Minnesota Sports Forum

AHEM.

Camden0916 wrote:AHEM.

???

Only this franchise is asked to sit tight for 7 years so you can see whether a deal isn't laughably bad.

Only this franchise is gonna be told that a coach who won't be employed and an owner who won't be alive can set us up for the middle of the next decade.

If this is the kind of deal that must be made so KAT can stop moping around like Eeyore, then KAT needs to go too.

We have to wait 7 years for the best part of the trade when FOUR T'wolves can say they've spent 7 or more years with this team in the history of this franchise: In other words, by the time the last pick is cashed in, the first pick is likely on his way outta here.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:2 more points.

IF the Rockets do this deal of let's just say Knight and Chriss for Butler...that means we suddenly have some space below the lux tax to offer a player some money above a vet min deal this season. I really don't know if Patrick McCaw is worth it (that's a strange deal Over there) but maybe we offer him some money and opportunity to play and we get a potentially intruiging player for basically nothing.

Speaking of opportunity let's say we do suck and Okogie or someone else doesn't step up to be that next wing player next to Wiggins. Guess who would have a possible wide open starting spot regardless of how much money we have to offer? This team. Someone that's moderatly worthwhile would likely take a decent amount of money on a 1 year deal to be a full time starter here.

Bonus point. If we suck...fine we get a better draft pick. That could be another upside of dealing Butler now. I've seen some positives from this team (and Thibs) along with some injuries already hitting other teams that it's even possible this team might actually not suck the whole year if Butler is dealt. This team is flawed without Butler but it's also not the preseason team we saw either.

Nice job making the case, Monster. As you know, I've been among those wanting to deal Butler sooner rather than later. But I think it's important to get at least one young promising player in the deal unless we get picks that are likely to be lottery picks. The Houston picks are likely to be in the 20s based on the players they have now and the recent track record of that organization finding ways to position itself as a contender.

I'd deal Butler to Boston for Hayward if we also received the 2019 Sacramento pick, which is highly likely to be a high lottery pick. Give me Hayward, the 2019 Kings pick and the Memphis pick, which is only 1-8 protected in 2019, 1-6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. That's a deal I'd get excited about. I'd even through in Justin Patton. Would Boston do this deal? I have no idea and no one has reported that Boston has any interest in Butler. But I actually think it would be a great deal for Boston. Butler along with Tatum, Kyrie, Horford, Brown and Smart has the makings of a team that could get past Toronto and actually give the Warriors a run for their money. Boston would still have all their own 1st round picks to go with a lot of young talent in Tatum, Brown, Smart and even Kyrie, who is only 25 or 26.

But if I'm just getting 4 picks in the 20s spread over 7 years and no talented young prospects, I just can't get excited.

Is BOS making that offer?

No Boston offer has been reported. I have no idea whether Boston has made or would make that offer. But if I were Thibodeau, I'd definitely make that offer. And I'd do it now in the immediate aftermath of the report about the Houston offer. I'd also call Pat Riley and tell him that he can hang up on me again or take one last shot at a reasonable deal for Butler.

First off, having Pat Riley whine at you because he's not getting his way is a badge of honor.

Second, you can only do the trades that are in front of you. Four 1sts/3 flips/5 2nds is very fair for JimmyBricks and anyone else other than KAT and Okogie.

I agree Riley whining at you is a badge of honor. The thrust of my post wasn't to gravel at Riley's feet. Instead, I'd envision Thibodeau going back to him from a position of strength and giving him one last chance to put up or shut up in his pursuit of Butler in the midst of a publicly reported offer from the Rockets.

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:2 more points.

IF the Rockets do this deal of let's just say Knight and Chriss for Butler...that means we suddenly have some space below the lux tax to offer a player some money above a vet min deal this season. I really don't know if Patrick McCaw is worth it (that's a strange deal Over there) but maybe we offer him some money and opportunity to play and we get a potentially intruiging player for basically nothing.

Speaking of opportunity let's say we do suck and Okogie or someone else doesn't step up to be that next wing player next to Wiggins. Guess who would have a possible wide open starting spot regardless of how much money we have to offer? This team. Someone that's moderatly worthwhile would likely take a decent amount of money on a 1 year deal to be a full time starter here.

Bonus point. If we suck...fine we get a better draft pick. That could be another upside of dealing Butler now. I've seen some positives from this team (and Thibs) along with some injuries already hitting other teams that it's even possible this team might actually not suck the whole year if Butler is dealt. This team is flawed without Butler but it's also not the preseason team we saw either.

Nice job making the case, Monster. As you know, I've been among those wanting to deal Butler sooner rather than later. But I think it's important to get at least one young promising player in the deal unless we get picks that are likely to be lottery picks. The Houston picks are likely to be in the 20s based on the players they have now and the recent track record of that organization finding ways to position itself as a contender.

