Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves

[kekgeek]

Who cares that Gobert cried, it proves that he cares. So Pat Bev balls his eyes out after a play in game win and that is cool but Gobert cries and he isn't manly???? Get out of here. JJ Redick has said players cry all the time.

What I've read on Gobert is he reads everything that is wrote about him and uses it as fuel to get better. He also has a burning desire to win and that is what he cares about.

[Monster]

https://heavy.com/sports/golden-state-warriors/draymond-green-kat-wolves-gobert/

An article on Draymond Green's response to KAT's latest proclamation that it's championship or bust for the Wolves. I have to confess that when I saw KAT's comment last week, I cringed. It was yet another classic cringeworthy comment by KAT. I appreciate the spirit of his comment, but it seemed so obviously out of place and sophomoric. I'm a big fan of KAT's game and I think his on-court immaturity, while troublesome, is over-emphasized by a number of fans. Having said that, he remains a treasure trove of cluelessness in his public comments. He never says anything terrible or reprehensible or anything of that nature. But he too often says stuff that's out of place or just embarrassingly contrived in his own mind.

Something I learned from this article that I didn't know is that Gobert apparently cried when he found out he didn't make the all-star team in 2019. And it seems that Green has repeatedly made fun of him for that. Talk about embarrassing. I thought we were getting a tough guy in Gobert. Hmm. Not that men shouldn't cry. But crying because he didn't make the all-star game? In fairness, Gobert said the tears stemmed from his mom's reaction to him not making the team. OK, guess that's better but.... None of this matters of course, Gobert just needs to swat away a bunch of those floaters from Wiggins, Curry and possibly Draymond Green.

As for KAT, I just wish he had a handler who filtered and controlled his public comments. And I hope KAT's constant whining at the officials doesn't bring Gobert to tears. :)

Ha! Just classic KAT - setting himself up to be mocked by an alpha-dog like Green. KAT would have been much better off saying that our ultimate goal is a title and we have the talent to win it all, but we still have a lot of growing and work to do to get there and it will be a process.....or something like that.

I really, really, really, really hope Ant keeps getting better and matures as a leader of men. He is the key to winning a title eventually.

Tough crowd.

What cliche would have been acceptable for Towns to say?

Let's look back at Gobert not being selected to the All-star game that year. He was coming off a DPOY the previous season and was having the best season of his career and had not been an AS selection yet. He won DPOY that season too. He was probably thinking what else do I need to do?

I already suggested what cliché he could have said instead (see underlined part). I don't think it's that big of a deal, but given KAT's track record, he sort of makes himself an easy target.

Lol. Exactly, Q. It's not a big deal. KAT just makes himself such an easy mark. I honestly feel bad for him. He tries to find the right cliche, but always seems to land on the wrong one. :).

As for Draymond, I like Cam's response. I wish we had someone on the team who would say what Cam wrote.

Lip you kinda laid out my point. It doesn't matter what Towns says (Q you laid out a good thing to say) people are still gonna say it was the wrong thing the wrong cliche etc. To some extent Towns deserves that criticism because there are times stuff he has said came off really poorly. Towns said Championship or bust and while talking about said that it was time for the fans to get a championship that they have wanted etc. Even in a bold statement he was still people pleasing but in some ways this was a bit of a departure for Towns. He was really going for it. I didn't completely hate it although I did also cringe too. Finch laughed it off when it was brought up afterwards. I feel bad for Towns too I think he tries so hard to say the right stuff it doesn't always land well and I think generally speaking he has good intentions. Even if Towns had said what Q suggested said there would still be a headline or dozen that said Towns says they are a championship team etc or whatever BS.

[kekgeek]

Also can I say I've read a lot about this trade is super risky giving up all these picks/assets and I agree there is risk but wasn't there huge risk doing nothing also.

Like before the trade I think the wolves were realistically going to be in the 5-10 seed range and probably closer to 7-9 seed and in the play in game.

Wolves then could of created max cap space renouncing the rights of Dlo, not accepting the team options of Prince and Beasley and renouncing the rights of Pat Bev. Then who are they going to sign to in FA to make this team a legit contender. Like FvF is the only obvious PG better on the market then DLO. The other top tier FA next offseason are Lebron, Jermi Grant, Turner, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes. So I want to know what player changes the wolves future in FA next offseason. Next season was the only time in the Kat/Ant era the wolves were going to have cap space, also it is the last time the middle contacts of Beasley and Beverley were going to be on the books to trade as salary filler.

