So What's Your Plan? The Offseason Roster Construction Thread

[rapsuperstar31]

You guys are much higher on Fox than I am. He’s not much bigger than Rob, and not as good a shooter. And while I’m higher on Rob than many here, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns out to be much better than Fox. My preference is to see what we have with Rob rather than trading our starting PF to obtain his replacement.

I hope you're right. if Rob is better than Fox one day, our team is all set other than drafting Rudy's eventual replacement in this upcoming draft.

[FNG]

You guys are much higher on Fox than I am. He’s not much bigger than Rob, and not as good a shooter. And while I’m higher on Rob than many here, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns out to be much better than Fox. My preference is to see what we have with Rob rather than trading our starting PF to obtain his replacement.

I hope you're right. if Rob is better than Fox one day, our team is all set other than drafting Rudy's eventual replacement in this upcoming draft.

Keep in mind, Cypress, I've never been a big fan of Fox's, so for me it isn't a high bar to say that I think Rob will be better than him. He's quick...I'll give him that. But I don't know that he is quicker than Rob. Rob's per 40 numbers at Kentucky were better across the board, and especially in TS% because of his far superior 3-point shooting. And while Fox started his rookie season and Rob only got spot minutes when he was healthy, their per 36 numbers were comparable (and yes, I recognize that a lot of Rob's minutes were garbage time, so maybe their respective 20 year old stats are not so relevant). I have a pretty high confidence level that Rob will become a better pro than Fox, and will never be traded for Zach Lavine! (OK, and picks).

[AussieWolf3]

Hey all, been reading on the site for a minute, but here's my first post.

The wolves upcoming off-season has been quite a ear worm in my head since game 5 so I figured I'd unload some of those thoughts, cause there just so many franchise altering directions thing could go.
As a side note, I would really recommend the latest Dane Moore episode with Britt- they discuss Randle and Naz but the most interesting portion of the episode was probably of them talking about Ant.

Anyway I believe going forward the Wolves need to operate with two nonnegotiable axioms
1) Jaden and Ant are the two most important players on this team
2) every move and every decision should be based on maximizing their strengths and putting them in the best positions to succeed.

I am aware those are fairly reductive and obvious, but I want to start there because I don't believe that team has necessarily operated that way the last few years and that is fine because they have been to two WCFs and have played in 40 playoff games. That experience has been invaluable to their development.
Rudy raised the teams floor and has been instrumental in getting them to the finals
Randle (but really moving KAT) gave the team the roster flexibility it needed to shift the roster this summer.

However it is now time for Ant and Jaden to be the floor raisers and the lead this team and that roster flexibility need to be paid off.

I'm not very knowledgeable of my basketball X and Os, so I'd be happy to get feedback regarding this but I believe this team needs to shift Jaden to being an off ball defender primarily (he has shown flashes of brilliance at this) and they need to get him out of the bleeping corners on offense.

Regarding Ant, I agree with the general consensus that a upgrade at PG is something the team needs and dynamic table setter would get a lot out of Ant, however, I don't really get how the team achieves that. Most of the options are either sub par (Fox and company) or too expensive (Giannis). Derrick White would be a great fit on this team, but he is also a bit expensive and on the old side. I'd be OK with Fox because the potential with him and Ant in the front court is ridiculous, and Giannis would be great too but idk how they too that without completely strip mining the roster.

So having said that, I believe the PG upgrade is on the team already and it's Ant. I know he would have to grow to get their but there are many many instances of him having a great command of the offense and showing a lot of direction. Game 1 of the Lakers series was exemplary by him- he didn't score at lot, but he played with such control and knew exactly where to go with the ball. And at half time even he was telling his team mates where they needed to be so he could get them the ball.

The other game that showed me a lot was actually, surprisingly, Game 5 against the thunder. Ant only had 3 assist, but was credited with 9 potential assist and had the game been more competitive he probably get more. Beyond the stats however he was doing such a great job early in the game of breaking the paint and setting people up- they just couldn't cash in.