I'd deal Butler to Boston for Hayward if we also received the 2019 Sacramento pick, which is highly likely to be a high lottery pick. Give me Hayward, the 2019 Kings pick and the Memphis pick, which is only 1-8 protected in 2019, 1-6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. That's a deal I'd get excited about. I'd even through in Justin Patton. Would Boston do this deal? I have no idea and no one has reported that Boston has any interest in Butler. But I actually think it would be a great deal for Boston. Butler along with Tatum, Kyrie, Horford, Brown and Smart has the makings of a team that could get past Toronto and actually give the Warriors a run for their money. Boston would still have all their own 1st round picks to go with a lot of young talent in Tatum, Brown, Smart and even Kyrie, who is only 25 or 26.

But if I'm just getting 4 picks in the 20s spread over 7 years and no talented young prospects, I just can't get excited.

Is BOS making that offer?

No Boston offer has been reported. I have no idea whether Boston has made or would make that offer. But if I were Thibodeau, I'd definitely make that offer. And I'd do it now in the immediate aftermath of the report about the Houston offer. I'd also call Pat Riley and tell him that he can hang up on me again or take one last shot at a reasonable deal for Butler.

First off, having Pat Riley whine at you because he's not getting his way is a badge of honor.

Second, you can only do the trades that are in front of you. Four 1sts/3 flips/5 2nds is very fair for JimmyBricks and anyone else other than KAT and Okogie.

I agree Riley whining at you is a badge of honor. The thrust of my post wasn't to gravel at Riley's feet. Instead, I'd envision Thibodeau going back to him from a position of strength and giving him one last chance to put up or shut up in his pursuit of Butler in the midst of a publicly reported offer from the Rockets.

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:2 more points.

IF the Rockets do this deal of let's just say Knight and Chriss for Butler...that means we suddenly have some space below the lux tax to offer a player some money above a vet min deal this season. I really don't know if Patrick McCaw is worth it (that's a strange deal Over there) but maybe we offer him some money and opportunity to play and we get a potentially intruiging player for basically nothing.

Speaking of opportunity let's say we do suck and Okogie or someone else doesn't step up to be that next wing player next to Wiggins. Guess who would have a possible wide open starting spot regardless of how much money we have to offer? This team. Someone that's moderatly worthwhile would likely take a decent amount of money on a 1 year deal to be a full time starter here.

Bonus point. If we suck...fine we get a better draft pick. That could be another upside of dealing Butler now. I've seen some positives from this team (and Thibs) along with some injuries already hitting other teams that it's even possible this team might actually not suck the whole year if Butler is dealt. This team is flawed without Butler but it's also not the preseason team we saw either.

Nice job making the case, Monster. As you know, I've been among those wanting to deal Butler sooner rather than later. But I think it's important to get at least one young promising player in the deal unless we get picks that are likely to be lottery picks. The Houston picks are likely to be in the 20s based on the players they have now and the recent track record of that organization finding ways to position itself as a contender.

I'd deal Butler to Boston for Hayward if we also received the 2019 Sacramento pick, which is highly likely to be a high lottery pick. Give me Hayward, the 2019 Kings pick and the Memphis pick, which is only 1-8 protected in 2019, 1-6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. That's a deal I'd get excited about. I'd even through in Justin Patton. Would Boston do this deal? I have no idea and no one has reported that Boston has any interest in Butler. But I actually think it would be a great deal for Boston. Butler along with Tatum, Kyrie, Horford, Brown and Smart has the makings of a team that could get past Toronto and actually give the Warriors a run for their money. Boston would still have all their own 1st round picks to go with a lot of young talent in Tatum, Brown, Smart and even Kyrie, who is only 25 or 26.

But if I'm just getting 4 picks in the 20s spread over 7 years and no talented young prospects, I just can't get excited.

Is BOS making that offer?

No Boston offer has been reported. I have no idea whether Boston has made or would make that offer. But if I were Thibodeau, I'd definitely make that offer. And I'd do it now in the immediate aftermath of the report about the Houston offer. I'd also call Pat Riley and tell him that he can hang up on me again or take one last shot at a reasonable deal for Butler.

First off, having Pat Riley whine at you because he's not getting his way is a badge of honor.

Second, you can only do the trades that are in front of you. Four 1sts/3 flips/5 2nds is very fair for JimmyBricks and anyone else other than KAT and Okogie.

I agree Riley whining at you is a badge of honor. The thrust of my post wasn't to gravel at Riley's feet. Instead, I'd envision Thibodeau going back to him from a position of strength and giving him one last chance to put up or shut up in his pursuit of Butler in the midst of a publicly reported offer from the Rockets.

