Wolves 2017 Draft Thread

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The problem Lip is that Wiggins' length doesn't really translate into results on the defensive side of the ball. We've talked ad nauseam about his mediocre rebounding and lack of blocks/deflections/steals. He gets man handled by bigger wings. After three seasons in the league, he has put on minimal weight, so I'm skeptical that he's suddenly going to pack on another 15 lbs. of muscle.

That being said, I do think he can still play SF to finish games, where teams tend to downsize significantly anyway. It's the start of halves where I'd prefer to have a bigger, stronger lineup and a big wing defender next to him that can take some of the defensive and rebounding pressure off of Wiggins. Then may be he'll have the legs and energy to perform better in crunch time.

I don't think size is Wiggins problem on the defensive end. Watching him live in close to 120 home games the past three years, I see his defensive failings primarily as a function of his inconsistent motor and his learning curve understanding how to defend. I've seen him get out-quicked more than I've seen him overpowered. He and KAT have both been way too matador-like on defense. Wiggins is listed at 6'8, 199. Compare that to some SFs on playoff teams around the League - many of them regarded as excellent defenders:

Bazemore - 6'5, 201
DeMarre Carroll - 6'8, 212
Otto Porter - 6'8, 198
Kelly Oubre - 6'7, 205
Iggy - 6'6, 215
Ariza - 6'8, 215
James Ennis - 6'7, 210
Jonathon Simmons.- 6'6, 195
McDermott - 6'8, 219
Andre Roberson - 6'7, 210

Yes, there are much beefier SFs like Leonard. But the ones I listed are all good players, many of them good defenders and none have the hops or overall athleticism of Andrew Wiggins. Compared to these guys it's obvious that Wiggins isn't some pewee who is too small physically to defend at the SF position. On the offensive end, Wiggins doesn't have the ball-handling skills of a top NBA SG. Some of it comes down to matchups. But overall, I see Wiggins as more of a SF than SG and his size is in line with a number of currently successful NBA SFs.

That said, it doesn't look like we're going to ever get much rebounding out of Wiggins. So I do see merit to pairing him with another (probably bigger) wing who rebounds. On the other hand, we absolutely have to have a top 3-point shooter on the floor with Wiggins to spread the floor and provide for more efficient scoring. If not, we won't have any good 3-point shooters on the floor in our starting lineup and that's totally unacceptable in today's NBA. Moreover, we were actually a pretty good rebounding team last season with KAT, Gorgui and Ricky among the better rebounders at their respective positions.

Lip, some of those weights are a bit dated I think. Also, being 6'6 and 195-200 lbs is different than being 6'8 or 6'9 and 195 lbs. Simmons is clearly built more powerfully than Wiggins.

On the rebounding, our strong offensive rebounding is why our overall rebounding numbers looked good. If you look at our defensive rebounding, we actually struggled (20th in the league in DReb %). It doesn't help when your starting SF averages 2.8 defensive rebounds per game. Compare that to Otto Porter, who is the exact same size and a lesser athlete. He averaged 5.0 defensive rebounds per game.

Your point on outside shooting is well taken. It's tough to find a starting wing defender that is big AND can hit the 3 at a high rate. Tucker and Thabo are OK-ish 3-point shooters, but they need a lot of time and space.

[Monster]

My bottom line in this draft is to take the best player available. After 31 wins and another in a long string of lottery appearances, the Wolves simply aren't in a position to draft for need. Look at the two teams we're going to see in this year's NBA finals. One team, the Cavs, have 3 all-stars, including perhaps the best player in the NBA. The other team, the Warriors, have 4 all-stars and a borderline all-star in Iggy. The Spurs championship teams of the past had 3 allstars in Parker, Duncan and Manu. The Miami Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. In other words, you rarely see an NBA champion that doesn't have at least two, often three, allstars and among those allstars at least one superstar.

So let's consider our current Wolves roster. Obviously, we don't have any allstars yet. But who are our potential allstars? I'd say KAT and Wiggins. LaVine perhaps, but I'd rank his chances below the other two. And whether we consider two or all three as potential allstars, it should go without saying that we're still only talking potential. Our front office should make it their mission to use the #7 pick to add another potential allstar to the roster. They can use free agency and our nearly $30 million in cap space to provide more immediate help.

