Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Three votes for trading DLO, Bolmaro and three FRPs for DeJounte Murray by Mackie, Judd and Declan. They all pondered whether they could trade DLO, McDaniels and three FRPs for DeJounte and all then said no. I'm pretty much in agreement, 3 FRPs is fine, just don't add McDaniels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1pEwjUptc8

Personally I think that is just way to much. That means the wolves can't trade a 1st for 7 years. I think Murray is better then Dlo but Murray is a borderline all star. He might never make another all star game. He can also leave in 2 years.

Murray is an upgrade but I don't think he puts the wolves in the title picture. If we trade 3 1st round picks I want someone better than Murray

Also, if the Wolves got Murray this year, I think they could still add a max free agent next year and have an awesome core moving forward, if Lore/A Rod are ok with paying some luxury tax.

I'd trade 3 Kesslers for Murray. No hesitation. Wolves with their current players will never be in title contention, at least, with Murray they'd have some chance. DLO is not the answer and the Wolves will have a tough time getting out of the first round with DLO as the point guard. He can be exploited in the playoffs by good teams. What is your solution at point guard?

It's not the players the wolves would draft at those positions it's the point of the wolves would not be able to trade a 1st round pick for 7 years if they make that trade. Any big name player that comes around the wolves are just automatically out of it because of this trade. Like I would be saying this also if Beasley and 3 FRP for Murray was available also instead of Dlo.

We lose so much roster flexibility going forward to add a player that is a borderline all star. Like Murray is like the 40th best player in the NBA and Murray can just walk in 2 years.

Like I would do Murray for Dlo or Beasley, Kessler, Moore and next year 1st in a heart beat it's the flexibility being unable to trade future 1sts that is the killer for me.

If you sub Dlo for Murray, where do you think the wolves stack up in the West next year? I would say maybe 4th or 5th. Murray is a needle mover but he doesn't put us in legit title contention to lose roster flexibility for 7 years

Murray puts the Wolves in the mix for the 3rd seed behind Warriors and Clippers. Without Murray, the Wolves are 7th or 8th seed. Why is Atlanta so eager to consummate a deal on essentially the same terms, Gallo and three FRPs? They are kind of like Wolves with a few good pieces but not enough to be a legit contender. I think they think Murray gives them a chance to take them to next level. Supposedly, Spurs are looking to tank for Wembayana and want to collect assets for a future run. Supposedly, its up to Pop whether to embrace a full rebuild or not.

One small, but not insignificant, difference... Atlanta has a 1st rd. pick coming to them from Atlanta either next year or the following year.

Mitch and Murray have sent me on a mission of mercy to point out, that though it is true that ATL does have picks coming from ATL, you probably meant Charlotte.

Anytime someone starts telling me how rich they are going to be from their big commissions from selling lots-and-lots, I always tell them "Go watch Glenngary Glenross, because if you aren't careful and diligent, that's how your life could end up".

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Three votes for trading DLO, Bolmaro and three FRPs for DeJounte Murray by Mackie, Judd and Declan. They all pondered whether they could trade DLO, McDaniels and three FRPs for DeJounte and all then said no. I'm pretty much in agreement, 3 FRPs is fine, just don't add McDaniels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1pEwjUptc8

Personally I think that is just way to much. That means the wolves can't trade a 1st for 7 years. I think Murray is better then Dlo but Murray is a borderline all star. He might never make another all star game. He can also leave in 2 years.

Murray is an upgrade but I don't think he puts the wolves in the title picture. If we trade 3 1st round picks I want someone better than Murray

Also, if the Wolves got Murray this year, I think they could still add a max free agent next year and have an awesome core moving forward, if Lore/A Rod are ok with paying some luxury tax.

I'd trade 3 Kesslers for Murray. No hesitation. Wolves with their current players will never be in title contention, at least, with Murray they'd have some chance. DLO is not the answer and the Wolves will have a tough time getting out of the first round with DLO as the point guard. He can be exploited in the playoffs by good teams. What is your solution at point guard?

It's not the players the wolves would draft at those positions it's the point of the wolves would not be able to trade a 1st round pick for 7 years if they make that trade. Any big name player that comes around the wolves are just automatically out of it because of this trade. Like I would be saying this also if Beasley and 3 FRP for Murray was available also instead of Dlo.

We lose so much roster flexibility going forward to add a player that is a borderline all star. Like Murray is like the 40th best player in the NBA and Murray can just walk in 2 years.

Like I would do Murray for Dlo or Beasley, Kessler, Moore and next year 1st in a heart beat it's the flexibility being unable to trade future 1sts that is the killer for me.

If you sub Dlo for Murray, where do you think the wolves stack up in the West next year? I would say maybe 4th or 5th.
Murray is a needle mover but he doesn't put us in legit title contention to lose roster flexibility for 7 years

Murray puts the Wolves in the mix for the 3rd seed behind Warriors and Clippers. Without Murray, the Wolves are 7th or 8th seed. Why is Atlanta so eager to consummate a deal on essentially the same terms, Gallo and three FRPs? They are kind of like Wolves with a few good pieces but not enough to be a legit contender. I think they think Murray gives them a chance to take them to next level. Supposedly, Spurs are looking to tank for Wembayana and want to collect assets for a future run. Supposedly, its up to Pop whether to embrace a full rebuild or not.

One small, but not insignificant, difference... Atlanta has a 1st rd. pick coming to them from Atlanta either next year or the following year.