Here's the thing: So now MIA does two picks, which will also be in the 20's? I don't see how that's better than 4. And like I said, maybe HOU also agrees to swap on the other 3 years. And their 2nd's. So if they go in the tank like Brooklyn that's a great haul. And if they don't, it's a GOOD haul. I just don't see MIA doing the same deal. But yeah, if they do, I like the current players they would move better than HOU's.

Lip if it was offered would you do an Eric Gordon and Chriss plus 4 first round picks for Butler? Keep in mind Chriss has advanced stats that showed he was a positive on the defensive end playing on the Suns...the Suns. I'm far from a Chriss believer although I saw the theory of his "upside" but I didn't think love the chances of him reaching in the draft. I think he is a decent young asset and Gordon would not be just a dead salary like Knight or Waiters.

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:AHEM.

???

All we've seen posted on this board is how offers for Jimmy Butler will not increase if Minnesota waits to make a deal -- showing patience. We read how Butler should have been moved for marginal pieces (Richardson, Gordon, Tucker, etc.) and bad contracts because that's the best we could get.

My "AHEM" was a replacement for a mild "I told you so" -- no ill will involved, of course.

This rumored offer of four first-round picks is a much -- MUCH -- better offer than the reported Miami Heat packages.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:2 more points.

IF the Rockets do this deal of let's just say Knight and Chriss for Butler...that means we suddenly have some space below the lux tax to offer a player some money above a vet min deal this season. I really don't know if Patrick McCaw is worth it (that's a strange deal Over there) but maybe we offer him some money and opportunity to play and we get a potentially intruiging player for basically nothing.

Speaking of opportunity let's say we do suck and Okogie or someone else doesn't step up to be that next wing player next to Wiggins. Guess who would have a possible wide open starting spot regardless of how much money we have to offer? This team. Someone that's moderatly worthwhile would likely take a decent amount of money on a 1 year deal to be a full time starter here.

Bonus point. If we suck...fine we get a better draft pick. That could be another upside of dealing Butler now. I've seen some positives from this team (and Thibs) along with some injuries already hitting other teams that it's even possible this team might actually not suck the whole year if Butler is dealt. This team is flawed without Butler but it's also not the preseason team we saw either.

Nice job making the case, Monster. As you know, I've been among those wanting to deal Butler sooner rather than later. But I think it's important to get at least one young promising player in the deal unless we get picks that are likely to be lottery picks. The Houston picks are likely to be in the 20s based on the players they have now and the recent track record of that organization finding ways to position itself as a contender.

I'd deal Butler to Boston for Hayward if we also received the 2019 Sacramento pick, which is highly likely to be a high lottery pick. Give me Hayward, the 2019 Kings pick and the Memphis pick, which is only 1-8 protected in 2019, 1-6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. That's a deal I'd get excited about. I'd even through in Justin Patton. Would Boston do this deal? I have no idea and no one has reported that Boston has any interest in Butler. But I actually think it would be a great deal for Boston. Butler along with Tatum, Kyrie, Horford, Brown and Smart has the makings of a team that could get past Toronto and actually give the Warriors a run for their money. Boston would still have all their own 1st round picks to go with a lot of young talent in Tatum, Brown, Smart and even Kyrie, who is only 25 or 26.

But if I'm just getting 4 picks in the 20s spread over 7 years and no talented young prospects, I just can't get excited.

Is BOS making that offer?

No Boston offer has been reported. I have no idea whether Boston has made or would make that offer. But if I were Thibodeau, I'd definitely make that offer. And I'd do it now in the immediate aftermath of the report about the Houston offer. I'd also call Pat Riley and tell him that he can hang up on me again or take one last shot at a reasonable deal for Butler.

First off, having Pat Riley whine at you because he's not getting his way is a badge of honor.

Second, you can only do the trades that are in front of you. Four 1sts/3 flips/5 2nds is very fair for JimmyBricks and anyone else other than KAT and Okogie.

I agree Riley whining at you is a badge of honor. The thrust of my post wasn't to gravel at Riley's feet. Instead, I'd envision Thibodeau going back to him from a position of strength and giving him one last chance to put up or shut up in his pursuit of Butler in the midst of a publicly reported offer from the Rockets.

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:2 more points.

IF the Rockets do this deal of let's just say Knight and Chriss for Butler...that means we suddenly have some space below the lux tax to offer a player some money above a vet min deal this season. I really don't know if Patrick McCaw is worth it (that's a strange deal Over there) but maybe we offer him some money and opportunity to play and we get a potentially intruiging player for basically nothing.

Speaking of opportunity let's say we do suck and Okogie or someone else doesn't step up to be that next wing player next to Wiggins. Guess who would have a possible wide open starting spot regardless of how much money we have to offer? This team. Someone that's moderatly worthwhile would likely take a decent amount of money on a 1 year deal to be a full time starter here.