So the task for our front office between now and the draft will be to identify the players in the draft who have the best chance of becoming NBA allstars and take the best one still available at #7. For me, best player available isn't necessarily the player with the most upside. Instead it's a combination of upside and the likelihood of the player reaching his potential. The latter piece is important and it's generally a function of physical issues, attitude, work ethic, and drive or what we call "motor." Smith has huge upside, but I'd shy away from him because I have doubts about Smith actually reaching his potential given his injury history, attitude and inconsistent motor.

My top tier so far are Ball, Fultz, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac, and Tatum in that order. Unfortunately, I'm convinced they'll all be gone by the time we pick at #7. I like Fox, but his poor perimeter shooting is a gaping hole in his game. As I mentioned earlier, Smith's physical issues and motor scare me away from him. I like Monk, but I don't see all-star caliber upside in his game. That leaves me with two guys who I'd gravitate towards at #7 - Zach Collins and Markkanen. Collins looks like his has the length and skills that make him a very high upside prospect along with a toughness and motor that suggest he has a good chance of eventually reaching his potential. Markkanen seems defensively limited, but so did Nowitski when he came into the League. Markkanen is a bona fide 3-point marksman with other offensive skills, including excellent ballhandling for a 7'0 PF.

So I wouldn't trade the pick unless someone makes an offer we can't refuse. I'd take Isaac or Tatum if either is still available. But if not, I'd probably take Zach Collins after giving serious consideration to Markkanen.

I'm not a fan of either guy but I'd like to hear why you kinda give Markkanen the benefit of the doubt on his weaknesses and not Smith.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

With Markkanan, you can't teach height. There is something to be said about a legit 7-footer. He clearly plays a softer brand of basketball, but if they think he can move his feet and can learn good defensive positioning, then perhaps they feel he can become an OK defender.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

My bottom line in this draft is to take the best player available. After 31 wins and another in a long string of lottery appearances, the Wolves simply aren't in a position to draft for need. Look at the two teams we're going to see in this year's NBA finals. One team, the Cavs, have 3 all-stars, including perhaps the best player in the NBA. The other team, the Warriors, have 4 all-stars and a borderline all-star in Iggy. The Spurs championship teams of the past had 3 allstars in Parker, Duncan and Manu. The Miami Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. In other words, you rarely see an NBA champion that doesn't have at least two, often three, allstars and among those allstars at least one superstar.

So let's consider our current Wolves roster. Obviously, we don't have any allstars yet. But who are our potential allstars? I'd say KAT and Wiggins. LaVine perhaps, but I'd rank his chances below the other two. And whether we consider two or all three as potential allstars, it should go without saying that we're still only talking potential. Our front office should make it their mission to use the #7 pick to add another potential allstar to the roster. They can use free agency and our nearly $30 million in cap space to provide more immediate help.

So the task for our front office between now and the draft will be to identify the players in the draft who have the best chance of becoming NBA allstars and take the best one still available at #7. For me, best player available isn't necessarily the player with the most upside. Instead it's a combination of upside and the likelihood of the player reaching his potential. The latter piece is important and it's generally a function of physical issues, attitude, work ethic, and drive or what we call "motor." Smith has huge upside, but I'd shy away from him because I have doubts about Smith actually reaching his potential given his injury history, attitude and inconsistent motor.

My top tier so far are Ball, Fultz, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac, and Tatum in that order. Unfortunately, I'm convinced they'll all be gone by the time we pick at #7. I like Fox, but his poor perimeter shooting is a gaping hole in his game. As I mentioned earlier, Smith's physical issues and motor scare me away from him. I like Monk, but I don't see all-star caliber upside in his game. That leaves me with two guys who I'd gravitate towards at #7 - Zach Collins and Markkanen. Collins looks like his has the length and skills that make him a very high upside prospect along with a toughness and motor that suggest he has a good chance of eventually reaching his potential. Markkanen seems defensively limited, but so did Nowitski when he came into the League. Markkanen is a bona fide 3-point marksman with other offensive skills, including excellent ballhandling for a 7'0 PF.

So I wouldn't trade the pick unless someone makes an offer we can't refuse. I'd take Isaac or Tatum if either is still available. But if not, I'd probably take Zach Collins after giving serious consideration to Markkanen.