Either way this will require quite a bit of growth from Ant in working the middle of the floor and he needs to figure out PnR with Rudy (I also think Jaden needs to be used more as a lob threat). But I think he can do that former and I hope he can do the later.

So that's how I feel about those two. I don't have great answers regarding Ju and Naz, and personally of the three Naw is the one I want to keep the most.
I love Naz's offense but defensively he just has to be better, however, Finch hasn't done him a lot of favors by having him play backup center minutes. He's not a bleeping center, he's a strech 3/4 with an incredible post game. I'd be OK with him coming back but the team needs to, like the Jaden and Ant, do more to maximize him. Stop asking for sacrifice and put guys in their best position.

Julius really grew on me and I'm not going to let 3 games against a generational defense shift that too much. Since March the Wolves were a top 3 team in the league and Ju was a huuuuge part of that. The problem is he's terrible for Jaden and Naz. By that I mean he pushes them into rolls they should be disabused of going forward. Either way it's a really tough question to answer, cause i think there is very good chance that in the short term he gives this team a chance to win 55+ games in 25-26 if the last 25 games or whatever it was is a real and sustainable thing. Which I think it is.

But I don't think a team with Julius Randle as it's 2nd best offense option is a serious contender.

I've got more to say but that's it for now

[Q-is-here]

Hey all, been reading on the site for a minute, but here's my first post.

The wolves upcoming off-season has been quite a ear worm in my head since game 5 so I figured I'd unload some of those thoughts, cause there just so many franchise altering directions thing could go.
As a side note, I would really recommend the latest Dane Moore episode with Britt- they discuss Randle and Naz but the most interesting portion of the episode was probably of them talking about Ant.

Anyway I believe going forward the Wolves need to operate with two nonnegotiable axioms
1) Jaden and Ant are the two most important players on this team
2) every move and every decision should be based on maximizing their strengths and putting them in the best positions to succeed.

I am aware those are fairly reductive and obvious, but I want to start there because I don't believe that team has necessarily operated that way the last few years and that is fine because they have been to two WCFs and have played in 40 playoff games. That experience has been invaluable to their development.
Rudy raised the teams floor and has been instrumental in getting them to the finals
Randle (but really moving KAT) gave the team the roster flexibility it needed to shift the roster this summer.

However it is now time for Ant and Jaden to be the floor raisers and the lead this team and that roster flexibility need to be paid off.

I'm not very knowledgeable of my basketball X and Os, so I'd be happy to get feedback regarding this but I believe this team needs to shift Jaden to being an off ball defender primarily (he has shown flashes of brilliance at this) and they need to get him out of the bleeping corners on offense.

Regarding Ant, I agree with the general consensus that a upgrade at PG is something the team needs and dynamic table setter would get a lot out of Ant, however, I don't really get how the team achieves that. Most of the options are either sub par (Fox and company) or too expensive (Giannis). Derrick White would be a great fit on this team, but he is also a bit expensive and on the old side. I'd be OK with Fox because the potential with him and Ant in the front court is ridiculous, and Giannis would be great too but idk how they too that without completely strip mining the roster.

So having said that, I believe the PG upgrade is on the team already and it's Ant. I know he would have to grow to get their but there are many many instances of him having a great command of the offense and showing a lot of direction. Game 1 of the Lakers series was exemplary by him- he didn't score at lot, but he played with such control and knew exactly where to go with the ball. And at half time even he was telling his team mates where they needed to be so he could get them the ball.

The other game that showed me a lot was actually, surprisingly, Game 5 against the thunder. Ant only had 3 assist, but was credited with 9 potential assist and had the game been more competitive he probably get more. Beyond the stats however he was doing such a great job early in the game of breaking the paint and setting people up- they just couldn't cash in.

