Minnesota Sports Forum

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Duke13 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Agreed. I preferred him to Wiggy as well. Just for the reasons you said. Great shooter and hard worker. But like SP said, this latest Jimmy drama came out of nowhere.

BizarroJerry wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Agreed. I preferred him to Wiggy as well. Just for the reasons you said. Great shooter and hard worker. But like SP said, this latest Jimmy drama came out of nowhere.

I don't want to make it a Wiggins vs Lavine thread but once again for the 5th straight year (small sample size of course in year 5) Zach Lavine has a negative +/- and one of the worst plus/minus guys in the NBA. The bulls are good offensively when he is on the floor but they get shredded defensively also. While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.

If thibs sees a budding butler in okogie and the rockets continue to lack perimeter defense;

2 trades.

1) Houston: jimmy
Minny: capela and zhi

2) houston: dieng
Minny: knight

Rockets get jimmy and a starting c that can platoon with nene.

Minny gets an anchor that can defend such allows kat to become the best offensive big in league history.

Teague/tyus
Okogie/rose
Wiggins/nunnally
Kat/tolliver
Capela/taj

kekgeek1 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Agreed. I preferred him to Wiggy as well. Just for the reasons you said. Great shooter and hard worker. But like SP said, this latest Jimmy drama came out of nowhere.

I don't want to make it a Wiggins vs Lavine thread but once again for the 5th straight year (small sample size of course in year 5) Zach Lavine has a negative +/- and one of the worst plus/minus guys in the NBA. The bulls are good offensively when he is on the floor but they get shredded defensively also. While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.

Yep Zach played on a bad wolves bench and I don't like the +/- at all. Wiggy is better defensively. Correct.

crazy-canuck wrote:If thibs sees a budding butler in okogie and the rockets continue to lack perimeter defense;

2 trades.

1) Houston: jimmy
Minny: capela and zhi

2) houston: dieng
Minny: knight

Rockets get jimmy and a starting c that can platoon with nene.

Minny gets an anchor that can defend such allows kat to become the best offensive big in league history.

Teague/tyus
Okogie/rose
Wiggins/nunnally
Kat/tolliver
Capela/taj

The rockets are not trading capela. They were too good with him on the field

kekgeek1 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:If thibs sees a budding butler in okogie and the rockets continue to lack perimeter defense;

2 trades.

1) Houston: jimmy
Minny: capela and zhi

2) houston: dieng
Minny: knight

Rockets get jimmy and a starting c that can platoon with nene.

Minny gets an anchor that can defend such allows kat to become the best offensive big in league history.

Teague/tyus
Okogie/rose
Wiggins/nunnally
Kat/tolliver
Capela/taj

The rockets are not trading capela. They were too good with him on the field

Were too good with jimmy, yet he wants out.

I don't think capela and the organization are on good terms either due to that extension negotiation. If they want jimmy bad enough, they need to pony up. Agewise, jimmy fits better in their timeline just as capela is with ours.

Not likely to happen, but just a thought.

kekgeek1 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Agreed. I preferred him to Wiggy as well. Just for the reasons you said. Great shooter and hard worker. But like SP said, this latest Jimmy drama came out of nowhere.

I don't want to make it a Wiggins vs Lavine thread but once again for the 5th straight year (small sample size of course in year 5) Zach Lavine has a negative +/- and one of the worst plus/minus guys in the NBA. The bulls are good offensively when he is on the floor but they get shredded defensively also. While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.

Kek, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but I show Wiggins having a negative net rating every year of his career except last season.

But you are absolutely right on LaVine. He has been worse than Wiggins in this stat and it's mostly because of the defensive numbers. Now that can't all be put on him, but it must say something when it seems to be the trend every year. I haven't watched him much with the Bulls, but he must still really struggle on that end of the floor.

The thing about Wiggins is that he won't kill you defensively. He won't turn the tide of a team defense but he won't submarine it either (like Crawford does or perhaps LaVine). But yeah, he's been stagnant offensively for practically his whole career while LaVine keeps improving.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Agreed. I preferred him to Wiggy as well. Just for the reasons you said. Great shooter and hard worker. But like SP said, this latest Jimmy drama came out of nowhere.

I don't want to make it a Wiggins vs Lavine thread but once again for the 5th straight year (small sample size of course in year 5) Zach Lavine has a negative +/- and one of the worst plus/minus guys in the NBA. The bulls are good offensively when he is on the floor but they get shredded defensively also. While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.

Kek, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but I show Wiggins having a negative net rating every year of his career except last season.

But you are absolutely right on LaVine. He has been worse than Wiggins in this stat and it's mostly because of the defensive numbers. Now that can't all be put on him, but it must say something when it seems to be the trend every year. I haven't watched him much with the Bulls, but he must still really struggle on that end of the floor.

The thing about Wiggins is that he won't kill you defensively. He won't turn the tide of a team defense but he won't submarine it either (like Crawford does or perhaps LaVine). But yeah, he's been stagnant offensively for practically his whole career while LaVine keeps improving.

I think kekgeek might be referring to raw +/-.

crazy-canuck wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Kris Dunn out 4-6 weeks with an MCL. I believe Laurie is out for a while too. I was hoping these guys would have come out and outshined the wolves to make Thibs look bad.

Zach is doing his best to make him look bad all by himself. My goodness is he skilled offensively. Seriously I hate to always rip Wig, but it's pretty easy. The skill level of these two players is night and day. I watched most of last nights Bulls game.

I've always been a huge fan of his, I thought he had to always take a back seat to Kat and Wig while he was here, which was unfortunate. Beside the skill level, it's so obvious he works on his body and game in the offseason where it's pretty apparent Wig doesn't. He's much stronger off the dribble now, and can withstand contact doing to the rim much better it appears.

Agreed. I preferred him to Wiggy as well. Just for the reasons you said. Great shooter and hard worker. But like SP said, this latest Jimmy drama came out of nowhere.

I don't want to make it a Wiggins vs Lavine thread but once again for the 5th straight year (small sample size of course in year 5) Zach Lavine has a negative +/- and one of the worst plus/minus guys in the NBA. The bulls are good offensively when he is on the floor but they get shredded defensively also. While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.While Wiggins has been a positive every year he has been a pro in the plus/minus stat. I know it is a noisy stat but it has been the trend for 5 years for both players.

Kek, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but I show Wiggins having a negative net rating every year of his career except last season.

But you are absolutely right on LaVine. He has been worse than Wiggins in this stat and it's mostly because of the defensive numbers. Now that can't all be put on him, but it must say something when it seems to be the trend every year. I haven't watched him much with the Bulls, but he must still really struggle on that end of the floor.

The thing about Wiggins is that he won't kill you defensively. He won't turn the tide of a team defense but he won't submarine it either (like Crawford does or perhaps LaVine). But yeah, he's been stagnant offensively for practically his whole career while LaVine keeps improving.

I think kekgeek might be referring to raw +/-.

Mmm, not sure. Perhaps he's thinking of net On/Off, which basically looks at the difference between team performance while on the court versus while off the court. He tends to do better in that category, mostly because he's had some pretty crappy players back him up! In that case, he can have a negative +/- but the person subbing for him has an even more negative +/-.

Either way, he shows out better in this stat than Zach does, while Zach is clearly the better offensive player at this point. I think the question is whether Zach is so bad defensively that it sort of cancels out all the good he does on offense.