I looked at the draft seriously for the first time last night...last season's disappointment left me with such a bitter taste in my mouth that I couldn't muster any enthusiasm for another draft pick, but my interest is increasing as draft day approaches. I guess I come down exactly where Lip is, and think this will come down to a choice between Collins and Markkanen...and I'm not very excited about either. I've been on the Isaac train ever since watching him against the Gophers early in the season when he was not projected to go in the top 10, but now I clearly think he is out of reach...this kid is going to go before 7 for sure, especially after teams watch his workouts.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I have felt largely the same about the draft LST, although admittedly started paying attention more starting a few weeks ago.

I agree that it's hard to see Isaac getting past Orlando.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I can't say I ever even saw Smith play live, so the "motor" comments aren't something I can comment on. But in watching video of all of these prospects, he shows the skills and athleticism to be a top 5 pick for sure.

I am not sure the draw with Markkanen. While he is an elite shooter, I am not sure his overall skillset is what we are looking for as a pairing with KAT. We need a prominent defender and rebounder next to KAT, which Markkanen is neither. If he had Collins toughness, he would be a great prospect for us.

I agree with Lip's list on who will be gone. That leaves Monk, Markannen, Smith, Collins for the Wolves. I want to go for Smith because I think he has by far the most potential in that grouping, but he does create perceived challenges for the Wolves roster (adding a 4th PG). Although I like the Tyus story, I don't see him as a viable + backup over the long run. In fact, he shouldn't weigh into any decisions this team makes regarding bringing in talent. That leaves 3. The bigger question is what about Dunn? Love his defensive potential, but can/will he improve? Can he ever really be a PG in the NBA? Maybe Smith is the right pick in the long run?

Regarding Collins, I like the guy a lot from what I have seen. That being said, he just doesn't feel like a top tier prospect. Feels more like a 10-15 pick to me. Solid backup potential, but not a starter.

[Lipoli390]

My bottom line in this draft is to take the best player available. After 31 wins and another in a long string of lottery appearances, the Wolves simply aren't in a position to draft for need. Look at the two teams we're going to see in this year's NBA finals. One team, the Cavs, have 3 all-stars, including perhaps the best player in the NBA. The other team, the Warriors, have 4 all-stars and a borderline all-star in Iggy. The Spurs championship teams of the past had 3 allstars in Parker, Duncan and Manu. The Miami Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. In other words, you rarely see an NBA champion that doesn't have at least two, often three, allstars and among those allstars at least one superstar.

So let's consider our current Wolves roster. Obviously, we don't have any allstars yet. But who are our potential allstars? I'd say KAT and Wiggins. LaVine perhaps, but I'd rank his chances below the other two. And whether we consider two or all three as potential allstars, it should go without saying that we're still only talking potential. Our front office should make it their mission to use the #7 pick to add another potential allstar to the roster. They can use free agency and our nearly $30 million in cap space to provide more immediate help.

So the task for our front office between now and the draft will be to identify the players in the draft who have the best chance of becoming NBA allstars and take the best one still available at #7. For me, best player available isn't necessarily the player with the most upside. Instead it's a combination of upside and the likelihood of the player reaching his potential. The latter piece is important and it's generally a function of physical issues, attitude, work ethic, and drive or what we call "motor." Smith has huge upside, but I'd shy away from him because I have doubts about Smith actually reaching his potential given his injury history, attitude and inconsistent motor.

My top tier so far are Ball, Fultz, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac, and Tatum in that order. Unfortunately, I'm convinced they'll all be gone by the time we pick at #7. I like Fox, but his poor perimeter shooting is a gaping hole in his game. As I mentioned earlier, Smith's physical issues and motor scare me away from him. I like Monk, but I don't see all-star caliber upside in his game. That leaves me with two guys who I'd gravitate towards at #7 - Zach Collins and Markkanen. Collins looks like his has the length and skills that make him a very high upside prospect along with a toughness and motor that suggest he has a good chance of eventually reaching his potential. Markkanen seems defensively limited, but so did Nowitski when he came into the League. Markkanen is a bona fide 3-point marksman with other offensive skills, including excellent ballhandling for a 7'0 PF.

So I wouldn't trade the pick unless someone makes an offer we can't refuse. I'd take Isaac or Tatum if either is still available. But if not, I'd probably take Zach Collins after giving serious consideration to Markkanen.

