Minnesota Sports Forum

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

WallyWorld wrote:The Athletic just wrote an article where Goberts prior Utah teammates preached patience, and that the long game will pay off...so there's hope I guess, what else could a t-pups fan hope for, that's our specialty!

"Long Game"!?!?! Seriously!?!? He's going to be 31 in June. He has a max contract. And coming into this season, he was a part of 3 series wins in NINE seasons. So define "Pay off"?

This is the trade (and the ONLY trade) that makes sense: DAR/PB/MB and ONE first for RG/JC/BB (I checked, the salaries work). There's obviously a ripple effect regarding Prince and Anderson, but MIN is actually better. UTAH gets a pick, saves A TON of money, and can still make the Mitchell trade (the guy Utah traded who is actually playing well).

I'm not going to mention "the podcaster who shall not be named" (mainly because I don't want to hear another super-cool story about Jay Cutler getting accosted in a bathroom), so I'll mention his co-worker Ryan Russilo, and Rusillo put it best: "Who were they bidding against?" (But Rusillo did say a couple of days later that Ainge is tough to deal with because he got a $300k signing bonus from The Blue Jays when he was 18, which must have given A-Rod a good laugh.)

You have good points
All of which has been hashed and rehashed since my original post at the beginning of January

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

WallyWorld wrote:The Athletic just wrote an article where Goberts prior Utah teammates preached patience, and that the long game will pay off...so there's hope I guess, what else could a t-pups fan hope for, that's our specialty!

"Long Game"!?!?! Seriously!?!? He's going to be 31 in June. He has a max contract. And coming into this season, he was a part of 3 series wins in NINE seasons. So define "Pay off"?

This is the trade (and the ONLY trade) that makes sense: DAR/PB/MB and ONE first for RG/JC/BB (I checked, the salaries work). There's obviously a ripple effect regarding Prince and Anderson, but MIN is actually better. UTAH gets a pick, saves A TON of money, and can still make the Mitchell trade (the guy Utah traded who is actually playing well).

I'm not going to mention "the podcaster who shall not be named" (mainly because I don't want to hear another super-cool story about Jay Cutler getting accosted in a bathroom), so I'll mention his co-worker Ryan Russilo, and Rusillo put it best: "Who were they bidding against?" (But Rusillo did say a couple of days later that Ainge is tough to deal with because he got a $300k signing bonus from The Blue Jays when he was 18, which must have given A-Rod a good laugh.)

Your trade would have been terrific for my home club. But can you post the blackmail photos that TC has of Ainge that would coerce Danny to make that deal?

FNG wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

WallyWorld wrote:The Athletic just wrote an article where Goberts prior Utah teammates preached patience, and that the long game will pay off...so there's hope I guess, what else could a t-pups fan hope for, that's our specialty!

"Long Game"!?!?! Seriously!?!? He's going to be 31 in June. He has a max contract. And coming into this season, he was a part of 3 series wins in NINE seasons. So define "Pay off"?

This is the trade (and the ONLY trade) that makes sense: DAR/PB/MB and ONE first for RG/JC/BB (I checked, the salaries work). There's obviously a ripple effect regarding Prince and Anderson, but MIN is actually better. UTAH gets a pick, saves A TON of money, and can still make the Mitchell trade (the guy Utah traded who is actually playing well).

I'm not going to mention "the podcaster who shall not be named" (mainly because I don't want to hear another super-cool story about Jay Cutler getting accosted in a bathroom), so I'll mention his co-worker Ryan Russilo, and Rusillo put it best: "Who were they bidding against?" (But Rusillo did say a couple of days later that Ainge is tough to deal with because he got a $300k signing bonus from The Blue Jays when he was 18, which must have given A-Rod a good laugh.)

Your trade would have been terrific for my home club. But can you post the blackmail photos that TC has of Ainge that would coerce Danny to make that deal?

No problem. I'll post the pics 5 minutes after you've posted the pics of TC that made the trade happen in the first place. Here's a small sample:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=danny+ainge+blue+jays&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi1l_XYsOj9AhW-kmoFHSc3AgMQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1600&bih=775&dpr=1

So Ainge says no to my proposal. OK. You know what I do then? I HANG THE PHONE UP. I don't give him two desirable expirings, two good posts on VERY TEAM FRIENDLY deals, and FOUR picks.

Wolves fans need to be concerned right now. Their new owners can't make their payments (ironic that A-Rod isn't more liquid considering that he has been juicing most of his adult life). Their RSN just went out of business (at first I was kind of disappointed that no one on this board is discussing it, but I supposed if it's not discussed then no one can blame the Cuban Missile Crisis or claim that Ted Turner ate the owner). And if there is an actual banking crisis, who does it effect, and were they going to buy the rumored expansion franchises in SEA and LV, thereby leaving them open as possibilities for relocation? Not is not a good time to get knocked out of the play-in, have the pick they're sending Utah be in the lottery, and end up being #1 so Utah can draft a guy who is (projected to be) a generational talent (if there ever is a good time for such a thing).

