Camden wrote:Speaking of Julius Randle, he's also balling out tonight against the Sixers. 18 points in the first half on 8-9 shooting including two threes, which is unexpected but perhaps something to watch this season.
He would have been a much better acquisition than Ricky and I suspect we could have acquired him for the same package we gave up for Ricky. Myles Turner would have been my first choice for a preseason acquisition, but it probably would have required the Wolves to give up too much.
Think we need to be patient with Ricky. Even though he "struggled" he still had a 9/4/4 stat line and was one again +6. Think it really helps having a guy who can just run a offense. Can set up others and I am curious to see the numbers for Ant and Culver when they are on the floor with Rubio
I thought Jordan McLaughlin raised the bar last year of what we can expect from a backup point guard. I'd argue that last year's version of him is better than what I've seen from Ricky Rubio through three preseason games and two regular season games. Also, there is no logical reason to trade a mid-first-round pick for a backup point guard, especially one making $17M annually. Wolves fans have officially gotten caught up in nostalgia.
I like Jmac, I really do but it's still such a small sample size. It's just not nostalgia for me with Ricky I think he does a lot of little things to help us win. Like if Randle was on this team, he is with sub par defender and another mouth to feed. Turner I think has pretty much 0 trade value in the league because the Celtics didn't even want him in a SnT. Its a wait an see but Ricky 17 million dollar expiring will be an asset next year and he is a big contract the Wolves can put into a trade that isn't a negative asset without giving up a member of the "core"
I'm not necessarily pounding the table for Randle here, but acquiring him likely meant Hernangomez would not have been re-signed and we'd actually have some legitimate productivity at the four spot. Would you rather have another mouth to feed that's capable of eating or guys that require touches to be valuable but flat out suck? That's the more accurate question.
And we're not going to act like the Wolves traded for Rubio because he'll be an expiring deal next year. There are a number of guys that fit that criteria. Randle has a $19.8M expiring next year. It's just one of those "so what" type details, you know?
Camden wrote:Speaking of Julius Randle, he's also balling out tonight against the Sixers. 18 points in the first half on 8-9 shooting including two threes, which is unexpected but perhaps something to watch this season.
He would have been a much better acquisition than Ricky and I suspect we could have acquired him for the same package we gave up for Ricky. Myles Turner would have been my first choice for a preseason acquisition, but it probably would have required the Wolves to give up too much.
Think we need to be patient with Ricky. Even though he "struggled" he still had a 9/4/4 stat line and was one again +6. Think it really helps having a guy who can just run a offense. Can set up others and I am curious to see the numbers for Ant and Culver when they are on the floor with Rubio
I thought Ricky was terrific tonight. His defensive was very good- D-Lo needs to learn from Ricky how to close out on threes. And while he only had 6 assists (and only the one stupid turnover) he consistently found a way to make the right pass into the paint- I can't prove this, but it seemed like most of our free throws resulted from perfect Rubio passes, even though he doesn't get an assist on those.
There are reasons a poor shooter like Ricky has been a positive plus/minus player his entire career. I continue to think Rosas giving up low value late picks to pick up Ricky to work with this young roster was grand theft larceny.
Camden wrote:Speaking of Julius Randle, he's also balling out tonight against the Sixers. 18 points in the first half on 8-9 shooting including two threes, which is unexpected but perhaps something to watch this season.
He would have been a much better acquisition than Ricky and I suspect we could have acquired him for the same package we gave up for Ricky. Myles Turner would have been my first choice for a preseason acquisition, but it probably would have required the Wolves to give up too much.
Think we need to be patient with Ricky. Even though he "struggled" he still had a 9/4/4 stat line and was one again +6. Think it really helps having a guy who can just run a offense. Can set up others and I am curious to see the numbers for Ant and Culver when they are on the floor with Rubio
I thought Ricky was terrific tonight. His defensive was very good- D-Lo needs to learn from Ricky how to close out on threes. And while he only had 6 assists (and only the one stupid turnover) he consistently found a way to make the right pass into the paint- I can't prove this, but it seemed like most of our free throws resulted from perfect Rubio passes, even though he doesn't get an assist on those.
There are reasons a poor shooter like Ricky has been a positive plus/minus player his entire career. I continue to think Rosas giving up low value late picks to pick up Ricky to work with this young roster was grand theft larceny.
Randle would have been cheaper than Ricky - commenting to those you quoted.
Also, I dislike Randle. Cannot really shoot. Is a big that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. I do not see the fit.
Ricky is great. Not perfect, but makes any team better. He just knows how to play the game.
Grand theft larceny is getting a team to trade a mid-first for a backup point guard -- which is how Minnesota is using him -- making a whopping $17M a year! What are we even talking about anymore? This board seemed close to unanimous about letting Tyus Jones walk on a three-year, $26M offer sheet because it was too much to pay for a backup point guard. The Wolves are paying almost 100-percent more than that annual salary for Rubio! He's the 67th-highest paid player in the league and he's in a reserve role with some serious limitations in his game.
