Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:Kirk is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Those guys don't consistently make excuses every single year for what surrounds them to get the job done. He's had elite skill players since he got here and a good defense every year except this one and we aren't close to the top teams in the league. Needing a good line, elite skill guys and a top 5-10 defense is way too many things that have to go your way to be a real Super Bowl caliber QB.

You can win a SB without an elite QB. See Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hosteler, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Doug Williams, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, etc......

monsterpile wrote:Ravens are now 6-5 and Vikings 5-6.

https://twitter.com/tanishkamascara/status/1334284496426897412?s=21

"The Ngakoue curse is in full swing:

Vikings are 4-1 since trading him, and the Ravens are 1-4 since acquiring him."

That's crazy, haha.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Kirk is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Those guys don't consistently make excuses every single year for what surrounds them to get the job done. He's had elite skill players since he got here and a good defense every year except this one and we aren't close to the top teams in the league. Needing a good line, elite skill guys and a top 5-10 defense is way too many things that have to go your way to be a real Super Bowl caliber QB.

You can win a SB without an elite QB. See Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hosteler, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Doug Williams, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, etc......

Sure, but can you do it when Trent Dilfer is the highest paid player on the team? Or Brad Johnson or Nick Foles and on and on? That's the point. Kirk is paid to be a Super Bowl caliber QB in a way that he's not gonna be able to have the same level of talent around him as everyone one of those guys because his contract doesn't allow it. That's why he's not gonna win one. He needs everything around him to be near elite level and his contract prevents that from happening.

khans2k5 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Kirk is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Those guys don't consistently make excuses every single year for what surrounds them to get the job done. He's had elite skill players since he got here and a good defense every year except this one and we aren't close to the top teams in the league. Needing a good line, elite skill guys and a top 5-10 defense is way too many things that have to go your way to be a real Super Bowl caliber QB.

You can win a SB without an elite QB. See Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hosteler, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Doug Williams, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, etc......

Sure, but can you do it when Trent Dilfer is the highest paid player on the team? Or Brad Johnson or Nick Foles and on and on? That's the point. Kirk is paid to be a Super Bowl caliber QB in a way that he's not gonna be able to have the same level of talent around him as everyone one of those guys because his contract doesn't allow it. That's why he's not gonna win one. He needs everything around him to be near elite level and his contract prevents that from happening.

Several of those were backup QB's but Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco and Eli Manning I'm sure were the highest paid on their teams. QB's almost always are.

You make a good point about him outplaying his contract rather then maybe just living up to it or falling short.

I'd have to double check but I think Cousins is the 7th highest paid QB now. That's not terrible. Ideally you draft a QB who excels and the rest of the team can get paid too. Then you win a SB. Or that QB is like Brady and undercuts his salary so he can win.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Kirk is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Those guys don't consistently make excuses every single year for what surrounds them to get the job done. He's had elite skill players since he got here and a good defense every year except this one and we aren't close to the top teams in the league. Needing a good line, elite skill guys and a top 5-10 defense is way too many things that have to go your way to be a real Super Bowl caliber QB.

You can win a SB without an elite QB. See Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hosteler, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Doug Williams, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, etc......

I would say that Peyton Manning's second Superbowl with Denver was more similar to those other guys. In fact, he was flat out not good that season. But....he had a top tier defense and was a solid game manager in the playoffs.

Q12543 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Kirk is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Those guys don't consistently make excuses every single year for what surrounds them to get the job done. He's had elite skill players since he got here and a good defense every year except this one and we aren't close to the top teams in the league. Needing a good line, elite skill guys and a top 5-10 defense is way too many things that have to go your way to be a real Super Bowl caliber QB.

You can win a SB without an elite QB. See Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hosteler, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Doug Williams, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, etc......

I would say that Peyton Manning's second Superbowl with Denver was more similar to those other guys. In fact, he was flat out not good that season. But....he had a top tier defense and was a solid game manager in the playoffs.

Yeah Peyton was really limited that year. I was amazed how he could anticipate the WR getting open, then throw some weak throw out there and make a completion. He had lost all his arm by then. Brees is sort of looking that way now too, or was before he got his lung punctured and ribs fractured. Ouch.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Kirk is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Those guys don't consistently make excuses every single year for what surrounds them to get the job done. He's had elite skill players since he got here and a good defense every year except this one and we aren't close to the top teams in the league. Needing a good line, elite skill guys and a top 5-10 defense is way too many things that have to go your way to be a real Super Bowl caliber QB.

You can win a SB without an elite QB. See Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hosteler, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Doug Williams, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, etc......

I would say that Peyton Manning's second Superbowl with Denver was more similar to those other guys. In fact, he was flat out not good that season. But....he had a top tier defense and was a solid game manager in the playoffs.