I'm not a fan of either guy but I'd like to hear why you kinda give Markkanen the benefit of the doubt on his weaknesses and not Smith.

Because Smith's weaknesses are medical (coming off ACL) and attitude (questions about his attitude and motor). Those are critical concerns that cast doubt over a prospect's chances of reaching his potential, which means its even harder to know what you're getting. Moreover, those concerns are the kind that lead to busts. Markkanen's weaknesses are limitations on his overall potential. He doesn't seem to have to tools to become a great/allstar player so his ceiling is limited. But I haven't seen any red medical or attitude flags that suggest he won't reach his potential or that he could be a bust. What he brings is elite 3-point shooting and overall excellent scoring ability in a 7'0 frame. So you know what you're getting and what you get fits a big need.

With Isaac and others off the board, I don't see any clear allstar prospects. So I'm looking for an elite skill or two that fits a need. Markkanen brings elite 3-point shooting while Collins brings potentially elite shot-blocking and rebounding. On a 30-minute basis, Collins averaged 10.3 rebounding and 3.1 blocks per game. He also showed great potential as a shooter. And unlike Markkenan, Collins has both height and long arms giving him a 9'3 overhead reach. He also brings toughness. That's why I'd take Collins over Markkenan. I can actually see Collins potentially developing into an all-star caliber NBA player over time, but I don't put him in my future allstar group with Ball, Fultz, Isaac, Jackson and Tatum.

If we're going to take a point guard, I'd take a long look at Ntilikina. He's intriguing to me. Watching his highlight videos and reading about him, I'm beginning to see him as a potential allstar. He apparently has a 7'0 wingspan as a PG. He's also regarded as a great competitor. There used to be questions about his shooting, but apparently he's improved a lot in that department and his shot looked very good in the videos I've seen. By draft day, I might be calling for the Wolves to take this kid rather than Collins or Markkenan. And of course, we should certainly take Isaac, Josh Jackson or Tatum if one of them somehow falls to #7.

[Monster]

My bottom line in this draft is to take the best player available. After 31 wins and another in a long string of lottery appearances, the Wolves simply aren't in a position to draft for need. Look at the two teams we're going to see in this year's NBA finals. One team, the Cavs, have 3 all-stars, including perhaps the best player in the NBA. The other team, the Warriors, have 4 all-stars and a borderline all-star in Iggy. The Spurs championship teams of the past had 3 allstars in Parker, Duncan and Manu. The Miami Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. In other words, you rarely see an NBA champion that doesn't have at least two, often three, allstars and among those allstars at least one superstar.

So let's consider our current Wolves roster. Obviously, we don't have any allstars yet. But who are our potential allstars? I'd say KAT and Wiggins. LaVine perhaps, but I'd rank his chances below the other two. And whether we consider two or all three as potential allstars, it should go without saying that we're still only talking potential. Our front office should make it their mission to use the #7 pick to add another potential allstar to the roster. They can use free agency and our nearly $30 million in cap space to provide more immediate help.

So the task for our front office between now and the draft will be to identify the players in the draft who have the best chance of becoming NBA allstars and take the best one still available at #7. For me, best player available isn't necessarily the player with the most upside. Instead it's a combination of upside and the likelihood of the player reaching his potential. The latter piece is important and it's generally a function of physical issues, attitude, work ethic, and drive or what we call "motor." Smith has huge upside, but I'd shy away from him because I have doubts about Smith actually reaching his potential given his injury history, attitude and inconsistent motor.

My top tier so far are Ball, Fultz, Josh Jackson, Jonathan Isaac, and Tatum in that order. Unfortunately, I'm convinced they'll all be gone by the time we pick at #7. I like Fox, but his poor perimeter shooting is a gaping hole in his game. As I mentioned earlier, Smith's physical issues and motor scare me away from him. I like Monk, but I don't see all-star caliber upside in his game. That leaves me with two guys who I'd gravitate towards at #7 - Zach Collins and Markkanen. Collins looks like his has the length and skills that make him a very high upside prospect along with a toughness and motor that suggest he has a good chance of eventually reaching his potential. Markkanen seems defensively limited, but so did Nowitski when he came into the League. Markkanen is a bona fide 3-point marksman with other offensive skills, including excellent ballhandling for a 7'0 PF.