If the wolves werent going to do the trade they would have had to rely on internal development of Ant, McDaniels, Nowell, Moore, Minott, Naz, Vando and Kessler. Oh wait the wolves still have 6 of those 8 players...

Obviously the wolves could of missed the playoffs next year and got super lucky in the lotto and drafted the French kid and the wolves are the greatest team ever. But that is such a low probability scenario.

We always talk about the risk of trading away the picks, what I understand but I think there is a legit chance doing nothing was more risky because the wolves would of been a low end playoff team, 0% chance to win the title, stuck in mediocrity (better than wolves fans are used to), no cap space, have to make a decision on Dlo who no easy replacement, lose out on the trade assets/salary filler of Beasley and Beverly.

Wolves would of been stuck in good but only great if Ant, McDaniels, Nowell, Naz, Moore, Minott, Kessler or Vando took a huge leap and those players are still on the wolves outside of Vando and Kessler (be honest with yourself do you think there a was huge needle moving jump from either of those guys)

[Q-is-here]

Also can I say I've read a lot about this trade is super risky giving up all these picks/assets and I agree there is risk but wasn't there huge risk doing nothing also.

Like before the trade I think the wolves were realistically going to be in the 5-10 seed range and probably closer to 7-9 seed and in the play in game.

Wolves then could of created max cap space renouncing the rights of Dlo, not accepting the team options of Prince and Beasley and renouncing the rights of Pat Bev. Then who are they going to sign to in FA to make this team a legit contender. Like FvF is the only obvious PG better on the market then DLO. The other top tier FA next offseason are Lebron, Jermi Grant, Turner, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes. So I want to know what player changes the wolves future in FA next offseason. Next season was the only time in the Kat/Ant era the wolves were going to have cap space, also it is the last time the middle contacts of Beasley and Beverley were going to be on the books to trade as salary filler.

If the wolves werent going to do the trade they would have had to rely on internal development of Ant, McDaniels, Nowell, Moore, Minott, Naz, Vando and Kessler. Oh wait the wolves still have 6 of those 8 players...

Obviously the wolves could of missed the playoffs next year and got super lucky in the lotto and drafted the French kid and the wolves are the greatest team ever. But that is such a low probability scenario.

We always talk about the risk of trading away the picks, what I understand but I think there is a legit chance doing nothing was more risky because the wolves would of been a low end playoff team, 0% chance to win the title, stuck in mediocrity (better than wolves fans are used to), no cap space, have to make a decision on Dlo who no easy replacement, lose out on the trade assets/salary filler of Beasley and Beverly.

Wolves would of been stuck in good but only great if Ant, McDaniels, Nowell, Naz, Moore, Minott, Kessler or Vando took a huge leap and those players are still on the wolves outside of Vando and Kessler (be honest with yourself do you think there a was huge needle moving jump from either of those guys)

Good points Kek. I kind of a agree with folks that say it wasn't quite time yet to make the big move, i.e. you do that after you are already great like the Bucks did with Holiday to get the final piece.

The problem is you can't forecast when a team like the Jazz are going to suddenly make a player like Gobert available - a player that fits so perfectly next to KAT in terms of his weaknesses. The Bucks were lucky that Holiday was available when he was. The Wolves are being a bit more speculative about their young talent, but I think they rolled the dice and said "why not now?".

[Lipoli390]

Also can I say I've read a lot about this trade is super risky giving up all these picks/assets and I agree there is risk but wasn't there huge risk doing nothing also.

Like before the trade I think the wolves were realistically going to be in the 5-10 seed range and probably closer to 7-9 seed and in the play in game.

Wolves then could of created max cap space renouncing the rights of Dlo, not accepting the team options of Prince and Beasley and renouncing the rights of Pat Bev. Then who are they going to sign to in FA to make this team a legit contender. Like FvF is the only obvious PG better on the market then DLO. The other top tier FA next offseason are Lebron, Jermi Grant, Turner, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes. So I want to know what player changes the wolves future in FA next offseason. Next season was the only time in the Kat/Ant era the wolves were going to have cap space, also it is the last time the middle contacts of Beasley and Beverley were going to be on the books to trade as salary filler.

If the wolves werent going to do the trade they would have had to rely on internal development of Ant, McDaniels, Nowell, Moore, Minott, Naz, Vando and Kessler. Oh wait the wolves still have 6 of those 8 players...

Obviously the wolves could of missed the playoffs next year and got super lucky in the lotto and drafted the French kid and the wolves are the greatest team ever. But that is such a low probability scenario.

