Playoffs thread

[Monster]

Yeah, Durant's length in the "modern day" game is even more dangerous because now he can play closer to the basket defensively and put all that length to good use.

Isaac is off the board before 7, no question about it at this point IMO.

Durant is this era's guy changing what a 7 guy can do in the league. KG and Dirk did in 20 years ago. I don't know if anyone will every have the shooting and ball handling combined again with the length Durant has but we are already seeing guys with crazy length and legit skills all over the place. Some of them will at best be Anthony Randolph but some are gonna end up being worthwhile to pretty good maybe even great.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, Durant's length in the "modern day" game is even more dangerous because now he can play closer to the basket defensively and put all that length to good use.

Isaac is off the board before 7, no question about it at this point IMO.

Durant is this era's guy changing what a 7 guy can do in the league. KG and Dirk did in 20 years ago. I don't know if anyone will every have the shooting and ball handling combined again with the length Durant has but we are already seeing guys with crazy length and legit skills all over the place. Some of them will at best be Anthony Randolph but some are gonna end up being worthwhile to pretty good maybe even great.

Sure. Look at Giannis in Milwaukee. Many believe he's a potential MVP. They very well could be this generation's Dirk + KG...

[thedoper]

Imagine if Tim Thomas and Darius Miles were prospects this year. They'd be the surefire 1 and 2 picks with their length and athleticism. If only all 7 footers were like KG, Dirk, and KD.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Imagine if Tim Thomas and Darius Miles were prospects this year. They'd be the surefire 1 and 2 picks with their length and athleticism. If only all 7 footers were like KG, Dirk, and KD.

How dare you omit Eddie Griffin from that mythical draft!

[Monster]

Imagine if Tim Thomas and Darius Miles were prospects this year. They'd be the surefire 1 and 2 picks with their length and athleticism. If only all 7 footers were like KG, Dirk, and KD.

And then you have Draymond Green who basically measures out as a fat SF but is one of the most versatile bigs in the entire league. He is a different type of player but he is probably this generation's Charles Barkley.

[thedoper]

Imagine if Tim Thomas and Darius Miles were prospects this year. They'd be the surefire 1 and 2 picks with their length and athleticism. If only all 7 footers were like KG, Dirk, and KD.

And then you have Draymond Green who basically measures out as a fat SF but is one of the most versatile bigs in the entire league. He is a different type of player but he is probably this generation's Charles Barkley.

This is why we should draft Tyler Lydon. He had 13.6% body fat.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Imagine if Tim Thomas and Darius Miles were prospects this year. They'd be the surefire 1 and 2 picks with their length and athleticism. If only all 7 footers were like KG, Dirk, and KD.

Right. Skills are first and foremost, then body type/athletic profile is secondary. Dirk and Durant's length allowed them to utilize their feathery outside touch in more situations than if they were shorter. But it wouldn't have mattered much if they didn't have the shooting touch to begin with.

[BloopOracle]

Fuck Kevin Durant that's what I have to say. He has ruined the playoffs for the foreseeable future with his wimpy move and now we have the news that he is open to taking a small paycut to stay with GSW. I will give him credit for 0.3 rings he wins this year I don't care how salty it sounds it's honestly all he deserves

Meh.

In a basketball culture obsessed with rings... Durant put himself to get his ring(s) with teammates he likes to play with. Or, he could have stayed in OKC and been ripped for not winning rings while playing ISO ball. LeBron James set the course here in a couple of ways.

1. Teaming up with stars. See Miami.
2. People forget... if you win. Think about all the bad will with James' Decision. Yet, he soared up the "all time best player" list while with Miami AND was able to return to Cleveland a fucking hero. What?! That's a far cry from all the negative nancy coverage he had initially.
3. We're victims of the moment in all aspects of life. In 15 years, people are going to think about HOW Durant got those possible rings a lot less than the sheer number of them. Likewise, he would have been labeled "career loser" had he stayed in OKC and didn't win... regardless of the "warrior going down with his team" and context and everything else that might have prevented a title. MOST fans simply don't get that deep into it.

While I prefer stars staying with teams and building champions that way... the cats already out of the bag. So I find it disingenuous to rip Durant but not others (see James) for thinking all-time legacy via rings.

There was a heated 10+ post argument in this thread where I have already ripped apart all 3 of your points as desperate reaches to attempt to match Durant's weak move with anyone else but I don't want to post it again.

Meh.



I vehemently disagree. Simple as that. Especially #3. I don't even know how that one is arguable or why anybody would argue that one. There's too much NBA history (and examples of all kinds in modern-day life) to support it.

yes we're all prisoners of the moment but that only helps Durant right now with people trying to say just enjoy the greatness etc. I think he will only look worse, with comment from former players attacking him saying things like Durant is the kid who joined his bullies so they would stop picking on him. It doesn't matter how many years pass, there is zero NBA history supporting your point no top 5 player has ever jumped ship and joined the best team in the league. You posted a bunch of lesser scenario's like others did trying to compare the two but no one has topped what Durant did and basketball historians will remember that.

No. You seem to be going by your own personal opinions. I'm going with actual NBA history.

In the end, titles matter more than context. They have in the past... and there's no reason to think that's changed. If anything, it's cemented in how things work even more now.

