Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

Thanks for the info. The Bulls recinded the qualifying offer for David Nwaba making him an unrestricted FA. Lip and I drive the bus on this guy and while e doesn't help shooting he does a lot of stuff well...kinda like Brewer or what we have seen from Okogie. I like plugging in these guys in the CARMELO projections and they are pretty much equal. I like Nwaba more but...maybe the difference isn't what i thought it was. The upside for Nwaba is obvious. He is young you can hope he gets better. With Brewer you know what you get and apparently he wants to be here. I wonder if Nwaba is a guy that gets a bit of money or goes someone with a nice chance at a bigger role. I could see him landing in Houston as they rebuild their wing rotation

Well Monster, you and I have been touting Nwaba for a long time. But I think we both suspect that he has his sights set elsewhere. I've thought for some time that Thibodeau would end up signing Corey Brewer. It looks like that's going to happen. But wow, that's a pretty poor shooting collection of wings/guards we'd have on our bench with Brewer, Okogie, Rose. At this point, the Wolves almost have to sign Swaggy.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

Thanks for the info. The Bulls recinded the qualifying offer for David Nwaba making him an unrestricted FA. Lip and I drive the bus on this guy and while e doesn't help shooting he does a lot of stuff well...kinda like Brewer or what we have seen from Okogie. I like plugging in these guys in the CARMELO projections and they are pretty much equal. I like Nwaba more but...maybe the difference isn't what i thought it was. The upside for Nwaba is obvious. He is young you can hope he gets better. With Brewer you know what you get and apparently he wants to be here. I wonder if Nwaba is a guy that gets a bit of money or goes someone with a nice chance at a bigger role. I could see him landing in Houston as they rebuild their wing rotation

Well Monster, you and I have been touting Nwaba for a long time. But I think we both suspect that he has his sights set elsewhere. I've thought for some time that Thibodeau would end up signing Corey Brewer. It looks like that's going to happen. But wow, that's a pretty poor shooting collection of wings/guards we'd have on our bench with Brewer, Okogie, Rose. At this point, the Wolves almost have to sign Swaggy.

If only they could convince Brewer every few games he was actually playing for a different team. He SEEMS to start off hot when he goes to a new team during the season. :) As much as Brewer wouldn't help shooting sadly I think he would have helped this team last year when they just needed someone who could play. I get why they didn't go for someone like Rush but be probably would have helped also. It's interesting to see some articles written about FA actually have MGH listed as a guy worth considering.

Wouldn't it be kinda ironic/weird/funny if we ended up with both Tolliver and Brewer back on this roster? I mean Belly leaving closed the door on the Kahn era except it didn't to some extent because Kahn signed Tolliver who basically replaces Belly and it was actually a pretty solid move. Brewer and Tolliver were also guys that Kahn probably should not have moved on from just because they were probably as good or better than some of the guys that were brought in. It's a homer take but I always thought some of these guys staying for a few years maybhave helped that roster grow more just having some good guys that did the right things. Brewer would be another asset as a guy with some positive energy etc.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

Thanks for the info. The Bulls recinded the qualifying offer for David Nwaba making him an unrestricted FA. Lip and I drive the bus on this guy and while e doesn't help shooting he does a lot of stuff well...kinda like Brewer or what we have seen from Okogie. I like plugging in these guys in the CARMELO projections and they are pretty much equal. I like Nwaba more but...maybe the difference isn't what i thought it was. The upside for Nwaba is obvious. He is young you can hope he gets better. With Brewer you know what you get and apparently he wants to be here. I wonder if Nwaba is a guy that gets a bit of money or goes someone with a nice chance at a bigger role. I could see him landing in Houston as they rebuild their wing rotation

Well Monster, you and I have been touting Nwaba for a long time. But I think we both suspect that he has his sights set elsewhere. I've thought for some time that Thibodeau would end up signing Corey Brewer. It looks like that's going to happen. But wow, that's a pretty poor shooting collection of wings/guards we'd have on our bench with Brewer, Okogie, Rose. At this point, the Wolves almost have to sign Swaggy.

If only they could convince Brewer every few games he was actually playing for a different team. He SEEMS to start off hot when he goes to a new team during the season. :) As much as Brewer wouldn't help shooting sadly I think he would have helped this team last year when they just needed someone who could play. I get why they didn't go for someone like Rush but be probably would have helped also. It's interesting to see some articles written about FA actually have MGH listed as a guy worth considering.

