Minnesota Sports Forum

Carlos Danger wrote:I thought this was an interesting read:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-fact-or-fiction-the-minnesota-timberwolves-trade-for-rudy-gobert-is-an-abject-disaster-205647283.html

I saw this and posted it in another thread. It's a really solid analysis. It reflects my thinking for the most part; however, I still have an open mind to the possibility that the Wolves figure it out and make this awkward combination work.

I didn't feel like starting a new thread for this, and it's better to keep these things organized anyway for later use, but this season I've been hypothesizing various trades this organization could make either this season, this summer, or possibly further down the line should they need to. This one involves Rudy Gobert. I should note that this post is not a knee-jerk reaction to this season or even this afternoon's game. Gobert has been plenty adequate in a vacuum, although not dominant overall and not worth the price to acquire him.

Anyways, with Karl-Anthony Towns a part of the equation, and acknowledging his elite ability to shoot from the perimeter and score the basketball in general pairs well with Anthony Edwards, I'm willing to overlook the emotional maturity issues in favor of his rare ability and skill set for position as well as him being on the favorable side of 30. I also think Towns at the five is a better defender than he's given credit for, but that's a different conversation for another time. The point being that in this hypothetical situation the franchise is sticking with Towns -- as well as re-signing Naz Reid -- and trading Gobert.

Minnesota:
- Rudy Gobert (age 30; two-years, $84.8M + $46.6M player option)
- Bryn Forbes (age 29; expiring contract)

Brooklyn:
- Ben Simmons (age 26; two-years, $78.1M remaining)
- Patty Mills (age 34; one-year, $6.8M remaining)
- 2027 First-Round Pick (via PHI)

This trade would essentially be a calculated gamble on Ben Simmons as a depreciated asset in a similar way that Gobert is now while prying a future first-round pick -- likely near the bottom of the round -- and a veteran backcourt presence in Patty Mills that also has movable salary for next season.

In theory, Simmons still fits really well with Minnesota's nucleus and I do think he would be a good frontcourt partner for Towns. Notice that I said "frontcourt" because I would plan to continue using him as a playmaking forward versus a primary ball-handler in the backcourt. Also, Simmons is still an elite and versatile defender in his own right. His rare ability to check 1-5 would potentially make him a better fit than Gobert given that the Timberwolves could use another point-of-attack defender as well as someone who could defend bigger wings when Jaden McDaniels is out or in foul trouble.

Brooklyn would potentially consider making this trade because Gobert is still the better championship piece right now, and that franchise is seemingly in "championship or bust" mode every season moving forward with Kevin Durant. Gobert also provides them a defensive anchor that I don't feel like they have even with Nic Claxton flexing his defensive prowess this year.

Minnesota:
1: D'Angelo Russell / Jordan McLaughlin / Patty Mills
2: Anthony Edwards / Austin Rivers / Jaylen Nowell
3: Jaden McDaniels / Taurean Prince / Wendell Moore Jr.
4: Ben Simmons / Kyle Anderson / Nathan Knight
5: Karl-Anthony Towns / Naz Reid / Luka Garza

Brooklyn:
1: Kyrie Irving / Edmond Sumner / Seth Curry
2: Joe Harris / Yuta Watanabe / Cam Thomas
3: Kevin Durant / Royce O'Neal
4: Nic Claxton / T.J. Warren
5: Rudy Gobert / [Nic Claxton] / Markieff Morris

Camden wrote:I didn't feel like starting a new thread for this, and it's better to keep these things organized anyway for later use, but this season I've been hypothesizing various trades this organization could make either this season, this summer, or possibly further down the line should they need to. This one involves Rudy Gobert. I should note that this post is not a knee-jerk reaction to this season or even this afternoon's game. Gobert has been plenty adequate in a vacuum, although not dominant overall and not worth the price to acquire him.

Anyways, with Karl-Anthony Towns a part of the equation, and acknowledging his elite ability to shoot from the perimeter and score the basketball in general pairs well with Anthony Edwards, I'm willing to overlook the emotional maturity issues in favor of his rare ability and skill set for position as well as him being on the favorable side of 30. I also think Towns at the five is a better defender than he's given credit for, but that's a different conversation for another time. The point being that in this hypothetical situation the franchise is sticking with Towns -- as well as re-signing Naz Reid -- and trading Gobert.

