Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:How do Smart and Derrick White compare to each other?

Marcus Smart's reputation has exceeded his on-court value for years now. He's a much lesser threat offensively than Derrick White, especially as a ball-handler and shot creator. They both struggle with inconsistent perimeter shooting. The key difference in their value to me is that White is the much better individual defender at both guard positions. He guards ones and twos as well as anyone else in the league. Smart's value defensively comes in the form of versatility as he's a capable defender of 1-4, which plays well in a switching concept. No longer can he truly take on the toughest perimeter player on a nightly basis and take them out of their rhythm, though.

BPM/VORP
White: 1.5/1.2
Smart: -0.3/0.6

White also has three-years, $53-million left on his deal after this year. Smart has four-years, $77-million left on his deal. Give me White all day.

Sure.

And maybe I missed it... but is White available?

I'd think he'd cost more than Marcus Smart for the reasons you outline.

The Spurs have reportedly been listening to offers for Derrick White dating back to this summer leading up to the draft. There have also been reports recently that he's available as well. I don't think San Antonio is actively looking to offload him, but they know they're rebuilding and he could net some significant assets.

Id really like Nesmith and Richardson for Beasley. I think Nesmith would have a lot of potential under Finch.

thedoper wrote:Id really like Nesmith and Richardson for Beasley. I think Nesmith would have a lot of potential under Finch.

Aaron Nesmith seems like another guy that just needs some opportunities in a new environment to become a pretty nice player. He showed real flashes/production in the last 20 games of his rookie year. He needs out of Boston.

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:How do Smart and Derrick White compare to each other?

Marcus Smart's reputation has exceeded his on-court value for years now. He's a much lesser threat offensively than Derrick White, especially as a ball-handler and shot creator. They both struggle with inconsistent perimeter shooting. The key difference in their value to me is that White is the much better individual defender at both guard positions. He guards ones and twos as well as anyone else in the league. Smart's value defensively comes in the form of versatility as he's a capable defender of 1-4, which plays well in a switching concept. No longer can he truly take on the toughest perimeter player on a nightly basis and take them out of their rhythm, though.

BPM/VORP
White: 1.5/1.2
Smart: -0.3/0.6

White also has three-years, $53-million left on his deal after this year. Smart has four-years, $77-million left on his deal. Give me White all day.

The question I have is which one of those guys would cost more in terms of assets? I think I saw the other night that nobody scored when Smart was matched up with them. I agree with you that the last year of Smart's deal that's 22 million is worrisome.

Not at all meaning to sound condescending here, but the better player on the more favorable contract is going to cost more in assets. Derrick White should be worth more on the trade market, and deservedly so.

That entire deal for Marcus Smart is awful, in my opinion. I get that Boston was stuck in a hard place, but he's just not that kind of player.

I get where you are coming from and I'll defer to your knowledge of White and probably Smart also as I haven't watched Smart play much for at least a season or 2. I should clarify that my interest in Smart would be if we could get him for not much in terms of assets given up. I kinda doubt the Celtics would really do that though so it probably doesn't matter.

Sometimes it's worth exploring getting a guy that is down a bit for various reasons and therefore more easily acquired. Beasley fits this for other teams but his risk is lower too with his contract. I'm not saying I'm all in on Marcus Smart but there may be another guy that may fit that profile of down a hit and maybe somewhat overpaid that the Wolves may be able to add and reap the benefits.

monsterpile wrote:I get where you are coming from and I'll defer to your knowledge of White and probably Smart also as I haven't watched Smart play much for at least a season or 2. I should clarify that my interest in Smart would be if we could get him for not much in terms of assets given up. I kinda doubt the Celtics would really do that though so it probably doesn't matter.

Sometimes it's worth exploring getting a guy that is down a bit for various reasons and therefore more easily acquired. Beasley fits this for other teams but his risk is lower too with his contract. I'm not saying I'm all in on Marcus Smart but there may be another guy that may fit that profile of down a hit and maybe somewhat overpaid that the Wolves may be able to add and reap the benefits.

Absolutely agree with the bolded. That's largely what intrigues me about Spencer Dinwiddie. He's a lot better than what his numbers for the season indicate. He's also just a year removed from tearing his ACL. I would think that he's going to struggle a bit before getting back to what he once was. He'll be a nice buy-low target for some team even if it's not the Wolves.

This things can be fluid but right now which guy would you be less likely to want to trade away for this season?

Taurean Prince
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Jake Layman
Naz Reid

I bring this up because if I was deciding between moving Prince and Beasley right now I'd be moving Beasley no question. A few weeks ago I doubt the decision was quite as easy as it seems right now. I think this roster has some tweaks that can be made but I also see guys on this roster capable of actually giving the team some worthwhile contributions well above what they had been giving this season. McLaughlin looks to have been solid since being needed and some credit should probably go to him for staying ready. Will another guy step up and contribute like Prince has the past couple months?

monsterpile wrote:This things can be fluid but right now which guy would you be less likely to want to trade away for this season?

Taurean Prince
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Jake Layman
Naz Reid

I bring this up because if I was deciding between moving Prince and Beasley right now I'd be moving Beasley no question. A few weeks ago I doubt the decision was quite as easy as it seems right now. I think this roster has some tweaks that can be made but I also see guys on this roster capable of actually giving the team some worthwhile contributions well above what they had been giving this season. McLaughlin looks to have been solid since being needed and some credit should probably go to him for staying ready. Will another guy step up and contribute like Prince has the past couple months?