Wouldn't it be kinda ironic/weird/funny if we ended up with both Tolliver and Brewer back on this roster? I mean Belly leaving closed the door on the Kahn era except it didn't to some extent because Kahn signed Tolliver who basically replaces Belly and it was actually a pretty solid move. Brewer and Tolliver were also guys that Kahn probably should not have moved on from just because they were probably as good or better than some of the guys that were brought in. It's a homer take but I always thought some of these guys staying for a few years maybhave helped that roster grow more just having some good guys that did the right things. Brewer would be another asset as a guy with some positive energy etc.

I agree with you on the positive energy Corey brings. I think that's especially important to the Wolves given the negative energy that Thibodeau emits along with Wiggins' lack of energy. Butler and KAT both bring high energy, but there's some obvious negativity between them. I love the energy Rose brought when we picked him up. I'm a big believer in talent, but so much of the NBA game goes beyond talent and success, boiling down to mindset and what we call heart. We use a number of different terms, including mental toughness, confidence, chemistry and positive energy. Corey Brewer is all heart and, while not physically strong, he's mentally tough and brings a high level of positive energy to the court and the locker room. But boy, I'd really like to have a bona fide 3-point marksman off the bench as part of our rotation.

Yeah, why the lack of talk about OJ Mayo? He's eligible again and reportedly looks decent. He was in the Rose/Beasley/Love/Collison/Westbrook/Lopez brothers draft, so he should still have some years left. Perhaps he's too much of what we have with Wiggins, but he'd be an interesting signing.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:According to wolfson, brewer really wants to play for the wolves and will gladly take the minimum. Vince has also shown interest for the minimum.

Cunningham and young are also interested, but they want more than the vet. minimum.

Thanks for the info. The Bulls recinded the qualifying offer for David Nwaba making him an unrestricted FA. Lip and I drive the bus on this guy and while e doesn't help shooting he does a lot of stuff well...kinda like Brewer or what we have seen from Okogie. I like plugging in these guys in the CARMELO projections and they are pretty much equal. I like Nwaba more but...maybe the difference isn't what i thought it was. The upside for Nwaba is obvious. He is young you can hope he gets better. With Brewer you know what you get and apparently he wants to be here. I wonder if Nwaba is a guy that gets a bit of money or goes someone with a nice chance at a bigger role. I could see him landing in Houston as they rebuild their wing rotation

Well Monster, you and I have been touting Nwaba for a long time. But I think we both suspect that he has his sights set elsewhere. I've thought for some time that Thibodeau would end up signing Corey Brewer. It looks like that's going to happen. But wow, that's a pretty poor shooting collection of wings/guards we'd have on our bench with Brewer, Okogie, Rose. At this point, the Wolves almost have to sign Swaggy.

If only they could convince Brewer every few games he was actually playing for a different team. He SEEMS to start off hot when he goes to a new team during the season. :) As much as Brewer wouldn't help shooting sadly I think he would have helped this team last year when they just needed someone who could play. I get why they didn't go for someone like Rush but be probably would have helped also. It's interesting to see some articles written about FA actually have MGH listed as a guy worth considering.

Wouldn't it be kinda ironic/weird/funny if we ended up with both Tolliver and Brewer back on this roster? I mean Belly leaving closed the door on the Kahn era except it didn't to some extent because Kahn signed Tolliver who basically replaces Belly and it was actually a pretty solid move. Brewer and Tolliver were also guys that Kahn probably should not have moved on from just because they were probably as good or better than some of the guys that were brought in. It's a homer take but I always thought some of these guys staying for a few years maybhave helped that roster grow more just having some good guys that did the right things. Brewer would be another asset as a guy with some positive energy etc.

I agree with you on the positive energy Corey brings. I think that's especially important to the Wolves given the negative energy that Thibodeau emits along with Wiggins' lack of energy. Butler and KAT both bring high energy, but there's some obvious negativity between them. I love the energy Rose brought when we picked him up. I'm a big believer in talent, but so much of the NBA game goes beyond talent and success, boiling down to mindset and what we call heart. We use a number of different terms, including mental toughness, confidence, chemistry and positive energy. Corey Brewer is all heart and, while not physically strong, he's mentally tough and brings a high level of positive energy to the court and the locker room. But boy, I'd really like to have a bona fide 3-point marksman off the bench as part of our rotation.