Either way this will require quite a bit of growth from Ant in working the middle of the floor and he needs to figure out PnR with Rudy (I also think Jaden needs to be used more as a lob threat). But I think he can do that former and I hope he can do the later.

So that's how I feel about those two. I don't have great answers regarding Ju and Naz, and personally of the three Naw is the one I want to keep the most.
I love Naz's offense but defensively he just has to be better, however, Finch hasn't done him a lot of favors by having him play backup center minutes. He's not a bleeping center, he's a strech 3/4 with an incredible post game. I'd be OK with him coming back but the team needs to, like the Jaden and Ant, do more to maximize him. Stop asking for sacrifice and put guys in their best position.

Julius really grew on me and I'm not going to let 3 games against a generational defense shift that too much. Since March the Wolves were a top 3 team in the league and Ju was a huuuuge part of that. The problem is he's terrible for Jaden and Naz. By that I mean he pushes them into rolls they should be disabused of going forward. Either way it's a really tough question to answer, cause i think there is very good chance that in the short term he gives this team a chance to win 55+ games in 25-26 if the last 25 games or whatever it was is a real and sustainable thing. Which I think it is.

But I don't think a team with Julius Randle as it's 2nd best offense option is a serious contender.

I've got more to say but that's it for now

Good stuff, looking forward to hearing more from you.

- Agree on Jaden moving off the ball more. One of the ideas I've floated which isn't all that original is make him our starting 4 and get someone like Clark to become our main point-of-attack defender, which he proved he's capable of doing. That probably necessitates keeping Rudy since we need his size and rebounding next to Jaden.

- On sliding Ant to PG, the issue remains the same: Who can be a release valve that can shift the defense and create offense when Ant gets doubled or blitzed? Whether Ant is our PG or not, it's the same problem. Randle was the answer until it all fell apart against OKC and I agree that he probably isn't the answer going forward if we want to win a title. It just so happens that the players that could be the answer are mostly PGs, including Rob Dillingham if we give him a couple years (which the front office may not want to wait on).

- Also agree on Naz. He isn't a Center and Randle was OK-ish at bodying up big guys, but is hardly a rim protector. I think looking at a guy like Kevon Looney this offseason would really help shore things up in the paint and give us an insurance policy in case Rudy gets hurt.

[AussieWolf3]

Hey all, been reading on the site for a minute, but here's my first post.

The wolves upcoming off-season has been quite a ear worm in my head since game 5 so I figured I'd unload some of those thoughts, cause there just so many franchise altering directions thing could go.
As a side note, I would really recommend the latest Dane Moore episode with Britt- they discuss Randle and Naz but the most interesting portion of the episode was probably of them talking about Ant.

Anyway I believe going forward the Wolves need to operate with two nonnegotiable axioms
1) Jaden and Ant are the two most important players on this team
2) every move and every decision should be based on maximizing their strengths and putting them in the best positions to succeed.

I am aware those are fairly reductive and obvious, but I want to start there because I don't believe that team has necessarily operated that way the last few years and that is fine because they have been to two WCFs and have played in 40 playoff games. That experience has been invaluable to their development.
Rudy raised the teams floor and has been instrumental in getting them to the finals
Randle (but really moving KAT) gave the team the roster flexibility it needed to shift the roster this summer.

However it is now time for Ant and Jaden to be the floor raisers and the lead this team and that roster flexibility need to be paid off.

I'm not very knowledgeable of my basketball X and Os, so I'd be happy to get feedback regarding this but I believe this team needs to shift Jaden to being an off ball defender primarily (he has shown flashes of brilliance at this) and they need to get him out of the bleeping corners on offense.

Regarding Ant, I agree with the general consensus that a upgrade at PG is something the team needs and dynamic table setter would get a lot out of Ant, however, I don't really get how the team achieves that. Most of the options are either sub par (Fox and company) or too expensive (Giannis). Derrick White would be a great fit on this team, but he is also a bit expensive and on the old side. I'd be OK with Fox because the potential with him and Ant in the front court is ridiculous, and Giannis would be great too but idk how they too that without completely strip mining the roster.

