Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:03 pm

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:35 am

DNatagal wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 9:41 am I played all 5 positions in HS. Of course it was due to me growing 5 inches in 3 months and injuries to players, but I did it!

Ant can do it!

LoL

I believe Ant can do almost everything you need out of him (at the cost of something else if he's putting in too much effort). I've seen him defend an older Lebron and push him around in the playoffs. But I've also seen him put full effort into trying to guard Joker, Zion and some other bigs, and be no resistance at all. I can't see it against the bigger teams in the league.

One factor we are missing in our discussion of PF possibilities, and especially with respect to Ant, is standing reach. I assume most of us played a lot of basketball and know how frustrating it can be to score on or defend a guy with a much bigger standing reach than you. Analysts talk about height, but you don't block shots with the top of your head...you generally block them with your arms up! And despite having good strength and athleticism, Ant's short arms leave him with a standing reach of only 8-4...almost 8 inches shorter than the average PF. The average PF will have no problem at all getting his shot off against a guy 8 inches "shorter"!

LaMelo and Rudy have great standing reach measures...Rudy at 9-9 is much longer than the average center (9-3) and LaMelo at 8-10 (!) is way longer than the average point guard (8-3). Jaden is long at 8-11, but many of us here are concerned about him not having the necessary bulk to bang with the behemoths. And almost every other rotation player (Ayo, TJ, Clark, Green) have the standing reach of an average NBA SG at 8-4 or 8-5...they would certainly struggle with the length of most NBA PFs.

This one is personal to me because I had to play a position I was undersized for in both high school and college...sometimes giving up the kind of length disadvantage Ant would be giving up defending a PF (without anything close to the athleticism!). All this to say the obvious...TC needs to find someone big enough to defend NBA PFs, and to allow Jaden and Ant to match up against players their size as they are allowed to play the position most suited to them. If not, I think we are going to see a lot more Trey Lyles than I would prefer.

I think Trey Lyles is going to be a pleasant surprise to most people. Nothing flashy, nothing dynamic, just solid play from a legit PF.

We are losing way too much sleep over the PF position. It'll work itself out. We have Ball and ANT. That is frickin' amazing!

60WinTim wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:14 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:03 pm

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:35 am

I believe Ant can do almost everything you need out of him (at the cost of something else if he's putting in too much effort). I've seen him defend an older Lebron and push him around in the playoffs. But I've also seen him put full effort into trying to guard Joker, Zion and some other bigs, and be no resistance at all. I can't see it against the bigger teams in the league.

One factor we are missing in our discussion of PF possibilities, and especially with respect to Ant, is standing reach. I assume most of us played a lot of basketball and know how frustrating it can be to score on or defend a guy with a much bigger standing reach than you. Analysts talk about height, but you don't block shots with the top of your head...you generally block them with your arms up! And despite having good strength and athleticism, Ant's short arms leave him with a standing reach of only 8-4...almost 8 inches shorter than the average PF. The average PF will have no problem at all getting his shot off against a guy 8 inches "shorter"!

LaMelo and Rudy have great standing reach measures...Rudy at 9-9 is much longer than the average center (9-3) and LaMelo at 8-10 (!) is way longer than the average point guard (8-3). Jaden is long at 8-11, but many of us here are concerned about him not having the necessary bulk to bang with the behemoths. And almost every other rotation player (Ayo, TJ, Clark, Green) have the standing reach of an average NBA SG at 8-4 or 8-5...they would certainly struggle with the length of most NBA PFs.

This one is personal to me because I had to play a position I was undersized for in both high school and college...sometimes giving up the kind of length disadvantage Ant would be giving up defending a PF (without anything close to the athleticism!). All this to say the obvious...TC needs to find someone big enough to defend NBA PFs, and to allow Jaden and Ant to match up against players their size as they are allowed to play the position most suited to them. If not, I think we are going to see a lot more Trey Lyles than I would prefer.

I think Trey Lyles is going to be a pleasant surprise to most people. Nothing flashy, nothing dynamic, just solid play from a legit PF.

We are losing way too much sleep over the PF position. It'll work itself out. We have Ball and ANT. That is frickin' amazing!

