Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

ahughes53 wrote:Was watching some prospect videos today out of boredom and one guy that seems like an interesting prospect for this team later in the draft is Grayson Allen. I've watched him a couple times this year and watched one of his prospect videos on DX. I never noticed it watching him live, but when you see a bunch of his defensive possessions back to back to back, his defense reminds me a lot of Rubio. He pressures the ball at half court, has good form and is a really great athlete. I don't think he'll ever be Tony Allen, but he's got a good frame for 6'4" and a beautiful looking stroke. We've discussed a lot that 3 and D players don't grow on trees in college ball, but he seems like the prototype albeit a little short.

(Sorry if he has been discussed, a lot of pages in this thread)

He's an interesting prospect and I'm not sure why he's ranked so low, other than the fact he's a sophomore. If he was doing this as a freshman, I wonder if he'd be top 10? I think you are right that he is a little on the short side for SG, yet so is Buddy Hield and Jamal Murray, both of whom are well above him on mock drafts. So I'm not sure what the knock is on him.

Let's call it what it is. He's white and unlikeable. That's why he's so low. It took 4 years for Redick to get on people's radar to be a high pick and he was a phenomenal shooter in college. He's 6'4 as a SG and that hasn't stopped him from being a really good role player for years now and he's solid on both sides of the ball. Allen isn't as good of a shooter, but I think he has a better handle and he gets to the line a lot which Reddick didn't really do until his later years.

Edit: Allen is actually on par with Redick's shooting ability so the only reason I can think of why he wouldn't be higher is that he's white and unlikeable.

That's interesting if true since his athleticism belies the stereotype of his skin color. I also can't believe with all of the advanced analytics and scouting these days that skin color would factor into his projected draft position.

I think this accurately covers it.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14644805/grayson-allen-being-hated-white-player-duke-blue-devils

It shouldn't be a thing, but it's a thing and it's why he's not a top 10 projected pick in a weak draft with players older and less versatile than him being considered as better NBA options to draft.

That accurately covers why Joe-Fan may not like Allen, but it doesn't explain why a professional draft service like DX has him so low. Perhaps Givony has some inside info on issues going on behind the scenes or may be he's just being patient in moving him up his big board.

Very interesting. He was ranked 21st in the class of 2014.

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

ahughes53 wrote:Was watching some prospect videos today out of boredom and one guy that seems like an interesting prospect for this team later in the draft is Grayson Allen. I've watched him a couple times this year and watched one of his prospect videos on DX. I never noticed it watching him live, but when you see a bunch of his defensive possessions back to back to back, his defense reminds me a lot of Rubio. He pressures the ball at half court, has good form and is a really great athlete. I don't think he'll ever be Tony Allen, but he's got a good frame for 6'4" and a beautiful looking stroke. We've discussed a lot that 3 and D players don't grow on trees in college ball, but he seems like the prototype albeit a little short.

(Sorry if he has been discussed, a lot of pages in this thread)

He's an interesting prospect and I'm not sure why he's ranked so low, other than the fact he's a sophomore. If he was doing this as a freshman, I wonder if he'd be top 10? I think you are right that he is a little on the short side for SG, yet so is Buddy Hield and Jamal Murray, both of whom are well above him on mock drafts. So I'm not sure what the knock is on him.

Let's call it what it is. He's white and unlikeable. That's why he's so low. It took 4 years for Redick to get on people's radar to be a high pick and he was a phenomenal shooter in college. He's 6'4 as a SG and that hasn't stopped him from being a really good role player for years now and he's solid on both sides of the ball. Allen isn't as good of a shooter, but I think he has a better handle and he gets to the line a lot which Reddick didn't really do until his later years.

Edit: Allen is actually on par with Redick's shooting ability so the only reason I can think of why he wouldn't be higher is that he's white and unlikeable.

That's interesting if true since his athleticism belies the stereotype of his skin color. I also can't believe with all of the advanced analytics and scouting these days that skin color would factor into his projected draft position.

I think this accurately covers it.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14644805/grayson-allen-being-hated-white-player-duke-blue-devils

It shouldn't be a thing, but it's a thing and it's why he's not a top 10 projected pick in a weak draft with players older and less versatile than him being considered as better NBA options to draft.