Wouldn't a lot of teams like another 3 point shooter? :) Yes the Wolves have a need there but that's why getting Tolliver was a big deal. I thought it was funny Jon K spoke about Lebron and the Lakers and said the Wolves might have more 3 point shooting on their roster. Without looking it's a fair point and regardless was pretty funny. I keep pointing to the Miami model. They did a ton of drive and kick and just got them up also. Brewer will chuck a few 3's up. No he won't make them but other than shots at the rim he doesn't shoot well from anywhere else so...it also sad how high of a percentage of his 3's are from the corners and he doesn't make those either. I'm still holding out hope for something better. If Brewer is the worst we can do for a vet wing there are worse outcomes and ai am well aware of his faults.

Didn't Corey Brewer lead the league one season in corner 3pt percentage?

KiwiMatt wrote:Didn't Corey Brewer lead the league one season in corner 3pt percentage?

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-2012-13-courtvision-awards-leading-scorers/Led in scoring not sure about percentage.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I still don't get how KAT's effort can't be criticized but Wiggins' can. It's silly. KAT completely shits the bed on routine and get's out worked by bigs who crash the glass (see Capela in the playoffs). The fact is they're both young and learning what it takes to be successful in the league. I see growth from both of them, albeit slow growth. Jimmy is right in criticizing both of them, but has no idea how to turn criticism into a change of behavior with his public display. I think both KAT and Wiggins probably believe they're giving it their all because they work hard in practice, in the off season, and have a lot of responsibility for young players during games. You can't expect them to know anything outside of their experience. I wish Jimmy would be more open and invite KAT and Wiggins to work with him all summer, but it's not in his nature right now. Ultimately I see everything as very simple communication issues that will be solved once they all see eachother. This team simply needs to get back into training camp and pre-camp workout and hash it out. Too much boredom right now.

I think there's a big difference between KAT and Wiggins when it comes to effort. But otherwise I agree with you in having no problem with Butler criticizing either one for failing to live up to his level of effort. My problem is with Jimmy's public criticism, especially his indirect use of a media crony followed by his video antics. As you said, Jimmy needs to figure out how to make constructive use of his take on the level of effort he sees in these guys. The problem is that he's 29 years old and had a similar problem relating to teammates in Chicago. What you suggested he should do is obvious. The fact that Jimmy didn't do what you're suggesting and chose instead to simply vent to a media crony tells us it's unlikley he'll take the right approach or that he even wants to.

I think after last year the on court effort of KAT and Wiggins is pretty much on par. I still believe if Wiggins' shot was falling we wouldn't hear anything about his effort. To me both of these players have huge lapses on the court, you can call it effort or motor or a lack of concentration, but it's just splitting hairs.

As for the Butler issue, just don't think it's too far gone. The boredom of summer combined with social media and the 24/7 news cycle is making this seem way more complicated than it is. An hour over a drink can easily smooth this over. If the Wolves want to hire me to mediate I'm available.

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I still don't get how KAT's effort can't be criticized but Wiggins' can. It's silly. KAT completely shits the bed on routine and get's out worked by bigs who crash the glass (see Capela in the playoffs). The fact is they're both young and learning what it takes to be successful in the league. I see growth from both of them, albeit slow growth. Jimmy is right in criticizing both of them, but has no idea how to turn criticism into a change of behavior with his public display. I think both KAT and Wiggins probably believe they're giving it their all because they work hard in practice, in the off season, and have a lot of responsibility for young players during games. You can't expect them to know anything outside of their experience. I wish Jimmy would be more open and invite KAT and Wiggins to work with him all summer, but it's not in his nature right now. Ultimately I see everything as very simple communication issues that will be solved once they all see eachother. This team simply needs to get back into training camp and pre-camp workout and hash it out. Too much boredom right now.