Minnesota:
- Rudy Gobert (age 30; two-years, $84.8M + $46.6M player option)
- Bryn Forbes (age 29; expiring contract)

Brooklyn:
- Ben Simmons (age 26; two-years, $78.1M remaining)
- Patty Mills (age 34; one-year, $6.8M remaining)
- 2027 First-Round Pick (via PHI)

This trade would essentially be a calculated gamble on Ben Simmons as a depreciated asset in a similar way that Gobert is now while prying a future first-round pick -- likely near the bottom of the round -- and a veteran backcourt presence in Patty Mills that also has movable salary for next season.

In theory, Simmons still fits really well with Minnesota's nucleus and I do think he would be a good frontcourt partner for Towns. Notice that I said "frontcourt" because I would plan to continue using him as a playmaking forward versus a primary ball-handler in the backcourt. Also, Simmons is still an elite and versatile defender in his own right. His rare ability to check 1-5 would potentially make him a better fit than Gobert given that the Timberwolves could use another point-of-attack defender as well as someone who could defend bigger wings when Jaden McDaniels is out or in foul trouble.

Brooklyn would potentially consider making this trade because Gobert is still the better championship piece right now, and that franchise is seemingly in "championship or bust" mode every season moving forward with Kevin Durant. Gobert also provides them a defensive anchor that I don't feel like they have even with Nic Claxton flexing his defensive prowess this year.

Minnesota:
1: D'Angelo Russell / Jordan McLaughlin / Patty Mills
2: Anthony Edwards / Austin Rivers / Jaylen Nowell
3: Jaden McDaniels / Taurean Prince / Wendell Moore Jr.
4: Ben Simmons / Kyle Anderson / Nathan Knight
5: Karl-Anthony Towns / Naz Reid / Luka Garza

Brooklyn:
1: Kyrie Irving / Edmond Sumner / Seth Curry
2: Joe Harris / Yuta Watanabe / Cam Thomas
3: Kevin Durant / Royce O'Neal
4: Nic Claxton / T.J. Warren
5: Rudy Gobert / [Nic Claxton] / Markieff Morris

I'd make that deal.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I didn't feel like starting a new thread for this, and it's better to keep these things organized anyway for later use, but this season I've been hypothesizing various trades this organization could make either this season, this summer, or possibly further down the line should they need to. This one involves Rudy Gobert. I should note that this post is not a knee-jerk reaction to this season or even this afternoon's game. Gobert has been plenty adequate in a vacuum, although not dominant overall and not worth the price to acquire him.

Anyways, with Karl-Anthony Towns a part of the equation, and acknowledging his elite ability to shoot from the perimeter and score the basketball in general pairs well with Anthony Edwards, I'm willing to overlook the emotional maturity issues in favor of his rare ability and skill set for position as well as him being on the favorable side of 30. I also think Towns at the five is a better defender than he's given credit for, but that's a different conversation for another time. The point being that in this hypothetical situation the franchise is sticking with Towns -- as well as re-signing Naz Reid -- and trading Gobert.

Minnesota:
- Rudy Gobert (age 30; two-years, $84.8M + $46.6M player option)
- Bryn Forbes (age 29; expiring contract)

Brooklyn:
- Ben Simmons (age 26; two-years, $78.1M remaining)
- Patty Mills (age 34; one-year, $6.8M remaining)
- 2027 First-Round Pick (via PHI)

This trade would essentially be a calculated gamble on Ben Simmons as a depreciated asset in a similar way that Gobert is now while prying a future first-round pick -- likely near the bottom of the round -- and a veteran backcourt presence in Patty Mills that also has movable salary for next season.

In theory, Simmons still fits really well with Minnesota's nucleus and I do think he would be a good frontcourt partner for Towns. Notice that I said "frontcourt" because I would plan to continue using him as a playmaking forward versus a primary ball-handler in the backcourt. Also, Simmons is still an elite and versatile defender in his own right. His rare ability to check 1-5 would potentially make him a better fit than Gobert given that the Timberwolves could use another point-of-attack defender as well as someone who could defend bigger wings when Jaden McDaniels is out or in foul trouble.

Brooklyn would potentially consider making this trade because Gobert is still the better championship piece right now, and that franchise is seemingly in "championship or bust" mode every season moving forward with Kevin Durant. Gobert also provides them a defensive anchor that I don't feel like they have even with Nic Claxton flexing his defensive prowess this year.