Look, I fully understand that he's a useful player and he's easily one of the most-liked players in franchise history, but we're tiptoeing past rational thinking here. This team already had D'Angelo Russell and was almost certain to retain Jordan McLaughlin. And there were/are available point guards that could adequately fill up reserve minutes. Acquiring another point guard was never a need, but definitely a luxury. And they paid a price for Rubio both in dollars and assets that one would spend on a starter playing 30-35 minutes a night.
Minnesota knowingly ignored a huge hole in the frontcourt to acquire Rubio and tried to patch it up with some combination of Juan Hernangomez, Jake Layman, and Josh Okogie. So far, we've seen the ramifications of that, but it just hasn't cost the Wolves any games yet. That doesn't make the trade for Rubio itself any less egregious.
Different views, Camden, and that's fine. I get as excited about anyone draft night about guys I love who are available, but to be honest, most of the late first round guys I loved on draft night haven't panned out. And I think we can all agree that no matter who was running the draft, the Wolves haven't had many blockbuster picks outside the lottery in their history. So for Rosas to pick up a savvy veteran player who has always been a plus player and who guys like Booker and Favors rave about is a coup in my humble opinion.
This team is one of the youngest in the league, and to ask the coaching staff to have to develop one or two more raw rookies instead of adding a "coach on the court" would have been unwise. We didn't need any more rookies- we needed someone to be a steadying influence on our very young guys who could become stars. If we had a board poll about what the Wolves record was going to be after the first two games, I don't think many of us would have picked 2-0- I know I wouldn't have. Is Ricky Rubio the only reason for the surprise start? Of course not. But nobody can argue his plus 23 in the first two games hasn't been a major contributor. And I also give him a lot of credit for Ant, Culver and Josh exceeding expectations so far. I'm confident some of the guys I loved and were available in our draft slots wouldn't be plus 23 after two games.
I agree with Cam on Rubio. And I'm a huge Rubio fan. But giving up a first round pick for a back-up point guard at $17M per year for two years seems way out of wack for a team that desperately needs help in the front court and on the boards and that already has DLO and JMac as well as a bevy of SGs. I might think differently if the Wolves didn't intent to re-sign Beasley, which might have meant sliding DLO over to SG most of the time. But Rosas clearly intended to re-sign Beasley. And he drafted Edwards. And he kept Culver (thankfully).
While I've had doubts about Gersson's decisions to draft Culver and Edwards, I'm on the road to becoming a believer and ultimately praising him for those picks. But I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that re-signing Juancho at $7M per year and trading for Rubio were mistakes. More than anything, these two moves had opportunity costs in the form of foregoing the signing or acquisition of quality front-court players this team needs. So far so good, but the lack of quality front-court players will catch up with this team over the long haul. We saw some of that last night in the huge rebounding discrepancy. It will really show if KAT goes down for a stretch with his write injury.
lipoli390 wrote:I agree with Cam on Rubio. And I'm a huge Rubio fan. But giving up a first round pick for a back-up point guard at $17M per year for two years seems way out of wack for a team that desperately needs help in the front court and on the boards and that already has DLO and JMac as well as a bevy of SGs. I might think differently if the Wolves didn't intent to re-sign Beasley, which might have meant sliding DLO over to SG most of the time. But Rosas clearly intended to re-sign Beasley. And he drafted Edwards. And he kept Culver (thankfully).
While I've had doubts about Gersson's decisions to draft Culver and Edwards, I'm on the road to becoming a believer and ultimately praising him for those picks. But I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that re-signing Juancho at $7M per year and trading for Rubio were mistakes. More than anything, these two moves had opportunity costs in the form of foregoing the signing or acquisition of quality front-court players this team needs. So far so good, but the lack of quality front-court players will catch up with this team over the long haul. We saw some of that last night in the huge rebounding discrepancy. It will really show if KAT goes down for a stretch with his write injury.
With all that said I just went through every player who gets minutes on the Wolves through 2 games and lineups that have had Ricky Rubio in them have been our best lineups. Outscoring opponents by 22.1 pts per 100 possessions, what is a team best (second best is Culver at +20). Obviously these numbers can be extremely noisy and its such a small sample size but Rubio through 2 games has done what he has done for the rest of his career. The Wolves have been better with him on the court. In my opinion that is worth moving back a couple of spots in the draft.
Well, it was possible to address the frontcourt AND get Ricky. The Juancho re-signing appears for now to be the far more egregious mistake.
I also don't view Ricky as a typical backup PG, like Tyus Jones. He's been in the closing 5-man unit both games and you can tell Saunders wants him out there with DLO and KAT in crucial moments. Saddiq Bey, as much as I love him as a prospect, was not going to help us close out games this year.
One last thing. With the confidence and aggressiveness we're seeing from Beasley and Edwards, this team is starting to have a lot of mouths to feed. KAT, DLO, Beasley and Edwards....it's good to have a PG whose #1 priority is getting the ball to gifted scorers and playmakers and has a track record of success in doing so.