We always talk about the risk of trading away the picks, what I understand but I think there is a legit chance doing nothing was more risky because the wolves would of been a low end playoff team, 0% chance to win the title, stuck in mediocrity (better than wolves fans are used to), no cap space, have to make a decision on Dlo who no easy replacement, lose out on the trade assets/salary filler of Beasley and Beverly.

Wolves would of been stuck in good but only great if Ant, McDaniels, Nowell, Naz, Moore, Minott, Kessler or Vando took a huge leap and those players are still on the wolves outside of Vando and Kessler (be honest with yourself do you think there a was huge needle moving jump from either of those guys)

That's a fair way to look at things, Kek. But I don't think the choice was a binary one - i.e., to either pull the trigger on a massive Gobert deal or hope for the best in next Summer's free agency. My view is that the Wolves could have gotten what they needed through a far more modest trade for Myles Turner or Clint Capela. That sort of deal would have allowed the Wolves to keep Kessler and Beverley along with most of the future draft capital they traded away for Gobert while also preserving cap space for next summer.

Based on comments by Finch and the Wolves refusal to trade McDaniels, it's clear that the Wolves coaching staff and front office have a lot of confidence in development of McDaniels and Nowell. That necessarily means they were expecting significant improvement in the team simply through the development of three young guys - Edwards, McDaniels and Nowell. They further improved the team with the addition of Kyle Anderson. Trading Beasley, Naz, Bolmaro and a future pick for Myles Turner or Clint Capela would have provided further significant improvement. That's' s the more incremental approach I would have taken because it would have preserved assets and flexibility for further adjustments going forward. (Of course, I don't know what it would have taken to acquire either one, but I think I'm in the ball park at least for Turner).

But I also understand your point that my more incremental approach had it's own risk. The risk of waiting while the chance to acquire a player like Gobert is an important consideration. And of course, Myles Turner has an injury risk associated with him.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm a bit more upbeat on the trade that landed Rudy Gobert, but I generally agree with Lip's sentiment above. I wouldn't have gone all in quite yet either. However, I fully understand the risks kek broke down in his post and have repeatedly made most of those same points as well, especially as it pertains to free agency and the point guard position. The Timberwolves were in a tricky situation given that they weren't yet a contender but were too good to be a bottom-feeder. Basically, they either had to make a significant move this off-season or next or they wouldn't have the same opportunity in the future due to a lack of tradable salaries.

My preference would have been to acquire Jakob Poeltl or Clint Capela to pair next to Karl-Anthony Towns in exchange for Malik Beasley and a first-round pick. Obviously, I don't know if that was feasible, but that's where my focus would have been. I haven't been on the Myles Turner bandwagon in quite some time. I think he's a poor rebounder for his size, which all but kills the allure of playing another traditional big next to Towns. The Timberwolves front office aimed much higher in Gobert and got the best available player besides Kevin Durant. I see their vision. I respect and admire that they got their guy. And I think Minnesota will be competing for a championship sooner rather than later. As a fan, it's hard to get too upset with that even if it's not the path that I would have preferred.

[Lipoli390]

I was wondering what it would have taken for the Wolves to get Clint Capela. When I consider all the things I would have preferred to see the Wolves do instead of the Gobert deal, it would have been trading for Capela. It's impossible to know exactly what it would have taken, but I feel very safe in saying that it would have taken a lot less than it took to get Gobert. The Hawks were trying to shore up their defense and take a big step forward back into the playoffs. That's what prompted them to give up three picks for Murray - an excellent defender who could also relieve Trae Young of some of his playmaking and ball-handling responsibilities. I suspect that the Hawks would have loved to get some of those three picks back while also getting another player to upgrade their defense.

My guess is that the Wolves could have gotten Capela for Vando, two future firsts and either Beasley or Beverley. If I'm right, the Wolves would have substantially upgraded their rebounding and interior defense by adding Capela, but they'd also still have Kessler, Bolmaro, both their 2027 and 2029 first-round picks and ether Beasley or Beverley. Capela is two years younger than Gobert on a much more team-friendly contract. I would have felt much better about that deal.

[Monster]

I was wondering what it would have taken for the Wolves to get Clint Capela. When I consider all the things I would have preferred to see the Wolves do instead of the Gobert deal, it would have been trading for Capela. It's impossible to know exactly what it would have taken, but I feel very safe in saying that it would have taken a lot less than it took to get Gobert. The Hawks were trying to shore up their defense and take a big step forward back into the playoffs. That's what prompted them to give up three picks for Murray - an excellent defender who could also relieve Trae Young of some of his playmaking and ball-handling responsibilities. I suspect that the Hawks would have loved to get some of those three picks back while also getting another player to upgrade their defense.