Minnesota:
1: D'Angelo Russell / Jordan McLaughlin / Patty Mills
2: Anthony Edwards / Austin Rivers / Jaylen Nowell
3: Jaden McDaniels / Taurean Prince / Wendell Moore Jr.
4: Ben Simmons / Kyle Anderson / Nathan Knight
5: Karl-Anthony Towns / Naz Reid / Luka Garza

Brooklyn:
1: Kyrie Irving / Edmond Sumner / Seth Curry
2: Joe Harris / Yuta Watanabe / Cam Thomas
3: Kevin Durant / Royce O'Neal
4: Nic Claxton / T.J. Warren
5: Rudy Gobert / [Nic Claxton] / Markieff Morris

I'd make that deal.

Simmons is refusing to shoot again no thank you

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I think people put too many expectations on that guy after his first year and during last year's summer league. There was this idea that he was going to become a guy who could really create shots for himself and others and really be a big scorer and I think that overestimated his handle by a wide margin. He's skinny and tall, but watching him move, it's clear he's not really a KD-type or even a Brandon Ingram and he shouldn't try to be. Honestly, he just doesn't have the soft touch, fluid body control, and super-dextrous hands that those guys who can handle the ball and score at will have.

At the same time, even without that, he become a very valuable player. He could seriously become a better prime Robert Covington or Matisse Thybulle with a 3 point shot IF he can just develop the ability to knock those 3 pointers down at a higher clip. Skinny OG? Longer Trevor Ariza, more athletic Shane Battier? I can even see a longer, better-defending Andrew Wiggins (in his current role with the Warriors), but with slightly worse shot creation. That's like, the perfect 3 and D guy! Like those guys, he's super athletic, but just doesn't seem to have a great handle and soft touch. And that's fine. Players like that are really valuable! He can still be very successful if the majority of his shots are assisted and come from the 3 point line or right at the rim on lobs or little dump passes to him as he cuts.

With any combination of DLO, Ant, Nowell, KAT, SloMo, Prince, Moore, or JMac potentially playing with him on the floor at the same time, even when Gobert's out there, we can always have 3 guys who can create shots on the floor at the same time on offense. The most important thing he can do in that case is space the floor, and with his length, if he can knock those shots down more consistently and force the opponents to put a long defender on him out on the perimeter, that'll be huge for us. Given his defense, it's honestly a perfect fit with what we've got.

If he does develop the ability to put the ball on the deck and make things happen more than he can now, great. I just don't see the intangible touch and feel for the game that you typically see in guys who have that potential. And besides, it's 100 times more important for him to just be able to knock down outside shots at at least an average clip.

I don't think BKN takes that deal but if MN can pull that off it would be a plus move in my eyes.

Tactical unit wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I think people put too many expectations on that guy after his first year and during last year's summer league. There was this idea that he was going to become a guy who could really create shots for himself and others and really be a big scorer and I think that overestimated his handle by a wide margin. He's skinny and tall, but watching him move, it's clear he's not really a KD-type or even a Brandon Ingram and he shouldn't try to be. Honestly, he just doesn't have the soft touch, fluid body control, and super-dextrous hands that those guys who can handle the ball and score at will have.

At the same time, even without that, he become a very valuable player. He could seriously become a better prime Robert Covington or Matisse Thybulle with a 3 point shot IF he can just develop the ability to knock those 3 pointers down at a higher clip. Skinny OG? Longer Trevor Ariza, more athletic Shane Battier? I can even see a longer, better-defending Andrew Wiggins (in his current role with the Warriors), but with slightly worse shot creation. That's like, the perfect 3 and D guy! Like those guys, he's super athletic, but just doesn't seem to have a great handle and soft touch. And that's fine. Players like that are really valuable! He can still be very successful if the majority of his shots are assisted and come from the 3 point line or right at the rim on lobs or little dump passes to him as he cuts.

With any combination of DLO, Ant, Nowell, KAT, SloMo, Prince, Moore, or JMac potentially playing with him on the floor at the same time, even when Gobert's out there, we can always have 3 guys who can create shots on the floor at the same time on offense. The most important thing he can do in that case is space the floor, and with his length, if he can knock those shots down more consistently and force the opponents to put a long defender on him out on the perimeter, that'll be huge for us. Given his defense, it's honestly a perfect fit with what we've got.

If he does develop the ability to put the ball on the deck and make things happen more than he can now, great. I just don't see the intangible touch and feel for the game that you typically see in guys who have that potential. And besides, it's 100 times more important for him to just be able to knock down outside shots at at least an average clip.

I don't think BKN takes that deal but if MN can pull that off it would be a plus move in my eyes.