That accurately covers why Joe-Fan may not like Allen, but it doesn't explain why a professional draft service like DX has him so low. Perhaps Givony has some inside info on issues going on behind the scenes or may be he's just being patient in moving him up his big board.

Keep in mind these mock drafts are where they predict these players will be taken (which when it comes to draft time they have been pretty accurate) and it may not be how DX actually values the prospect. They typically have top lists of players if you want to see how they may value a guy.

PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG
Murray 20.1, 5.1, 2.1, 1.0, 0.3 on 45.6/42.1/78.8 with 4.3 FTA's 6'5 207 19
Allen 21.6, 4.9, 3.6, 1.4, 0.2 on 46.7/41.7/83.5 with 6.8 FTA's 6'4 195 20
Hield 25.0, 5.6, 2.1, 1.4, 0.6 on 49.6/46.4/89.5 with 6.1 FTA's 6'4 209 22

Why are Hield and Murray top 10 picks and Allen is rated 27th? He's right there with both of them.

Here's Ford's Pro's and Con's:

Positives
oExplosive scorer
oGood shooter with range
oExcellent quickness, explosion off the floor
oTough, physical player
oGood ball handler, can play the point

Negatives
oCan be streaky
oLacks elite size and length if he's a two

That doesn't seem like a whole lot of negatives for a guy rated 27th who's still only 20 years old. You can deny it all you want, but that's literally the only reason I can come up with for his poor rankings in this draft class. And I'd don't believe it is the mock draft people who are doing it because of race. I think they place him where they hear NBA people rank him.

Keep in mind these mock drafts are where they predict these players will be taken (which when it comes to draft time they have been pretty accurate) and it may not be how DX actually values the prospect. They typically have top lists of players if you want to see how they may value a guy.

DX's mock draft is just their big board. They even state: "Team needs have NOT been taken into account."

khans2k5 wrote:PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG
Murray 20.1, 5.1, 2.1, 1.0, 0.3 on 45.6/42.1/78.8 with 4.3 FTA's 6'5 207 19
Allen 21.6, 4.9, 3.6, 1.4, 0.2 on 46.7/41.7/83.5 with 6.8 FTA's 6'4 195 20
Hield 25.0, 5.6, 2.1, 1.4, 0.6 on 49.6/46.4/89.5 with 6.1 FTA's 6'4 209 22

Why are Hield and Murray top 10 picks and Allen is rated 27th? He's right there with both of them.

Here's Ford's Pro's and Con's:

Positives
oExplosive scorer
oGood shooter with range
oExcellent quickness, explosion off the floor
oTough, physical player
oGood ball handler, can play the point

Negatives
oCan be streaky
oLacks elite size and length if he's a two

That doesn't seem like a whole lot of negatives for a guy rated 27th who's still only 20 years old. You can deny it all you want, but that's literally the only reason I can come up with for his poor rankings in this draft class. And I'd don't believe it is the mock draft people who are doing it because of race. I think they place him where they hear NBA people rank him.

One knock on Grayson Allen beside his size is his defense. His defensive rating is a subpar 106.8. Admittedly I haven't watched much tape on this guy, but just looking at his stats, I think his rating in the 20s is about right.

Allen plays really good defense. That's not the issue.

Camden wrote:Allen plays really good defense. That's not the issue.

Maybe so, but the stats don't reflect it. Maybe he's like Wiggins who has a good reputation as a defender but stats that show him to be a below average one.

TeamRicky wrote:

Camden wrote:Allen plays really good defense. That's not the issue.

Maybe so, but the stats don't reflect it. Maybe he's like Wiggins who has a good reputation as a defender but stats that show him to be a below average one.

This board has had this discussion already, but DRtg on Sports-Reference is a tough stat to use for individual defense. I'd be more interested in seeing his shooting percentages against. It won't take long if you watch one game of his to see that he plays good, tenacious defense. High motor. Gets involved. Awareness is a strength.

Actually DRating is a very useful stat. I would say it has a pretty good predictive ability to measure how good a player's defense is. This is a new stat so you can only go back about 5 years, but I have been studying this stat's predictive powers and I am pretty amazed by it. Of course its not 100%, but no stat is. But its by far the best stat to predict defensive ability that I have found. I am in the middle of studying each player's D-Rating in college as a predictor of advanced defensive stats in the NBA.

The good news is KAT has the best D-Rating of all the NBA players I have looked at so far.