Basically, I think you're looking at it on a very micro level (no player this good on a team this good)... vs. me looking at it on a more macro level. I'm not saying you're wrong for that. Only that we do have case after case after case in NBA history when the micro view of a situation is swallowed up by the macro view.

- James ditches Cleveland. NO!!! LeQUIT!!!! ... time passes, he wins... James is an all-time great and can return a hero.
- Kobe Bryant angles for LA... petulant high schooler is a punk... time passes, he wins... Kobe Bryant is one of the all-time fiercest competitors.
- The 2002 WCF is a sham... and the Lakers title is a farce! ... time passes... Nobody is taking that title away from them despite Game 6.
- Miami wins a title as a flawed team in 2006 amid more swirling officiating controversies... time passes... nobody cares. A title is a title.
- Nash's bloody nose in Game 1 and the suspensions for Game 5... the Suns were screwed! ... time passes... the Spurs won the 2007 NBA title with ease. Nash and D'Antoni in Phoenix failed.
- Houston only won titles because Jordan was gone... time passes... Olajuwon led back-to-back championship teams.
- Len Bias died... Kevin McHale broke his foot... the Rockets fell apart via drugs and injuries... the entire West sucks balls... the Lakers were gifted the title... time passes... the '87 Lakers were inarguably one of the greatest teams ever and Magic is >> Bird because of the extra titles he had via that series.
- Laimbeer did NOT foul Kareem! And why were fans on the court!!! The Pistons were screwed in the 1988 Finals. The Lakers title is fraudulent... time passes... the Lakers had one of the greatest runs in NBA history in the 1980s.
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar demands to be traded... basically to the Lakers or Knicks and nobody else. Time passes... what? Who cares! Look at those extra rings!

NBA history is littered with interesting nuggets about how teams were formed/created/destroyed. In the end, most are either forgotten... or discarded when considering the individual legacies of each player. We still see Bill Russell's 11 rings and don't put too much stock that free agency wasn't around and there were only 8 teams for some of those seasons. He was the ultimate winner regardless.

Like so many other "never happened before!" events that precede Duncan's move... there will be another one right around the corner that will occupy our time, scorn, frustration and attention. Meanwhile... people will look at Duncan's stats and then count his number of rings when comparing him to other all-time greats.

They won't be giving him 0.3 credit for that title... any more than people give James only 0.743 credit for winning a title in Miami. It's simply not what we've seen historically.

The problem is that people don't want to see what GSW are doing more than once, everyone knows who is taking home the trophy at the end of the day and lack of competition kills any drama. Sure there have been certain dominant runs by the 2002? Lakers for example but the great teams were always pushed. Stockton and Malone pushed Jordan to be great. When you're pushed to be great, that's when the flu game happens, that's when Jordan hits that infamous step back shot. When you're down 3-1 and klay responds with that game against the thunder last year, pulling up from mid court and going unconscious hitting amazing shot after shot. You get stuff like the ridiculous game 7 of the Finals last year. There are teams virtually every year who at least have a puncher's chance of winning it all that would push these super teams to be their best. Now we have nothing, we went from a battle to the end to GSW absolutely steamrolling everyone. There are comments from Jerry West where he talks about how he sometimes feels bad during the playoffs looking up at the scoreboard and watching competitiveness be destroyed. Klay just made a comment the other day talking about how "every playoff game last year was a battle, this year we're 13-0"

People are going to get sick of this fast, it's fine now because a lot were still hopeful for a good finals but what if they happens again next year, and the next? It very well could as neither team is going anywhere. I think it is a dangerous situation for the NBA and they could lose viewership, if people wanted to watch a team murder everyone they play the Olympic basketball games would draw more viewers. They have 4 players that are better than any player on half the teams in the NBA, it has to reach a breaking point. I think the unrest that Durant's move will create over the next few years will explode and follow him for the rest of his career, and he like Lebron are the first superstars to have their entire careers documented in the HD from the very start. I don't see public opinion fading and forgetting as much about how he won those rings when we have every part of his saga documented in vivid detail unlike all those you listed in the past.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Bloop... the NBA isn't nearly as much about parity as people champion it to be.

This year is worse than most... with a super team head and shoulders better than the competition... in each conference. Cleveland was just as dominant in the East as GSW was in the West. The difference was that they elected to coast during the regular season more.

This might be an example of getting caught up in the moment. After all, it's only one season. So let's see how this one plays out (series not done yet) before we embark on any doomsday scenarios.

[thedoper]

Imagine if Tim Thomas and Darius Miles were prospects this year. They'd be the surefire 1 and 2 picks with their length and athleticism. If only all 7 footers were like KG, Dirk, and KD.

Right. Skills are first and foremost, then body type/athletic profile is secondary. Dirk and Durant's length allowed them to utilize their feathery outside touch in more situations than if they were shorter. But it wouldn't have mattered much if they didn't have the shooting touch to begin with.

It's funny though because I was actually thinking about this with those two players in mind. In the same way there was a rush on these types of builds in players in the post KG drafts, there is a rush on a certain type of big man now. I really actually think that there are a lot of teams that are going to get burned because they are drafting for style of play rather than core basketball talent in the next few years. Which is why I still suspect there will be opportunities later in drafts.