I think the Nets would do that deal in a heartbeat. They're in a total win-now mode with Durant and Kyrie. Gobert would be a great fit there with those two scorers. They'd only be giving up one future first rounder and a guy, Simmons, who hasn't regained all-star form from his years with the Sixers. What's sad is that this deal is probably the best the Wolves could get for Gobert and that's telling.

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I think people put too many expectations on that guy after his first year and during last year's summer league. There was this idea that he was going to become a guy who could really create shots for himself and others and really be a big scorer and I think that overestimated his handle by a wide margin. He's skinny and tall, but watching him move, it's clear he's not really a KD-type or even a Brandon Ingram and he shouldn't try to be. Honestly, he just doesn't have the soft touch, fluid body control, and super-dextrous hands that those guys who can handle the ball and score at will have.

At the same time, even without that, he become a very valuable player. He could seriously become a better prime Robert Covington or Matisse Thybulle with a 3 point shot IF he can just develop the ability to knock those 3 pointers down at a higher clip. Skinny OG? Longer Trevor Ariza, more athletic Shane Battier? I can even see a longer, better-defending Andrew Wiggins (in his current role with the Warriors), but with slightly worse shot creation. That's like, the perfect 3 and D guy! Like those guys, he's super athletic, but just doesn't seem to have a great handle and soft touch. And that's fine. Players like that are really valuable! He can still be very successful if the majority of his shots are assisted and come from the 3 point line or right at the rim on lobs or little dump passes to him as he cuts.

With any combination of DLO, Ant, Nowell, KAT, SloMo, Prince, Moore, or JMac potentially playing with him on the floor at the same time, even when Gobert's out there, we can always have 3 guys who can create shots on the floor at the same time on offense. The most important thing he can do in that case is space the floor, and with his length, if he can knock those shots down more consistently and force the opponents to put a long defender on him out on the perimeter, that'll be huge for us. Given his defense, it's honestly a perfect fit with what we've got.

If he does develop the ability to put the ball on the deck and make things happen more than he can now, great. I just don't see the intangible touch and feel for the game that you typically see in guys who have that potential. And besides, it's 100 times more important for him to just be able to knock down outside shots at at least an average clip.

I don't think BKN takes that deal but if MN can pull that off it would be a plus move in my eyes.

I think the Nets would do that deal in a heartbeat. They're in a total win-now mode with Durant and Kyrie. Gobert would be a great fit there with those two scorers. They'd only be giving up one future first rounder and a guy, Simmons, who hasn't regained all-star form from his years with the Sixers. What's sad is that this deal is probably the best the Wolves could get for Gobert and that's telling.

Speaking of BKN, Nic Claxton has been great for the Nets this season.

11.9 ppg / 8.5 reb / 2.7 blk / 73% fg ... and he's only 23... and he only makes $8M.

In December, he had a 149 ORTG and 105 DRTG. In November, it was 129 and 103. Both of those are insane.

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:Jaden McDaniels should probably prove that he's actually worthy of a sizable extension. His case isn't quite like Anthony Edwards' where we know the production is there AND the potential to get better is as well. McDaniels has had games where you can see what he could be, but he hasn't done nearly enough to this point. His value so far lies only in his potential.

I think everything is setting up for him to have a big season, but we need to see it consistently. There also has to be progression with his perimeter shot. We should see improved rebounding from him as he plays at his natural position on the wing. And we need to see him cut down on the fouls. Those are my biggest areas of concern with him. I'd be ecstatic if he played well enough to command a four-year, $90-million deal -- or similar -- in the future like Mikal Bridges got. We need to see the growth first, though.

All true. I like that he is likely gonna spend a much higher percentage of his minutes at SF instead of PF and that might help his game. I think Gobert being on the roster will possibly help him cut down on the fouls. He actually fouled more his 2nd season than his first but the wolves played a more aggressive defense which I'm not sure fits him the best.

Good points Monster & Cam,

As far as Jaden earning it, I think stop the fouling by a wide margin and becoming reliable behind the arc are his best ways to getting that contract. I'm glad they did everything they could to keep Jaden and give him that chance to earn a big contract.

Does anyone think Jaden might be further developing his skill set on a team with less talent where he was being asked to be more of star?

No. McDaniels has had ample opportunity to develop his skills with the Wolves. He's solely responsible for his failure to progress last season. I remain high on him, but there's a reason a guy who was expected to be a one-and-done lottery pick coming out of high school ended up the 28th pick. He has a lot to prove.