Jason - You've described the ultimate nightmare scenario for the Wolves - i.e., Utah wins the lottery with out likely lottery pick and selects Victor Wembanyama. Actually, we're already living a nightmare as we watch what Walker Kessler is doing. It was painful to hear Stan VanGundy say that "it can be argued that Kessler alone makes the Gobert deal a bad one for the Wolves." He said, "can be argued," but that was his way of saying the truth that, in fact, just giving up Kessler in the deal makes it a horrible one. The trade looks even worse off course when you consider the other players TC gave up -- all of them rotation players -- and the draft assets. Then it gets even worse when you consider Gobert's contract, which exceeds his value on the court and will financially constrain the organization in the coming years.

Of course, the trade is now water under the bridge. So why talk about it? Because it's relevant to evaluating Tim Connelly and his front-office cohorts. While TC gets hammered justifiably for giving up Kessler in that trade, he should also get credit for drafting him. I also think we'll find that TC hit pay dirt with his selection of Minott in the second round. I like that he spotted Garza and brought him into the organization and I haven't given up on Wendell Moore yet. Unfortunately, TC has given up four of the organizations next 1st-round draft picks, which means he's given up most of what he's good at.

Otherwise, the Gobert trade is history and the more important question is what the Wolves organization will do going forward. The first priority for this organization should patience and opportunity when it comes to the young guys TC brought in (Minott, Moore, Garza) and the young talent he inherited (Edwards and Jaden). The second priority should be acquiring a young talented PG to eventually replace the aging Mike Conley. The third priority should be replenishing at least some of the draft capital TC gave up in the Rudy deal. The third priority, in my view, should be moving on from Rudy and better aligning this team with the age and talents of its best players -- Ant, Jaden and KAT.

I can only speculate because I'm not behind the scenes, but I would strongly suggest that Tim Connelly drafted Walker Kessler specifically for the Utah Jazz at their request, and not with his own intent or volition. I would imagine they had trade talks leading up to the draft and knew the parameters of said trade before it happened.

That's not to take away from Connelly's draft record overall, but rather Kessler might not actually fall into that.

Camden wrote:I can only speculate because I'm not behind the scenes, but I would strongly suggest that Tim Connelly drafted Walker Kessler specifically for the Utah Jazz at their request, and not with his own intent or volition. I would imagine they had trade talks leading up to the draft and knew the parameters of said trade before it happened.

That's not to take away from Connelly's draft record overall, but rather Kessler might not actually fall into that.

Yep. It's a very logical assumption, and it happens all the time.

Remember when the Wolves were ripped mercifully years ago for drafting three point guards even though one was Lawson for Denver?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:I can only speculate because I'm not behind the scenes, but I would strongly suggest that Tim Connelly drafted Walker Kessler specifically for the Utah Jazz at their request, and not with his own intent or volition. I would imagine they had trade talks leading up to the draft and knew the parameters of said trade before it happened.

That's not to take away from Connelly's draft record overall, but rather Kessler might not actually fall into that.

Yep. It's a very logical assumption, and it happens all the time.

Remember when the Wolves were ripped mercifully years ago for drafting three point guards even though one was Lawson for Denver?

Actually the Wolves drafted 4 PGs in that draft. Don't disrespect Nick Calathes like that. Still those were all draft day trades not something that happened days later.

I'm not sure the Wolves drafted Kessler for the Jazz. They drafted a 7'1" center which was a significant departure from the previous front office and then ended up trading him for an even bigger 7'3" center. Conley has drafted a lot of big tall dudes when at Denver so it doesn't seem that strange that he picked Kessler because they wanted him because clearly it was something they wanted to add to the roster.

I'm a VORP guy. With only about 10 games to go:
Gobert 1.3 VORP
Kessler 1.7 VORP

Kessler will most likely beat Gobert by himself in year one.
They spun off Beasley and Vanderbilt for another 1st round pick
They have four more coming from us.
So...(if I've got it all right), that's five 1st round picks plus Kessler for Rudy Gobert.

I want to hire Danny Ainge to help me when I buy my next car.

Carlos Danger wrote:I'm a VORP guy. With only about 10 games to go:
Gobert 1.3 VORP
Kessler 1.7 VORP

Kessler will most likely beat Gobert by himself in year one.
They spun off Beasley and Vanderbilt for another 1st round pick
They have four more coming from us.
So...(if I've got it all right), that's five 1st round picks plus Kessler for Rudy Gobert.

I want to hire Danny Ainge to help me when I buy my next car.

Utah traded Beasley and Vanderbilt and 2-3 second round picks for a 2027 1st from the Lakers that may turn into a high 2nd.

If you want to praise Ainge using VORP this season go ahead and look at his other big trade. Mitchell is at 4.4 but Markannen is at 3.2.

monsterpile wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:I'm a VORP guy. With only about 10 games to go:
Gobert 1.3 VORP
Kessler 1.7 VORP

Kessler will most likely beat Gobert by himself in year one.
They spun off Beasley and Vanderbilt for another 1st round pick
They have four more coming from us.
So...(if I've got it all right), that's five 1st round picks plus Kessler for Rudy Gobert.

I want to hire Danny Ainge to help me when I buy my next car.

Utah traded Beasley and Vanderbilt and 2-3 second round picks for a 2027 1st from the Lakers that may turn into a high 2nd.

If you want to praise Ainge using VORP this season go ahead and look at his other big trade. Mitchell is at 4.4 but Markannen is at 3.2.

Mason Plumlee has a higher VORP than Ant. Does not mean that wolves didn't overpay but there are big issues with VORP