Yeah Peyton was really limited that year. I was amazed how he could anticipate the WR getting open, then throw some weak throw out there and make a completion. He had lost all his arm by then. Brees is sort of looking that way now too, or was before he got his lung punctured and ribs fractured. Ouch.

I haven't really watched Brees this year but the Saints The last couple season play a very different style of offense than they used to. They run the ball a lot and play to the strength of Kamara. Brees doesn't have to do quite as much now. It's sort of a reverse of Russell Wilson who now is bombing his way to try and win games because the defense sucks so they can't just rely on the running game playing things safe and the defense to keep the other teams from putting points on the board.

As for Cousins...he is going to be pretty expensive the next couple years (31 million and 45 million cap hits) unless something happens with him giving up some money. He has played well enough lately it seems unlikely they are gonna take a massive cap hit to dump him. His 21 million cap hit this year is obviously more than a drafted guy but it's not exactly a ridiculous number either. Joe Burrow will count over 8 million against the cap next season which is great if he is healthy and playing well but it's not totally cheap. If Cousins was willing to make a sacrifice and bring his money down to something closer to 25 million instead of 35 million that would certainly help. That could keep a couple defensive players like Smith for at least another year. At this point he might want to give up money just to keep Reiff as his LT.

That's the thing with Cousins if he was making X amount of money many people wouldn't be all over him all the time. It's true his high salary keeps the team from spending elsewhere. I think he could bring in a lot of goodwill towards himself (not that it would matter on the field but the $ savings would) with fans if he took a legit pay cut even if he was still getting a pretty nice salary like I suggested. I think it's possible something like this happens.

Edit: cousins is 20th in the NFL in attempts 2nd in yards per completion (Watson passed him again) and has 23 TDs good for 7th in the NFL. His career high for TDs in a season is 30 his first season with the Vikings. He is now on pass to pass that.

Meanwhile Jefferson is nearly matching Diggs production (Yards) and has 2 more TDs. He needs a little over 80 yards to break 1,000 for the season. Jefferson, Thielen Cook and Rudolph help Cousins but Cousins is helping Jefferson put up a pretty impressive rookie season. Just looked up the receiving leaders this year...wow Terry
McLauren puts up numbers no matter who is playing QB though. The QB play in that whole division with Dak out is...yikes. They are brining in former Vikings backups for visits! Lol

Well...that was another wild Vikings game and with Arizona losing to the Rams the Vikings currently have the last playoff spot. If this team could eliminate some of their mistakes they would be a much better team but that's obviously easier said than done. Oline wasn't particularly good in this game and the Vikings mostly had to dial up pressure to get to Glennon. It's been quite the season let's see how they screw it up. Lol

monsterpile wrote:Well...that was another wild Vikings game and with Arizona losing to the Rams the Vikings currently have the last playoff spot. If this team could eliminate some of their mistakes they would be a much better team but that's obviously easier said than done. Oline wasn't particularly good in this game and the Vikings mostly had to dial up pressure to get to Glennon. It's been quite the season let's see how they screw it up. Lol

Man, 2 missed extra points and a FG by Bailey. What is the deal with this team and kickers!? I'm not sure the chip shot game-winner totally redeemed him either. The game would have never gone to OT had he just made one of those three prior kicks.

Good to see this team keep competing, but it's starting to feel like their offense is underachieving a bit and their defense is overachieving.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well...that was another wild Vikings game and with Arizona losing to the Rams the Vikings currently have the last playoff spot. If this team could eliminate some of their mistakes they would be a much better team but that's obviously easier said than done. Oline wasn't particularly good in this game and the Vikings mostly had to dial up pressure to get to Glennon. It's been quite the season let's see how they screw it up. Lol

Man, 2 missed extra points and a FG by Bailey. What is the deal with this team and kickers!? I'm not sure the chip shot game-winner totally redeemed him either. The game would have never gone to OT had he just made one of those three prior kicks.

Good to see this team keep competing, but it's starting to feel like their offense is underachieving a bit and their defense is overachieving.

Well...it's worth remembering that the other kicker Chase McLaughlin was protected on the practice squad by the Vikings for Weeks and it was the 2nd year they had signed him. He missed an extra point too. It would have been even more brutal if he had beaten us. lol

The defense has been doing a pretty decent job all things considered and yeah you might be right about them overachieving. Not having Kendricks today was a pretty big deal especially when they game planned for him to be in there. The problem with the defense is that it seems like they haven't really been able to finish games with a stop. It's a hard ask to be honest with some of the guys they are running out there. They are often doing enough and they certainly did today. What's been weird in a couple of these games is High level guys like Thielen and Cook have had negative plays that have hurt the team.