I think people put too many expectations on that guy after his first year and during last year's summer league. There was this idea that he was going to become a guy who could really create shots for himself and others and really be a big scorer and I think that overestimated his handle by a wide margin. He's skinny and tall, but watching him move, it's clear he's not really a KD-type or even a Brandon Ingram and he shouldn't try to be. Honestly, he just doesn't have the soft touch, fluid body control, and super-dextrous hands that those guys who can handle the ball and score at will have.

At the same time, even without that, he become a very valuable player. He could seriously become a better prime Robert Covington or Matisse Thybulle with a 3 point shot IF he can just develop the ability to knock those 3 pointers down at a higher clip. Skinny OG? Longer Trevor Ariza, more athletic Shane Battier? I can even see a longer, better-defending Andrew Wiggins (in his current role with the Warriors), but with slightly worse shot creation. That's like, the perfect 3 and D guy! Like those guys, he's super athletic, but just doesn't seem to have a great handle and soft touch. And that's fine. Players like that are really valuable! He can still be very successful if the majority of his shots are assisted and come from the 3 point line or right at the rim on lobs or little dump passes to him as he cuts.

With any combination of DLO, Ant, Nowell, KAT, SloMo, Prince, Moore, or JMac potentially playing with him on the floor at the same time, even when Gobert's out there, we can always have 3 guys who can create shots on the floor at the same time on offense. The most important thing he can do in that case is space the floor, and with his length, if he can knock those shots down more consistently and force the opponents to put a long defender on him out on the perimeter, that'll be huge for us. Given his defense, it's honestly a perfect fit with what we've got.

If he does develop the ability to put the ball on the deck and make things happen more than he can now, great. I just don't see the intangible touch and feel for the game that you typically see in guys who have that potential. And besides, it's 100 times more important for him to just be able to knock down outside shots at at least an average clip.

I don't think BKN takes that deal but if MN can pull that off it would be a plus move in my eyes.

I think the Nets would do that deal in a heartbeat. They're in a total win-now mode with Durant and Kyrie. Gobert would be a great fit there with those two scorers. They'd only be giving up one future first rounder and a guy, Simmons, who hasn't regained all-star form from his years with the Sixers. What's sad is that this deal is probably the best the Wolves could get for Gobert and that's telling.

N. Claxton has been damn good would Gobert push him to PF? I think Ben would fit in MN really well and his defense is known yet somehow under appreciated. I think people just want to point out all Ben's flaws and look past what is a young, athletic, playing making, A++ defender that can guard all positions type of player. If BKN see's this deal as the experiment they want to try or that it somehow puts them over the top by all means please make this deal happen!

With the emergence of Kessler as a budding star, I have to admit the trade naysayers are easily winning the argument right now. Things can change, but objectively that has to be the conclusion at the present time, even for those like me who loved the trade.

But Pat Reusse's article this morning about Ainge always fleecing us is misguided. He talks about the Garnett trade, and frames it as Garnett for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, 2 first rounders and some other players. And he's correct that the deal ended up as grand theft larceny due to Kahn drafting Flynn and Ellington.

But we all know that passing on Steph Curry in the draft was a massive bonehead move. So in my opinion the deal was actually Garnett for Curry, Jefferson, Gomes and Ellington. I make that deal in a heartbeat, and I think almost anyone would...especially since Garnett was sideways with ownership at the time.

The real takeaway from the Garnett deal is not that Ainge is a genius and McHale is a moron. It's that Kahn is an earwax-eating moron.

FNG wrote:With the emergence of Kessler as a budding star, I have to admit the trade naysayers are easily winning the argument right now. Things can change, but objectively that has to be the conclusion at the present time, even for those like me who loved the trade.

But Pat Reusse's article this morning about Ainge always fleecing us is misguided. He talks about the Garnett trade, and frames it as Garnett for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, 2 first rounders and some other players. And he's correct that the deal ended up as grand theft larceny due to Kahn drafting Flynn and Ellington.

But we all know that passing on Steph Curry in the draft was a massive bonehead move. So in my opinion the deal was actually Garnett for Curry, Jefferson, Gomes and Ellington. I make that deal in a heartbeat, and I think almost anyone would...especially since Garnett was sideways with ownership at the time.

The real takeaway from the Garnett deal is not that Ainge is a genius and McHale is a moron. It's that Kahn is an earwax-eating moron.

Ha. Thanks for that, FNG.

But the Wolves were set on Rondo in that trade and Ainge talked them into Marcus Banks instead.

The Wolves didn't get Curry or anybody of significance. But the Celtics did get a title.

Ainge has done quite well for himself I trades w mn.