I'm good with Lyles

Phenom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 11:22 pm

60WinTim wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:14 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:03 pm

One factor we are missing in our discussion of PF possibilities, and especially with respect to Ant, is standing reach. I assume most of us played a lot of basketball and know how frustrating it can be to score on or defend a guy with a much bigger standing reach than you. Analysts talk about height, but you don't block shots with the top of your head...you generally block them with your arms up! And despite having good strength and athleticism, Ant's short arms leave him with a standing reach of only 8-4...almost 8 inches shorter than the average PF. The average PF will have no problem at all getting his shot off against a guy 8 inches "shorter"!

LaMelo and Rudy have great standing reach measures...Rudy at 9-9 is much longer than the average center (9-3) and LaMelo at 8-10 (!) is way longer than the average point guard (8-3). Jaden is long at 8-11, but many of us here are concerned about him not having the necessary bulk to bang with the behemoths. And almost every other rotation player (Ayo, TJ, Clark, Green) have the standing reach of an average NBA SG at 8-4 or 8-5...they would certainly struggle with the length of most NBA PFs.

This one is personal to me because I had to play a position I was undersized for in both high school and college...sometimes giving up the kind of length disadvantage Ant would be giving up defending a PF (without anything close to the athleticism!). All this to say the obvious...TC needs to find someone big enough to defend NBA PFs, and to allow Jaden and Ant to match up against players their size as they are allowed to play the position most suited to them. If not, I think we are going to see a lot more Trey Lyles than I would prefer.

I think Trey Lyles is going to be a pleasant surprise to most people. Nothing flashy, nothing dynamic, just solid play from a legit PF.

We are losing way too much sleep over the PF position. It'll work itself out. We have Ball and ANT. That is frickin' amazing!

I'm good with Lyles

I'm actually with you guys...Lyles is my starter on day 1 barring any significant move by TC. I'm just pointing out the problem with the narrative that guys like Ant, Ayo, and TJ can defend guys 8 inches longer than them! Maybe once in a while out of desperation, but not on a nightly basis...size matters! That's why Lyles with his 9 foot standing reach and adequate 3-point shooting has to be the answer given the current roster.

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:01 am

Phenom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 11:22 pm

60WinTim wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 10:14 pm

I think Trey Lyles is going to be a pleasant surprise to most people. Nothing flashy, nothing dynamic, just solid play from a legit PF.

We are losing way too much sleep over the PF position. It'll work itself out. We have Ball and ANT. That is frickin' amazing!

I'm good with Lyles

I'm actually with you guys...Lyles is my starter on day 1 barring any significant move by TC. I'm just pointing out the problem with the narrative that guys like Ant, Ayo, and TJ can defend guys 8 inches longer than them! Maybe once in a while out of desperation, but not on a nightly basis...size matters! That's why Lyles with his 9 foot standing reach and adequate 3-point shooting has to be the answer given the current roster.

Lyles ain't starting, and if he is I'd be very disappointed in Finch.
I agreed that he's becoming a forgotten player in the PF discussion, but that's still only as a rotation piece, he can't be a starter for an indefinite period of games--- that would be a problem.

Talking about Ant or Ayo playing PF is ridiculous, because that's not the question at hand. The question is, can they be good enough as wing stoppers if Jaden is your starting PF?

And once again we're left asking: who are these "behemoths" playing PF in the league today? Chet Holmgren is considered a DPOY level defender who is the starting 4 in OKCs lineup and then moves down to center when IHart leaves the floor.... How bulky is that guy?
You'll have to solve for guys like Zion, who you won't see in the playoffs and Giannis who plays in the East. That puzzle is never solved, by any team, by matching your 4s 1 on 1 with them...never

Whether this board or Finch like it or not Jaden is the starting PF unless other moves are made.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:22 am

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:01 am

Phenom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2026 11:22 pm

I'm good with Lyles

I'm actually with you guys...Lyles is my starter on day 1 barring any significant move by TC. I'm just pointing out the problem with the narrative that guys like Ant, Ayo, and TJ can defend guys 8 inches longer than them! Maybe once in a while out of desperation, but not on a nightly basis...size matters! That's why Lyles with his 9 foot standing reach and adequate 3-point shooting has to be the answer given the current roster.

Lyles ain't starting, and if he is I'd be very disappointed in Finch.
I agreed that he's becoming a forgotten player in the PF discussion, but that's still only as a rotation piece, he can't be a starter for an indefinite period of games--- that would be a problem.