So I wouldn't trade the pick unless someone makes an offer we can't refuse. I'd take Isaac or Tatum if either is still available. But if not, I'd probably take Zach Collins after giving serious consideration to Markkanen.

I'm not a fan of either guy but I'd like to hear why you kinda give Markkanen the benefit of the doubt on his weaknesses and not Smith.

Because Smith's weaknesses are medical (coming off ACL) and attitude (questions about his attitude and motor). Those are critical concerns that cast doubt over a prospect's chances of reaching his potential, which means its even harder to know what you're getting. Moreover, those concerns are the kind that lead to busts. Markkanen's weaknesses are limitations on his overall potential. He doesn't seem to have to tools to become a great/allstar player so his ceiling is limited. But I haven't seen any red medical or attitude flags that suggest he won't reach his potential or that he could be a bust. What he brings is elite 3-point shooting and overall excellent scoring ability in a 7'0 frame. So you know what you're getting and what you get fits a big need.

With Isaac and others off the board, I don't see any clear allstar prospects. So I'm looking for an elite skill or two that fits a need. Markkanen brings elite 3-point shooting while Collins brings potentially elite shot-blocking and rebounding. On a 30-minute basis, Collins averaged 10.3 rebounding and 3.1 blocks per game. He also showed great potential as a shooter. And unlike Markkenan, Collins has both height and long arms giving him a 9'3 overhead reach. He also brings toughness. That's why I'd take Collins over Markkenan. I can actually see Collins potentially developing into an all-star caliber NBA player over time, but I don't put him in my future allstar group with Ball, Fultz, Isaac, Jackson and Tatum.

If we're going to take a point guard, I'd take a long look at Ntilikina. He's intriguing to me. Watching his highlight videos and reading about him, I'm beginning to see him as a potential allstar. He apparently has a 7'0 wingspan as a PG. He's also regarded as a great competitor. There used to be questions about his shooting, but apparently he's improved a lot in that department and his shot looked very good in the videos I've seen. By draft day, I might be calling for the Wolves to take this kid rather than Collins or Markkenan. And of course, we should certainly take Isaac, Josh Jackson or Tatum if one of them somehow falls to #7.

Thanks for the response Lip. I'm not sure why there should be any concerns about Smith medically. He returned his first full season after a torn ACL surgery and put up terrific numbers as a freshman and is very athletic. It's a dichotomy between him and Markkanen because generally speaking Smith has the talent and probably plenty physically to be a really good player. The question is his brain. Markkanen he has some pluses physically because of his height but does next to nothing but be able to shoot but seems like a good kid you just wonder if he can be more than just a shooter that can do more than just shoot. It will suck if we have to pick between these guys IMO even though they have plenty of merits as prospects. I'd probably rather have Zach Collins or one of these magical trade down scenarios. I need to do some research on Frank N.

[Monster]

I've been listening to some of he recent episodes of the "Dunc'd on" podcast and the most interesting stuff has been their draft prospect scouting reports. So far they have done Isaac, Tatum, Jackson and Fultz. I don't know a ton about these guys who do the podcast but they have spent a decent chunk of time watching film and one of them has seen these guys in person when they are at the top HS prospect camps or whatever. They probably have some worthwhile insights.

Fultz was the most recent one they really loved his offense and felt he was absolutely deserving of being a #1 overall pick type talent. They think he defense sucks but offensively they think he is terrific.

Of the 3 wing/forwards they both like Isaac way more than Jackson or Tatum. They think Isaac's all around game translates really well to the new NBA and they like how he likely will be able to play as a SF. They really like his intensity as a rebounder blocking out and getting after it. Sometimes he isn't strong enough but it's not because of lack of effort and they found that significant.

They felt like both Jackson and Tatum weren't really star potential players. They worried about those guys having all around game that translate into something significant at the next level. Tatum doesn't offer a lot other than his isolation scoring which may not be utilized much depending on how good he is what position he plays etc. They were not big believers in Jackson's high end either offensively and they were surprisingly not super high on his defense either which was a bit surprising. They said they expected to have a number of PGs rate much higher than both Jackson and Tatum as prospects. One of the guys said position scarcity at the wing positions likely does factor how those guys are considered. I'll be interested to see what they at as they keep rolling through these prospects.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Man if only Bridges entered this draft. Would have made 7 a lot easier to be comfortable with.