I think there's a big difference between KAT and Wiggins when it comes to effort. But otherwise I agree with you in having no problem with Butler criticizing either one for failing to live up to his level of effort. My problem is with Jimmy's public criticism, especially his indirect use of a media crony followed by his video antics. As you said, Jimmy needs to figure out how to make constructive use of his take on the level of effort he sees in these guys. The problem is that he's 29 years old and had a similar problem relating to teammates in Chicago. What you suggested he should do is obvious. The fact that Jimmy didn't do what you're suggesting and chose instead to simply vent to a media crony tells us it's unlikley he'll take the right approach or that he even wants to.

I think after last year the on court effort of KAT and Wiggins is pretty much on par. I still believe if Wiggins' shot was falling we wouldn't hear anything about his effort. To me both of these players have huge lapses on the court, you can call it effort or motor or a lack of concentration, but it's just splitting hairs.

As for the Butler issue, just don't think it's too far gone. The boredom of summer combined with social media and the 24/7 news cycle is making this seem way more complicated than it is. An hour over a drink can easily smooth this over. If the Wolves want to hire me to mediate I'm available.

The notion that KAT and Wiggins were on par last season in competitiveness and effort is way off the mark in my view. I was talking with another season ticket holder about this at lunch today and he thought Butler's criticism of KAT's effort was insane. That's from another person who, like me and LST, have seen these guys live a lot.

I agree with you, however, that the Butler/chemistry issue can be addressed. It take a physical altercation in practice to start the process, but ultimately if these guys are about winning, they'll figure it out. The guy who is unwilling to move on from this and have his teammate's back is the guy I'd want to get rid of. But like you, I don't see it coming to that.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I still don't get how KAT's effort can't be criticized but Wiggins' can. It's silly. KAT completely shits the bed on routine and get's out worked by bigs who crash the glass (see Capela in the playoffs). The fact is they're both young and learning what it takes to be successful in the league. I see growth from both of them, albeit slow growth. Jimmy is right in criticizing both of them, but has no idea how to turn criticism into a change of behavior with his public display. I think both KAT and Wiggins probably believe they're giving it their all because they work hard in practice, in the off season, and have a lot of responsibility for young players during games. You can't expect them to know anything outside of their experience. I wish Jimmy would be more open and invite KAT and Wiggins to work with him all summer, but it's not in his nature right now. Ultimately I see everything as very simple communication issues that will be solved once they all see eachother. This team simply needs to get back into training camp and pre-camp workout and hash it out. Too much boredom right now.

I think there's a big difference between KAT and Wiggins when it comes to effort. But otherwise I agree with you in having no problem with Butler criticizing either one for failing to live up to his level of effort. My problem is with Jimmy's public criticism, especially his indirect use of a media crony followed by his video antics. As you said, Jimmy needs to figure out how to make constructive use of his take on the level of effort he sees in these guys. The problem is that he's 29 years old and had a similar problem relating to teammates in Chicago. What you suggested he should do is obvious. The fact that Jimmy didn't do what you're suggesting and chose instead to simply vent to a media crony tells us it's unlikley he'll take the right approach or that he even wants to.

I think after last year the on court effort of KAT and Wiggins is pretty much on par. I still believe if Wiggins' shot was falling we wouldn't hear anything about his effort. To me both of these players have huge lapses on the court, you can call it effort or motor or a lack of concentration, but it's just splitting hairs.

As for the Butler issue, just don't think it's too far gone. The boredom of summer combined with social media and the 24/7 news cycle is making this seem way more complicated than it is. An hour over a drink can easily smooth this over. If the Wolves want to hire me to mediate I'm available.

The notion that KAT and Wiggins were on par last season in competitiveness and effort is way off the mark in my view. I was talking with another season ticket holder about this at lunch today and he thought Butler's criticism of KAT's effort was insane. That's from another person who, like me and LST, have seen these guys live a lot.

I agree with you, however, that the Butler/chemistry issue can be addressed. It take a physical altercation in practice to start the process, but ultimately if these guys are about winning, they'll figure it out. The guy who is unwilling to move on from this and have his teammate's back is the guy I'd want to get rid of. But like you, I don't see it coming to that.

I've been to a ton of nba games and was a former wolves season ticket holder when I lived in Minnesota and never had the unique ability to know the differences in effort you claim to see. I haven't noticed a difference in all those years of recognizing changed effort in person or on the television. But if it works as evidence for you great. The result is still that KAT is a shitty defender in spite of all his hubris. Saying he tries harder because you have season tickets is kind of a silly argument for me.