Talking about Ant or Ayo playing PF is ridiculous, because that's not the question at hand. The question is, can they be good enough as wing stoppers if Jaden is your starting PF?

And once again we're left asking: who are these "behemoths" playing PF in the league today? Chet Holmgren is considered a DPOY level defender who is the starting 4 in OKCs lineup and then moves down to center when IHart leaves the floor.... How bulky is that guy?
You'll have to solve for guys like Zion, who you won't see in the playoffs and Giannis who plays in the East. That puzzle is never solved, by any team, by matching your 4s 1 on 1 with them...never

Whether this board or Finch like it or not Jaden is the starting PF unless other moves are made.

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Trey Lyles was in the NBA for a decade... playing for 5 different teams.

None of them deemed him a starter. He's played 12 playoff games over that time, all as an end of the rotation guy, including in 2023 with the Kings.

Do we expect significant improvement from this guy after a year out of the NBA and into his 30s? He's here as a minutes filler off the bench. He's capable in that role. He's definitely overextended if we're expecting more than that.

Finch will need to be situational with his lineups and have a better feel for what needs to be on the floor. That might include a Jaden/Ant/Ball/Ayo/Clark lineup. It might mean Rudy/Jaden/TSJ/Ant/Ball sees more minutes. Some combination of 4 guards/wings will be the standard if Jaden gets into foul trouble.

At the end of the day, Finch needs to be the best coach he can be this year.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 8:38 am Trey Lyles was in the NBA for a decade... playing for 5 different teams.

None of them deemed him a starter. He's played 12 playoff games over that time, all as an end of the rotation guy, including in 2023 with the Kings.

Do we expect significant improvement from this guy after a year out of the NBA and into his 30s? He's here as a minutes filler off the bench. He's capable in that role. He's definitely overextended if we're expecting more than that.

Abe Pop played him as a psuedo starter those years the Spurs were bad...

Yabby came back to the league and was way better than before he left. Did Lyles leave the NBA because nobody wanted to sign him or he simply wanted a better opportunity than a likely vet min to mostly sit on the bench? I'm trying not to be too optimistic about what he can provide although I like the signing for the vet min.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:50 am

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:22 am

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:01 am

I'm actually with you guys...Lyles is my starter on day 1 barring any significant move by TC. I'm just pointing out the problem with the narrative that guys like Ant, Ayo, and TJ can defend guys 8 inches longer than them! Maybe once in a while out of desperation, but not on a nightly basis...size matters! That's why Lyles with his 9 foot standing reach and adequate 3-point shooting has to be the answer given the current roster.

Lyles ain't starting, and if he is I'd be very disappointed in Finch.
I agreed that he's becoming a forgotten player in the PF discussion, but that's still only as a rotation piece, he can't be a starter for an indefinite period of games--- that would be a problem.

Talking about Ant or Ayo playing PF is ridiculous, because that's not the question at hand. The question is, can they be good enough as wing stoppers if Jaden is your starting PF?

And once again we're left asking: who are these "behemoths" playing PF in the league today? Chet Holmgren is considered a DPOY level defender who is the starting 4 in OKCs lineup and then moves down to center when IHart leaves the floor.... How bulky is that guy?
You'll have to solve for guys like Zion, who you won't see in the playoffs and Giannis who plays in the East. That puzzle is never solved, by any team, by matching your 4s 1 on 1 with them...never

Whether this board or Finch like it or not Jaden is the starting PF unless other moves are made.

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 9:38 am

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 8:38 am Trey Lyles was in the NBA for a decade... playing for 5 different teams.

None of them deemed him a starter. He's played 12 playoff games over that time, all as an end of the rotation guy, including in 2023 with the Kings.

Do we expect significant improvement from this guy after a year out of the NBA and into his 30s? He's here as a minutes filler off the bench. He's capable in that role. He's definitely overextended if we're expecting more than that.

Abe Pop played him as a psuedo starter those years the Spurs were bad...

Yabby came back to the league and was way better than before he left. Did Lyles leave the NBA because nobody wanted to sign him or he simply wanted a better opportunity than a likely vet min to mostly sit on the bench? I'm trying not to be too optimistic about what he can provide although I like the signing for the vet min.

I don't personally expect significant improvement. His career average in minutes, his career average in usage, shooting, defense and rebounding percentage is a nice fit with the current starters, especially since Finch has more grand plans for Rudy on offense this year.