Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to jon k, the rift between butler and wiggins/kat is real. The team doesnt like jimmy throwing the kids under the bus to the media, but thibs isnt the type to get involved.

This is basically chicago all over again.

Oh. oh.

I can see that. If it was Year 2 or Year 3 with the Butler and the young guys... ok. Enough is enough. But he played about 60 games with them.

And was ripping them for much of that time. The rumors of Butler's "poor leadership" were out there. But nobody really had a clear reading of what those were. This seems to give us an indication.

Something to consider is the type of leadership that some of the top players of the last 20 or so years have been like. They certainly were not cuddly teddy bears. This stuff with Butler is concerning but maybe it's time for some guys to man up and play their asses off for the 60 or so games like Jimmy does. The Butler hate is really almost amazing considering he is the best player this franchise has had in over a decade. Thibs and Layden need to do some work here also helping everyone get on the same page.

You don't have to be a cuddly teddy bear to be a leader. But you can't repeatedly denigrate your teammates publicly through the media. Jordan was as tough on his teammates as anyone, but he did it directly and in private, not publicly. Also, LST is right that questioning KAT's effort and heart is way off base. KAT needs to get smarter on defense, but watching him fight with the biggest, strongest players in the League on every single possession as I do tells me the guy has a lot of heart. Then there's his consistently high productivity - not just scoring but rebounding as well. You can't produce like that, especially rebounding, if you're not playing really hard all the time. As KG once said, rebounding is all about effort. And KG wouldn't have taken to KAT the way he has if KAT wasn't competitive and didn't have heart. Oh, and KAT consistency plays 82 games a season. How many does Butler play?

crazy-canuck wrote:According to jon k, the rift between butler and wiggins/kat is real. The team doesnt like jimmy throwing the kids under the bus to the media, but thibs isnt the type to get involved.

This is basically chicago all over again.

Do you have a source for this? I don't see it anywhere on his twitter feed.

BloopOracle wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to jon k, the rift between butler and wiggins/kat is real. The team doesnt like jimmy throwing the kids under the bus to the media, but thibs isnt the type to get involved.

This is basically chicago all over again.

Do you have a source for this? I don't see it anywhere on his twitter feed.

The info referred to is from Jon K's latest podcast.

By the way, if Butler is still with the team this fall, things will get ugly in practice. I would expect KAT to deliver a forearm to Butler's face at some point. I know I would. Butler is isolating himself from the rest of his teammates when, as a leader, he should be building rapport with his teammates and rallying them. Thibs needs to step in and help repair the damage already done, but ultimately it's up to Butler to rectify things with his teammates. I suspect he's not up to the task, but we'll see.

lipoli390 wrote:By the way, if Butler is still with the team this fall, things will get ugly in practice. I would expect KAT to deliver a forearm to Butler's face at some point. I know I would. Butler is isolating himself from the rest of his teammates when, as a leader, he should be building rapport with his teammates and rallying them. Thibs needs to step in and help repair the damage already done, but ultimately it's up to Butler to rectify things with his teammates. I suspect he's not up to the task, but we'll see.

I have always admired Butler's work ethic and how he gets the most out of his abilities, but he's an odd duck in many ways...he's rather goofy, if you watch his demeanor on the bench and read about his off court behavior. Thibs knows this, and probably never expected Butler to be a leader...except by example on the court. The consensus leader in the clubhouse for the past few years has been Gorgui Dieng (anyone close to the team will tell you this). I suspect his demotion to the bench with the arrival of Taj Gibson may have weakened his leadership role a bit, and created a void that led to the discontent and upheaval the team is experiencing right now. I know it's not in his nature, but it would be great if Thibs could drag himself away from the video room for a while and establish some order.

I'm still anxious to hear exactly what Butler said about his team mates (?). I've seen nothing published.

Assuming there is fire where there is smoke, then I believe everyone is at fault. The fact is KAT and Wiggins have proven incapable of playing winning basketball when left on their own. Defense especially has been a problem, with the exception of two lineups: 1) The lineup with KG and Prince starting a couple years ago, and 2) the lineup with Butler and Taj last season.

In other words, they need practically all time great defensive players playing next to them in order to get stops consistently. This is despite the fact both of these guys have nearly ideal physical profiles.

Just my observations about Butler:

He had to work extremely hard to find his way in the league. He bided his time and probably took a back seat in team situations early in his career. Once he became a star, it changed him. Not necessarily on the court where he still gives max effort, but off the court. His ego is huge and drives a lot of what he says and does off the floor. I think he likes the celebrity of being "the guy" but isn't necessarily equipped to be that leader and everything that comes with it. We're now hearing the same things that tainted his time in Chicago.

In a perfect world we swing a trade with the Spurs and bring Kawhi in, even if just for a year. I bet Leonard would fit perfectly with our group. It would actually get me off my doomsday predictions I've been making. But alas, this is something that sadly will not happen.

Butler likes every post someone makes on his instagram so I can't say I'm too bothered by him liking the spurs comment being as he liked comments telling him to stay in MN, go to ___ etc as well. All I'm interested in is Jimmy, KAT, and Thibs meeting in person and attempting to talk things through. Too many athletes like to troll on social media for me to take anything from it unless it's direct.

Double

Jimmy has had to earn everything in his career while KAT and Wiggins have been handed everything as number 1 picks. Guess who's the best basketball player among the 3? The fact is he's calling them out because they are spoiled shits who don't play winning basketball. I don't care if it's bad for the franchise, I'm sticking with Jimmy and his hard work and attitude over both young spoiled brats. Wiggins and Towns were crowned before they earned anything and they play like it. They're not professionals. They're kids making millions to play basketball.