Bonus point. If we suck...fine we get a better draft pick. That could be another upside of dealing Butler now. I've seen some positives from this team (and Thibs) along with some injuries already hitting other teams that it's even possible this team might actually not suck the whole year if Butler is dealt. This team is flawed without Butler but it's also not the preseason team we saw either.

Nice job making the case, Monster. As you know, I've been among those wanting to deal Butler sooner rather than later. But I think it's important to get at least one young promising player in the deal unless we get picks that are likely to be lottery picks. The Houston picks are likely to be in the 20s based on the players they have now and the recent track record of that organization finding ways to position itself as a contender.

I'd deal Butler to Boston for Hayward if we also received the 2019 Sacramento pick, which is highly likely to be a high lottery pick. Give me Hayward, the 2019 Kings pick and the Memphis pick, which is only 1-8 protected in 2019, 1-6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. That's a deal I'd get excited about. I'd even through in Justin Patton. Would Boston do this deal? I have no idea and no one has reported that Boston has any interest in Butler. But I actually think it would be a great deal for Boston. Butler along with Tatum, Kyrie, Horford, Brown and Smart has the makings of a team that could get past Toronto and actually give the Warriors a run for their money. Boston would still have all their own 1st round picks to go with a lot of young talent in Tatum, Brown, Smart and even Kyrie, who is only 25 or 26.

But if I'm just getting 4 picks in the 20s spread over 7 years and no talented young prospects, I just can't get excited.

Is BOS making that offer?

No Boston offer has been reported. I have no idea whether Boston has made or would make that offer. But if I were Thibodeau, I'd definitely make that offer. And I'd do it now in the immediate aftermath of the report about the Houston offer. I'd also call Pat Riley and tell him that he can hang up on me again or take one last shot at a reasonable deal for Butler.

First off, having Pat Riley whine at you because he's not getting his way is a badge of honor.

Second, you can only do the trades that are in front of you. Four 1sts/3 flips/5 2nds is very fair for JimmyBricks and anyone else other than KAT and Okogie.

I agree Riley whining at you is a badge of honor. The thrust of my post wasn't to gravel at Riley's feet. Instead, I'd envision Thibodeau going back to him from a position of strength and giving him one last chance to put up or shut up in his pursuit of Butler in the midst of a publicly reported offer from the Rockets.

Here's the thing: So now MIA does two picks, which will also be in the 20's? I don't see how that's better than 4. And like I said, maybe HOU also agrees to swap on the other 3 years. And their 2nd's. So if they go in the tank like Brooklyn that's a great haul. And if they don't, it's a GOOD haul. I just don't see MIA doing the same deal. But yeah, if they do, I like the current players they would move better than HOU's.

You're right that 4 picks in the 20s is better than 2 picks in the 20s. But a deal with Miami would also likely include a proven young talented player named Josh Richardson and at least one other proven player (Olynyk, Whiteside or Adebayo, not Waiters). I wouldn't make draft picks the centerpiece of a Butler deal unless at least one of the picks was likely to be a lottery pick. Based on Houston's current roster and front office track record, I think it's highly unlikely any of the Houston picks would be lottery picks. When Boston traded down last summer for Tatum, they received Sacramento's 2019 pick, which at the time was highly likely to be not just a lottery pick but a high lottery pick. And that was just for moving up two spots in the draft. That's what good organizations do. They don't get all excited about 4 picks in the 20s spread over 7 years. It's fool's gold.

The Rockets will be bad for 2 of these picks and will probably be bad for 3 of them. CP3 and Jimmy are gonna be on albatross untradeable deals in 2021 playing maybe 60 games with nothing left in the tank. This is a Brooklyn Nets level bad deal. Everyone thought that team in Brooklyn was gonna be the real deal and they all aged overnight and instantly became a horrible team and Boston capitalized. We're already seeing things fall apart in Houston and that's why this deal is even on the table. Morey may not be around if this team doesn't win a title in the next 3-4 years. They're all in with old guys and that's when you capitalize on a deal like this. Then we become bad for this year and probably next year, have two high picks on our own and then as we build around KAT and Wiggins we're gonna have an extra pick every other year to build around them. That's huge. Even remotely considering the Richardson deal as a more ideal scenario is crazy to me. How is the 10 seed for the near future better than bottoming out and building through the draft again? This is how you become a team like the Celtics adding an elite talent down the road when you are already in the playoffs and trying to compete for a title. I just have never heard of a team trading away 4 first round picks and coming out ahead. This is a war chest and better than any middle of the road team people are wanting to have to stay relevant.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:You don't have to make those picks in the 20's.

You're correct sir, Mr. Taylor loves to sell them!