So having said that, I believe the PG upgrade is on the team already and it's Ant. I know he would have to grow to get their but there are many many instances of him having a great command of the offense and showing a lot of direction. Game 1 of the Lakers series was exemplary by him- he didn't score at lot, but he played with such control and knew exactly where to go with the ball. And at half time even he was telling his team mates where they needed to be so he could get them the ball.

The other game that showed me a lot was actually, surprisingly, Game 5 against the thunder. Ant only had 3 assist, but was credited with 9 potential assist and had the game been more competitive he probably get more. Beyond the stats however he was doing such a great job early in the game of breaking the paint and setting people up- they just couldn't cash in.

Either way this will require quite a bit of growth from Ant in working the middle of the floor and he needs to figure out PnR with Rudy (I also think Jaden needs to be used more as a lob threat). But I think he can do that former and I hope he can do the later.

So that's how I feel about those two. I don't have great answers regarding Ju and Naz, and personally of the three Naw is the one I want to keep the most.
I love Naz's offense but defensively he just has to be better, however, Finch hasn't done him a lot of favors by having him play backup center minutes. He's not a bleeping center, he's a strech 3/4 with an incredible post game. I'd be OK with him coming back but the team needs to, like the Jaden and Ant, do more to maximize him. Stop asking for sacrifice and put guys in their best position.

Julius really grew on me and I'm not going to let 3 games against a generational defense shift that too much. Since March the Wolves were a top 3 team in the league and Ju was a huuuuge part of that. The problem is he's terrible for Jaden and Naz. By that I mean he pushes them into rolls they should be disabused of going forward. Either way it's a really tough question to answer, cause i think there is very good chance that in the short term he gives this team a chance to win 55+ games in 25-26 if the last 25 games or whatever it was is a real and sustainable thing. Which I think it is.

But I don't think a team with Julius Randle as it's 2nd best offense option is a serious contender.

I've got more to say but that's it for now

Good stuff, looking forward to hearing more from you.

- Agree on Jaden moving off the ball more. One of the ideas I've floated which isn't all that original is make him our starting 4 and get someone like Clark to become our main point-of-attack defender, which he proved he's capable of doing. That probably necessitates keeping Rudy since we need his size and rebounding next to Jaden.

- On sliding Ant to PG, the issue remains the same: Who can be a release valve that can shift the defense and create offense when Ant gets doubled or blitzed? Whether Ant is our PG or not, it's the same problem. Randle was the answer until it all fell apart against OKC and I agree that he probably isn't the answer going forward if we want to win a title. It just so happens that the players that could be the answer are mostly PGs, including Rob Dillingham if we give him a couple years (which the front office may not want to wait on).

- Also agree on Naz. He isn't a Center and Randle was OK-ish at bodying up big guys, but is hardly a rim protector. I think looking at a guy like Kevon Looney this offseason would really help shore things up in the paint and give us an insurance policy in case Rudy gets hurt.

Thanks Q

You echo my thoughts exactly- Jaden as the starting 4 with Clark as the primary POA defender. This is also one the reasons I really want to keep NAW so we can keep up the ball pressure but relief some of that pressure on Jaden. I also am VERY intrigued by a small ball look with Jaden as a defacto 5. Jaden/Naz (or Shannon)/Clark (or Shannon)/DDV/Ant feel like it could be lethal.

Regarding my thoughts about Ant at PG, they were somewhat incomplete. That line of thought is mostly in response to folk wanting to start DDV at point guard. I just don't think that's a real solution, he's need to be off ball and be used as a floor spacer. Obviously he can handle the ball and initiate at times, but Ant should be the primary one doing that and his development should be aimed in that direction, with DDV, Dilly and Mike being the relief duty handlers.