In order of who I'd least like to trade to most like to trade, my list would be: Naz Reid, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, Malik Beasley, and Jake Layman. I imagine that many Wolves fans feel that way with perhaps a switch of Prince and Beasley for some. I think Prince has really come on strong as of late and has his last 30 games to support this. Beasley's awareness, or lack thereof, on defense and his desire to be the man in big moments -- despite not being able to create open looks for himself -- is a huge turnoff to me.

I agree that sometimes players can simply flip a switch and begin producing, but oftentimes you need to be aggressive and go get a superior player instead of waiting around.

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:This things can be fluid but right now which guy would you be less likely to want to trade away for this season?

Taurean Prince
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Jake Layman
Naz Reid

I bring this up because if I was deciding between moving Prince and Beasley right now I'd be moving Beasley no question. A few weeks ago I doubt the decision was quite as easy as it seems right now. I think this roster has some tweaks that can be made but I also see guys on this roster capable of actually giving the team some worthwhile contributions well above what they had been giving this season. McLaughlin looks to have been solid since being needed and some credit should probably go to him for staying ready. Will another guy step up and contribute like Prince has the past couple months?

In order of who I'd least like to trade to most like to trade, my list would be: Naz Reid, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, Malik Beasley, and Jake Layman. I imagine that many Wolves fans feel that way with perhaps a switch of Prince and Beasley for some. I think Prince has really come on strong as of late and has his last 30 games to support this. Beasley's awareness, or lack thereof, on defense and his desire to be the man in big moments -- despite not being able to create open looks for himself -- is a huge turnoff to me.

I agree that sometimes players can simply flip a switch and begin producing, but oftentimes you need to be aggressive and go get a superior player instead of waiting around.

You want to move Jake that bad? What did he ever do to you?!?! Lol jk

One thing that's a positive about Beasley if he actually starts making shots again is he doesn't need the ball. I think that's going to be a reason why some teams will have interest in acquiring him as well. If the Wolves moved him they might now have that other guy that can really go off any given night. There is value in that (depending on what the Wolves get back for Beasley).

On the flip side of Prince is...he might have some actual trade value now. I think he is a good fit with the wolves right now as a vet guy that can make 3 point shots and actually do more than just stand in the corner on offense but obviously if he can help bring the wolves a much better player/s then sure I would move him.

I think at this point I would also mention if we are going to give up assets to get a player like Derick White or Dinwiddie I might be inclined to see about moving a young player like Reid (assuming we could replace him with a player in some way) or Bolmaro than a draft pick. We need those cheap contracts and while it can get old chasing having young cheap guys with potential I would assume whatever more significant acquisition we made would be for a guy that's reasonably established so that keeps the team from being as young etc in the next couple years. Naz or Bolmaro seem like guys that might interest the Spurs. They like international guys and it seems like they like players that can help them sooner rather than later (Naz). I really don't want to move Naz but it also feels like we could end up losing him for nothing. There is also a chance that something could change and we would want to keep him on the roster longer term after all.

Anyway I think the Wolves are in a reasonably good spot. They have some assets they can use to make a deal. Are they super thrilling to other teams? Maybe not but the Wolves are also in a spot where it's not like they absolutely HAVE TO make a medal to upgrade. Like you said they should be pursuing superior talent and if the price is right they should do it. I'll also be ok letting other teams overpay for that supposed superior player.

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:This things can be fluid but right now which guy would you be less likely to want to trade away for this season?

Taurean Prince
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Jake Layman
Naz Reid

I bring this up because if I was deciding between moving Prince and Beasley right now I'd be moving Beasley no question. A few weeks ago I doubt the decision was quite as easy as it seems right now. I think this roster has some tweaks that can be made but I also see guys on this roster capable of actually giving the team some worthwhile contributions well above what they had been giving this season. McLaughlin looks to have been solid since being needed and some credit should probably go to him for staying ready. Will another guy step up and contribute like Prince has the past couple months?

In order of who I'd least like to trade to most like to trade, my list would be: Naz Reid, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, Malik Beasley, and Jake Layman. I imagine that many Wolves fans feel that way with perhaps a switch of Prince and Beasley for some. I think Prince has really come on strong as of late and has his last 30 games to support this. Beasley's awareness, or lack thereof, on defense and his desire to be the man in big moments -- despite not being able to create open looks for himself -- is a huge turnoff to me.

I agree that sometimes players can simply flip a switch and begin producing, but oftentimes you need to be aggressive and go get a superior player instead of waiting around.

I think all of those players you listed should be in tier 1 together. They are either expiring, will be overpaid, or do not fit in the long term plans. Our team is definitely not contending this year, so get assets if you can, or package for an actual ceiling mover.

I still really want that Celtics deal to be made.

My ideal trade deadline deals would be this:

Beasley for Richardson and Nesmith.

Beverley and Okogie or Layman + this year's first or all 3 seconds for White from the Spurs.

Sign a situational big for the last roster spot. Be it a fluid defensive pf (hard to find) or just a big body center to bang in the post.

(Note:
I would love this trade: Prince and Okogie/Layman and picks for Turner from Indiana if the White trade doesn't work out. (the harder part here is getting Turner to accept a 20-24 minute role off the bench.)

I really like Reid but I think he could get us a nice asset with his upside and I would like a back up big with more aggression. When the three was falling for Naz it made a bit more sense. For that reason him and Beasley make the most sense as legit trade assets without shaking up the team too much. Id be fine with moving Prince or Layman but right now they just feel more like salary fillers.