Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:I still don't get how KAT's effort can't be criticized but Wiggins' can. It's silly. KAT completely shits the bed on routine and get's out worked by bigs who crash the glass (see Capela in the playoffs). The fact is they're both young and learning what it takes to be successful in the league. I see growth from both of them, albeit slow growth. Jimmy is right in criticizing both of them, but has no idea how to turn criticism into a change of behavior with his public display. I think both KAT and Wiggins probably believe they're giving it their all because they work hard in practice, in the off season, and have a lot of responsibility for young players during games. You can't expect them to know anything outside of their experience. I wish Jimmy would be more open and invite KAT and Wiggins to work with him all summer, but it's not in his nature right now. Ultimately I see everything as very simple communication issues that will be solved once they all see eachother. This team simply needs to get back into training camp and pre-camp workout and hash it out. Too much boredom right now.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Cam and Hicks...I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, at least with respect to Wiggins. Many of us are frustrated when his level of effort appears so inconsistent. But my issue is his criticism of KAT. Yes, KAT needs to improve on the defensive side of the ball, and I would have no problem with a veteran like Butler calling this out privately and publicly. But Jon K's report was that Butler called KAT out for his effort, and I think that is unfair and misguided. KAT plays hard all the time, and I see little difference between his effort and Jimmy's. Butler's criticism also seems hollow in light of KAT playing 82 games last year and Butler only 59. Perhaps KAT should come out on social media and criticize Butler for taking off more than1/4 of the season.

Lol he tore his fucking meniscus and you talk about it like it was some Kawhi bullshit where he was choosing not to play. KAT plays hard to get his stats. That's why he's always whiffing on terrible block attempts rather than actually play good defense. That's a better motor than Wiggins, but that still isn't the effort that needs to be there on the defensive side of the ball.

It simply sucks Butler misses games but it's not because the guy doesn't work hard or doesn't want to be out there. Is certainly a negative about him but rarely question his commitment to the game. Even Towns I do but I think it's because he hasn't figured it out not because he doesn't want to. Wiggins is a completely different story. I don't think he and Towns when it comes to wffort should be compared. It's a different conversation all together. No player is gonna (or should) give 100% every minute out there.

LST did you listen to Jon K's latest podcast? He really listed out the nuances of what has frustrated Butler with Wiggins and/or Towns.

I think with KAT one of the frustrations is that he gives "selfish effort", as I don't know any other way to put it. For example, how often has he worked hard to get a paint bucket, only to be thwarted by the defense. But instead of hustling back in transition D he's turning to the official to complain and slow to get back? Or worse, he's still in the process of dramatizing the foul he thought was committed and flopping around the baseline while the other team is going the other way.

Another example is his useless attempts to block shots that are already well on their way. How often does he (and Dieng has this problem too) leave his feet or tumble to the ground instead of walling up and staying square. It's not sexy but this is what the best interior defenders do. That's all about being smart versus giving maximum effort.

crazy-canuck wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Cam and Hicks...I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, at least with respect to Wiggins. Many of us are frustrated when his level of effort appears so inconsistent. But my issue is his criticism of KAT. Yes, KAT needs to improve on the defensive side of the ball, and I would have no problem with a veteran like Butler calling this out privately and publicly. But Jon K's report was that Butler called KAT out for his effort, and I think that is unfair and misguided. KAT plays hard all the time, and I see little difference between his effort and Jimmy's. Butler's criticism also seems hollow in light of KAT playing 82 games last year and Butler only 59. Perhaps KAT should come out on social media and criticize Butler for taking off more than1/4 of the season.

Lol he tore his fucking meniscus and you talk about it like it was some Kawhi bullshit where he was choosing not to play. KAT plays hard to get his stats. That's why he's always whiffing on terrible block attempts rather than actually play good defense. That's a better motor than Wiggins, but that still isn't the effort that needs to be there on the defensive side of the ball.

It simply sucks Butler misses games but it's not because the guy doesn't work hard or doesn't want to be out there. Is certainly a negative about him but rarely question his commitment to the game. Even Towns I do but I think it's because he hasn't figured it out not because he doesn't want to. Wiggins is a completely different story. I don't think he and Towns when it comes to wffort should be compared. It's a different conversation all together. No player is gonna (or should) give 100% every minute out there.

LST did you listen to Jon K's latest podcast? He really listed out the nuances of what has frustrated Butler with Wiggins and/or Towns.

I think with KAT one of the frustrations is that he gives "selfish effort", as I don't know any other way to put it. For example, how often has he worked hard to get a paint bucket, only to be thwarted by the defense. But instead of hustling back in transition D he's turning to the official to complain and slow to get back? Or worse, he's still in the process of dramatizing the foul he thought was committed and flopping around the baseline while the other team is going the other way.

Another example is his useless attempts to block shots that are already well on their way. How often does he (and Dieng has this problem too) leave his feet or tumble to the ground instead of walling up and staying square. It's not sexy but this is what the best interior defenders do. That's all about being smart versus giving maximum effort.

Its called being a stat padder.

A blocked shot? You can see it in the boxscore under his name.
Being in the right position to thwart a drive? Under team.

Kat loves chasing stats at the expense of team.

With both kat and wiggins, i don't either is lazy, i just think they need to mature and realize what it takes to win in this league. In some ways jimmy is right. Neither of the kids really had to fight to get what they have. The game came easy to them.

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

Thanks for the info. The Bulls recinded the qualifying offer for David Nwaba making him an unrestricted FA. Lip and I drive the bus on this guy and while e doesn't help shooting he does a lot of stuff well...kinda like Brewer or what we have seen from Okogie. I like plugging in these guys in the CARMELO projections and they are pretty much equal. I like Nwaba more but...maybe the difference isn't what i thought it was. The upside for Nwaba is obvious. He is young you can hope he gets better. With Brewer you know what you get and apparently he wants to be here. I wonder if Nwaba is a guy that gets a bit of money or goes someone with a nice chance at a bigger role. I could see him landing in Houston as they rebuild their wing rotation

crazy-canuck wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

Thanks for the info. The Bulls recinded the qualifying offer for David Nwaba making him an unrestricted FA. Lip and I drive the bus on this guy and while e doesn't help shooting he does a lot of stuff well...kinda like Brewer or what we have seen from Okogie. I like plugging in these guys in the CARMELO projections and they are pretty much equal. I like Nwaba more but...maybe the difference isn't what i thought it was. The upside for Nwaba is obvious. He is young you can hope he gets better. With Brewer you know what you get and apparently he wants to be here. I wonder if Nwaba is a guy that gets a bit of money or goes someone with a nice chance at a bigger role. I could see him landing in Houston as they rebuild their wing rotation

Yup, I can totally see Morey plugging in Nwaba to help offset LMB and Ariza.

Bulls max out their worst defensive player and cant bother to spend 1.7 mill on their best defensive player this off season.