Now as you've said, they are still minus and secondary creator with this, which a riddle I can't solve. I think Giannis would be an amazing answer and i think he and Ant actually pair up really well but I just don't see that as realistic.
Can Jaden move into a more primary role on offense? I think so, but hoping that he can transition into having a J Dub level of impact is a big ask. I think he's best viewed as a number 3.

So my answer to this problem is incomplete. I think an offense with Ant focused on a more determined breaking the paint role, where he is more deliberate in moving toward the rim and reading the floor- use Naz and DDV as shooters and Jaden, Rudy, Shannon, and Naz as cutters slash lob threats- can certainly be effective. It would have gaps however, Naz on defense and that's a big load on Ant.

[KiwiMatt]

My preferred and somewhat realistic acquisition is Derrick White from Boston. He is the near perfect fit for this team and gives Ant a legit backcourt partner who doesn't require high usage to be effective. He is one of the best guard defenders in the league and decent career 3pt shooter. His contract is 26 / 28 / 30 / 32 million over the next four season and at 30 years old he is in his prime.

Boston are in a worse financial situation than us, and need to shed salary. Although they'd prefer to trade Jrue or Porzingis, they'd likely have to attached draft compensation to trade either of them. Where as Derrick White would likely yield them draft compensation and cap relief.

From Timberwolves point of view, we need to shed either Gobert or Randle's contract. For me I'm not a fan of Randle's fit going forward with this team. I want to see us play smaller and space the floor better. You could argue Rudy's the problem by me saying that but I think his defense is more important to winning than Randle's offense. I want to see Naz extended and Jaden to play more power forward next to either Naz or Gobert. Derrick White would give us a legit point of attack defender, allowing Jaden to play in that swiss army knife role which he excelled at while Randle and Rudy were injured.

How would we acquire Derrick White? Here's a four team trade which would work (assuming Julius takes up his team option which I think he will, hopefully before the draft):

Minnesota receives: Derrick White and 37th Pick (DET)

Boston receives: Cam Johnson, 26th Pick (NJ) and 31st Pick (MIN):

Why for Boston: They have 226 mil in guarantee contracts, a massive 17 mil over the 2nd apron. With Tatum out for likely the whole season their two main priorities are shedding salary while still staying competitive. Cam Johnson gives them a decent replacement while Tatum is out and takes 8 mil off their books. Draft compensation to sweeten the deal, which gives them three picks between 28th - 32nd which are ideal for their requirement for lower salary contracts

Detroit receives: Julius Randle

Why for Detroit: Isn't Randle the perfect fit for their style of play with his bully ball approach? He is a significant upgrade over Harris and can be extended as they have plenty of cap space to work with. Love the fit

New Jersey receives: Tobias Harris, Josh Minott, 17th Pick (MIN) and 2nd RP (DET 2027)

Why for New Jersey: Clearly rebuilding and with cap space and roster space they can absorb contracts while gaining draft capital for the future. Harris gives them a tradeable salary and somewhat replaces Johnson production and fit.

I'd then look to resign Naz for 4 years 100 million (22 / 24 / 26 / 28 mil). This would put us at 196 mil (2nd apron is 208 mil).
Draft BPA big at 37 and sign Guerschon Yabusele with the MLE (French connection with Rudy and plays like a poor man's Randle).

White / Dillingham / Conley
Edwards / DDV / Clark
McDaniels / TSJ
Reid / Yabusele / Miller
Gobert / Garza

Although it appears guard heavy Edwards would play more 3, Jaden would play more 4 and Reid small ball 5 freeing up minutes for Dilly, Conley, DDV, Clark and TSJ at the 1, 2 and 3 spots.

[AussieWolf3]

I'd say that's a pretty even trade to acquire White.

I haven't seen his name brought up much, but I can't stop wondering about how good of a fit Domontas Sobonis would be here, who would also provide both an upgrade over Rudy as well a more long term answer at C.

