all else.

Also on Foster. I don't really care that he makes 550K a year. Some people are greedy bastards and it doesn't matter how much they have. They want more and more and are never satisfied. Just think of the power trip one could be on too. Being able to swing games just yourself AND get away with it! You need to start firing bad officials to weed out poor and corrupt ones. That is the only solution. Like I said, the NBA likely won't because of potential negative pub. If Foster is or was involved (which is probable IMO) they want him in the fold as long as they can and keep the money rolling in. It's just smart "business".

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