Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

I'm in the LST camp in not liking this reported deal and hoping that it causes Miami or other teams to up their ante for Butler. One way or another, Houston is unlikely to end up in the lottery for at three of those four draft periods. I love first round draft picks as assets, but four picks from Houston in exchange for Butler doesn't thrill me. The overwhelming majority of first round picks in the 20s don't turn out to be nearly as good as Josh Richardson already is.

The better option is Richardson for three years, cap filler, and a pick that could potentially be 2 2nds?

Because we are slightly more competitive now?

Vs. 4 1st round picks totaling a ton of potential team control and assets to quickly change a franchises direction.

You do not pass up a haul of picks today for a role player.

crazy-canuck wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.

I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.

We also dont want to make a bad deal because we are impatient.

This sint really a blow your socks off type offer. If we agree that this is better than the heat deal, then logic says there might be a better deal than this Houston deal.

Or you got lucky that someone got frantic and you sign the dotted line and run away laughing.

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

Sit tight for what? A better offer than this?? What could that even be? If this offer is real, the wolves are extremely lucky. Jimmy has been painted as a headcase/team cancer, is on a one year deal and has publicly stated he is walking after it, the warriors are real, our cap is fucked, our top talent is 23, on and on.

Thibs held his ground and it looks like he won the stalemate. It won't happen again.

I'm with you, I've been against the Richardson trade because that's our team for 3 years and no outlet plans. Would rather let butler walk.

But this trade gives us cap space in 2020 when few teams have space. Multiple picks in over multiple years. 2 picks in a possible double draft year. 6 years of assets are pick up. That align with KAT timeline.

Also what a pitch to future coaches and GMs. Cap space and massive draft picks going forward

A very good role player is not worth a star. 4 extra chances at a star is worth a star, if Gordon is added it is a coup. Great spacing for KAT and Wiggins.

Butler is gone, taj will be gone, teague within 2, gorgui within 3. The wolves can sit and pick 5 players over the next 3 years, then add a max player or multiple good role players (see josh Richardson), KAT/Wiggs will be 26 and we will know what we have in them.

This is a great deal for us.

TheFuture wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.

I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.

We also dont want to make a bad deal because we are impatient.

This sint really a blow your socks off type offer. If we agree that this is better than the heat deal, then logic says there might be a better deal than this Houston deal.

Or you got lucky that someone got frantic and you sign the dotted line and run away laughing.

Future it's a miracle we are on the same page.

In this trade we get cap space in 2020, 4 future assets to draft players or trade for players. An extra pick at the rumored 2021 double draft. Knight expiring might become an asset who knows and we get a free look at a former lotto pick (I think Chriss sucks but it's a free look at a young former lotto pick).

TheFuture wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.

I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.

We also dont want to make a bad deal because we are impatient.

This sint really a blow your socks off type offer. If we agree that this is better than the heat deal, then logic says there might be a better deal than this Houston deal.

Or you got lucky that someone got frantic and you sign the dotted line and run away laughing.

Future it's a miracle we are on the same page.

In this trade we get cap space in 2020, 4 future assets to draft players or trade for players. An extra pick at the rumored 2021 double draft. Knight expiring might become an asset who knows and we get a free look at a former lotto pick (I think Chriss sucks but it's a free look at a young former lotto pick).

2 more points.

IF the Rockets do this deal of let's just say Knight and Chriss for Butler...that means we suddenly have some space below the lux tax to offer a player some money above a vet min deal this season. I really don't know if Patrick McCaw is worth it (that's a strange deal Over there) but maybe we offer him some money and opportunity to play and we get a potentially intruiging player for basically nothing.

Speaking of opportunity let's say we do suck and Okogie or someone else doesn't step up to be that next wing player next to Wiggins. Guess who would have a possible wide open starting spot regardless of how much money we have to offer? This team. Someone that's moderatly worthwhile would likely take a decent amount of money on a 1 year deal to be a full time starter here.

Bonus point. If we suck...fine we get a better draft pick. That could be another upside of dealing Butler now. I've seen some positives from this team (and Thibs) along with some injuries already hitting other teams that it's even possible this team might actually not suck the whole year if Butler is dealt. This team is flawed without Butler but it's also not the preseason team we saw either.

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.

I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.

We also dont want to make a bad deal because we are impatient.

This sint really a blow your socks off type offer. If we agree that this is better than the heat deal, then logic says there might be a better deal than this Houston deal.

Or you got lucky that someone got frantic and you sign the dotted line and run away laughing.

Future it's a miracle we are on the same page.

In this trade we get cap space in 2020, 4 future assets to draft players or trade for players. An extra pick at the rumored 2021 double draft. Knight expiring might become an asset who knows and we get a free look at a former lotto pick (I think Chriss sucks but it's a free look at a young former lotto pick).

I'd ask for Gordon and Zhou Qi, but if told no I'd accept whatever players they send.

I'd then double down and call up the suns with an offer of teague for a protected 1st in an even year 2018/2020/2022.

Shop Taj as well. Teague and Taj will be gone soon and we should gain assets for those two if this trade does happen.

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.

I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.

Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.

He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.

So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.

Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.

Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.

I'm in the LST camp in not liking this reported deal and hoping that it causes Miami or other teams to up their ante for Butler. One way or another, Houston is unlikely to end up in the lottery for at three of those four draft periods. I love first round draft picks as assets, but four picks from Houston in exchange for Butler doesn't thrill me. The overwhelming majority of first round picks in the 20s don't turn out to be nearly as good as Josh Richardson already is.

Butler and Paul both have an injury history. Paul is in decline, Butler could walk. What if Harden has a serious injury? Those 2021-2025 picks could be nice.

This is what an NBA team located in Minnesota needs. A plethora of draft assets from which to build a dynamic young team. We can't lure free agents so this is the RIGHT way to build a team here. Of course you have to make good picks, and you have to have some luck. But this would be yet another opportunity where a smart front office could really build something Danny Ainge style. Sure beats the hell out of all you Butler apologists spanking it to watching Jimmy over the next few months. Get rid of that fucking asshole and do it now with this package.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:This is what an NBA team located in Minnesota needs. A plethora of draft assets from which to build a dynamic young team. We can't lure free agents so this is the RIGHT way to build a team here. Of course you have to make good picks, and you have to have some luck. But this would be yet another opportunity where a smart front office could really build something Danny Ainge style. Sure beats the hell out of all you Butler apologists spanking it to watching Jimmy over the next few months. Get rid of that fucking asshole and do it now with this package.

This ^^^^^^^^ because....




































we can all get back to doing what we do best, talking about the next draft and which players are going to break our hearts next!