It would be a step back defensively but overall Sobonis is just a better player

[Q-is-here]

Yeah, while Derrick White isn't quite an elite bucket-getter/play maker, he's solid in both areas, and he is an elite 3-point shooter and defender....checks a LOT of boxes. I think he and an unleashed Jaden could sort of share that second option role.

[60WinTim]

Hey, Aussie! Any words of wisdom on Rocco Zikarsky? Could he be TC's next Jokic?

(or are Aussie players not your specialty?)

[WildWolf2813]

My preferred and somewhat realistic acquisition is Derrick White from Boston. He is the near perfect fit for this team and gives Ant a legit backcourt partner who doesn't require high usage to be effective. He is one of the best guard defenders in the league and decent career 3pt shooter. His contract is 26 / 28 / 30 / 32 million over the next four season and at 30 years old he is in his prime.

Boston are in a worse financial situation than us, and need to shed salary. Although they'd prefer to trade Jrue or Porzingis, they'd likely have to attached draft compensation to trade either of them. Where as Derrick White would likely yield them draft compensation and cap relief.

From Timberwolves point of view, we need to shed either Gobert or Randle's contract. For me I'm not a fan of Randle's fit going forward with this team. I want to see us play smaller and space the floor better. You could argue Rudy's the problem by me saying that but I think his defense is more important to winning than Randle's offense. I want to see Naz extended and Jaden to play more power forward next to either Naz or Gobert. Derrick White would give us a legit point of attack defender, allowing Jaden to play in that swiss army knife role which he excelled at while Randle and Rudy were injured.

How would we acquire Derrick White? Here's a four team trade which would work (assuming Julius takes up his team option which I think he will, hopefully before the draft):

Minnesota receives: Derrick White and 37th Pick (DET)

Boston receives: Cam Johnson, 26th Pick (NJ) and 31st Pick (MIN):

Why for Boston: They have 226 mil in guarantee contracts, a massive 17 mil over the 2nd apron. With Tatum out for likely the whole season their two main priorities are shedding salary while still staying competitive. Cam Johnson gives them a decent replacement while Tatum is out and takes 8 mil off their books. Draft compensation to sweeten the deal, which gives them three picks between 28th - 32nd which are ideal for their requirement for lower salary contracts

Detroit receives: Julius Randle

Why for Detroit: Isn't Randle the perfect fit for their style of play with his bully ball approach? He is a significant upgrade over Harris and can be extended as they have plenty of cap space to work with. Love the fit

New Jersey receives: Tobias Harris, Josh Minott, 17th Pick (MIN) and 2nd RP (DET 2027)

Why for New Jersey: Clearly rebuilding and with cap space and roster space they can absorb contracts while gaining draft capital for the future. Harris gives them a tradeable salary and somewhat replaces Johnson production and fit.

I'd then look to resign Naz for 4 years 100 million (22 / 24 / 26 / 28 mil). This would put us at 196 mil (2nd apron is 208 mil).
Draft BPA big at 37 and sign Guerschon Yabusele with the MLE (French connection with Rudy and plays like a poor man's Randle).

White / Dillingham / Conley
Edwards / DDV / Clark
McDaniels / TSJ
Reid / Yabusele / Miller
Gobert / Garza

Although it appears guard heavy Edwards would play more 3, Jaden would play more 4 and Reid small ball 5 freeing up minutes for Dilly, Conley, DDV, Clark and TSJ at the 1, 2 and 3 spots.

I can't see Boston using White to shed salary. If they do it'll be Holiday. Porzingis would need draft compensation attached but not Jrue.


Now Brooklyn will definitely play a big role in what happens, but it'll boil down to this question:


You suggested this be a return for Brooklyn:

Harris
Minott
Pick 17 on top of whatever else they have
2027 2nd

would you have that or just sign Naz outright? If Naz opts out, Brooklyn can control that.