My guess is that the Wolves could have gotten Capela for Vando, two future firsts and either Beasley or Beverley. If I'm right, the Wolves would have substantially upgraded their rebounding and interior defense by adding Capela, but they'd also still have Kessler, Bolmaro, both their 2027 and 2029 first-round picks and ether Beasley or Beverley. Capela is two years younger than Gobert on a much more team-friendly contract. I would have felt much better about that deal.

It would have been a kick in the groin when the Wolves could have probably had Capela for one asset in the Covington trade if they had wanted him. I was an advocate of doing just that at the time although I thought the return they got from Covington was pretty good. I think if the Wolves would have given up that much for Capela people would have been more upset than maybe even this Gobert deal.

[Lipoli390]

I was wondering what it would have taken for the Wolves to get Clint Capela. When I consider all the things I would have preferred to see the Wolves do instead of the Gobert deal, it would have been trading for Capela. It's impossible to know exactly what it would have taken, but I feel very safe in saying that it would have taken a lot less than it took to get Gobert. The Hawks were trying to shore up their defense and take a big step forward back into the playoffs. That's what prompted them to give up three picks for Murray - an excellent defender who could also relieve Trae Young of some of his playmaking and ball-handling responsibilities. I suspect that the Hawks would have loved to get some of those three picks back while also getting another player to upgrade their defense.

My guess is that the Wolves could have gotten Capela for Vando, two future firsts and either Beasley or Beverley. If I'm right, the Wolves would have substantially upgraded their rebounding and interior defense by adding Capela, but they'd also still have Kessler, Bolmaro, both their 2027 and 2029 first-round picks and ether Beasley or Beverley. Capela is two years younger than Gobert on a much more team-friendly contract. I would have felt much better about that deal.

It would have been a kick in the groin when the Wolves could have probably had Capela for one asset in the Covington trade if they had wanted him. I was an advocate of doing just that at the time although I thought the return they got from Covington was pretty good. I think if the Wolves would have given up that much for Capela people would have been more upset than maybe even this Gobert deal.

Well, I remember being unhappy the Wolves didn't simply swap Covington, Jordan Bell and a future 2nd-round pick for Covington. And that's in spite of the fact that I've always liked Beasley. But Rosas was obsessed with going small just as Finch seems obsessed now with going big.

I don't think fans or the League would have been nearly as hard on the Wolves for the Capela deal I suggested. In my scenario, the Wolves would have only given up two further 1st-round picks rather than four. They'd still have Kessler, Bolmaro and either Beasley or Beverley. Moreover, the Wolves would have a terrific rebounding defensive center who is two years younger than Gobert and on a MUCH cheaper contract.

[TheFuture]

I was wondering what it would have taken for the Wolves to get Clint Capela. When I consider all the things I would have preferred to see the Wolves do instead of the Gobert deal, it would have been trading for Capela. It's impossible to know exactly what it would have taken, but I feel very safe in saying that it would have taken a lot less than it took to get Gobert. The Hawks were trying to shore up their defense and take a big step forward back into the playoffs. That's what prompted them to give up three picks for Murray - an excellent defender who could also relieve Trae Young of some of his playmaking and ball-handling responsibilities. I suspect that the Hawks would have loved to get some of those three picks back while also getting another player to upgrade their defense.

My guess is that the Wolves could have gotten Capela for Vando, two future firsts and either Beasley or Beverley. If I'm right, the Wolves would have substantially upgraded their rebounding and interior defense by adding Capela, but they'd also still have Kessler, Bolmaro, both their 2027 and 2029 first-round picks and ether Beasley or Beverley. Capela is two years younger than Gobert on a much more team-friendly contract. I would have felt much better about that deal.

I wasn't initially happy with the trade because I believe the team bid against themselves against the notoriously savvy trader Ainge. That being said, Gobert is world's apart from Capela or Turner. The guy honestly should have 5 DPoYs, is a future hall of famer, has proven to be durable,, and we got him to see if this can work now with KAT. The more I think about it, the better it is. Gives 3 years to decide on KAT. Maybe more importantly, we have a proven team around Ant, because if shit doesn't work out, it is plenty beneficial to prove to him that we are willing to go win. Minnesota should not want to lose that talent and personality.