Mitch and Murray have sent me on a mission of mercy to point out, that though it is true that ATL does have picks coming from ATL, you probably meant Charlotte.

Anytime someone starts telling me how rich they are going to be from their big commissions from selling lots-and-lots, I always tell them "Go watch Glenngary Glenross, because if you aren't careful and diligent, that's how your life could end up".

Atlanta... Charlotte... Minneapolis. All the same!

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Three votes for trading DLO, Bolmaro and three FRPs for DeJounte Murray by Mackie, Judd and Declan. They all pondered whether they could trade DLO, McDaniels and three FRPs for DeJounte and all then said no. I'm pretty much in agreement, 3 FRPs is fine, just don't add McDaniels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1pEwjUptc8

Personally I think that is just way to much. That means the wolves can't trade a 1st for 7 years. I think Murray is better then Dlo but Murray is a borderline all star. He might never make another all star game. He can also leave in 2 years.

Murray is an upgrade but I don't think he puts the wolves in the title picture. If we trade 3 1st round picks I want someone better than Murray

Also, if the Wolves got Murray this year, I think they could still add a max free agent next year and have an awesome core moving forward, if Lore/A Rod are ok with paying some luxury tax.

I'd trade 3 Kesslers for Murray. No hesitation. Wolves with their current players will never be in title contention, at least, with Murray they'd have some chance. DLO is not the answer and the Wolves will have a tough time getting out of the first round with DLO as the point guard. He can be exploited in the playoffs by good teams. What is your solution at point guard?

It's not the players the wolves would draft at those positions it's the point of the wolves would not be able to trade a 1st round pick for 7 years if they make that trade. Any big name player that comes around the wolves are just automatically out of it because of this trade. Like I would be saying this also if Beasley and 3 FRP for Murray was available also instead of Dlo.

We lose so much roster flexibility going forward to add a player that is a borderline all star. Like Murray is like the 40th best player in the NBA and Murray can just walk in 2 years.

Like I would do Murray for Dlo or Beasley, Kessler, Moore and next year 1st in a heart beat it's the flexibility being unable to trade future 1sts that is the killer for me.

If you sub Dlo for Murray, where do you think the wolves stack up in the West next year? I would say maybe 4th or 5th. Murray is a needle mover but he doesn't put us in legit title contention to lose roster flexibility for 7 years

Murray puts the Wolves in the mix for the 3rd seed behind Warriors and Clippers. Without Murray, the Wolves are 7th or 8th seed. Why is Atlanta so eager to consummate a deal on essentially the same terms, Gallo and three FRPs? They are kind of like Wolves with a few good pieces but not enough to be a legit contender. I think they think Murray gives them a chance to take them to next level. Supposedly, Spurs are looking to tank for Wembayana and want to collect assets for a future run. Supposedly, its up to Pop whether to embrace a full rebuild or not.

Great, just what this board needed: Another guy who thinks every non-wolf is better than every Wolf. Let's discuss.

So once upon a time, Murray made an all-star team putting up numbers on a team with a bad record. Better than not putting up numbers, but lets call it what it is. Because of this, a got a contract that affords him generational wealth (if managed correctly), but is still a bargain for that team. Now, if he joins MIN, he's joining a team with two top-30 CALIBER players, so some of those numbers may drop, especially the scoring. And his contract ends in two years. So if he is still able to elevate his production, MIN can have 3 very expensive players, or lose him to some team with cap room, and MIN still owes SAS TWO more picks. If he not able to elevate or even maintain, MIN won't be "3rd in the West", and now those picks are closer to 15 than they are to 30, but the good news is he'll still be there because no one else will overpay him.

Either way, I'm totally sure you'll stand by these comments and not go back and delete them and say "Not me". Again, VERY FEW guys are worth 3 firsts, and Murray is not one of them. And seriously, go back and look at all of the trades with three firsts, or three prospects who are former firsts, or hell even a 1st/2nd/3rd. Who does it again? The Bills with Diggs? Probably. I can't think of anyone else.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Three votes for trading DLO, Bolmaro and three FRPs for DeJounte Murray by Mackie, Judd and Declan. They all pondered whether they could trade DLO, McDaniels and three FRPs for DeJounte and all then said no. I'm pretty much in agreement, 3 FRPs is fine, just don't add McDaniels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1pEwjUptc8

Personally I think that is just way to much. That means the wolves can't trade a 1st for 7 years. I think Murray is better then Dlo but Murray is a borderline all star. He might never make another all star game. He can also leave in 2 years.

Murray is an upgrade but I don't think he puts the wolves in the title picture. If we trade 3 1st round picks I want someone better than Murray

Also, if the Wolves got Murray this year, I think they could still add a max free agent next year and have an awesome core moving forward, if Lore/A Rod are ok with paying some luxury tax.

I'd trade 3 Kesslers for Murray. No hesitation. Wolves with their current players will never be in title contention, at least, with Murray they'd have some chance. DLO is not the answer and the Wolves will have a tough time getting out of the first round with DLO as the point guard. He can be exploited in the playoffs by good teams. What is your solution at point guard?

It's not the players the wolves would draft at those positions it's the point of the wolves would not be able to trade a 1st round pick for 7 years if they make that trade. Any big name player that comes around the wolves are just automatically out of it because of this trade. Like I would be saying this also if Beasley and 3 FRP for Murray was available also instead of Dlo.

We lose so much roster flexibility going forward to add a player that is a borderline all star. Like Murray is like the 40th best player in the NBA and Murray can just walk in 2 years.

Like I would do Murray for Dlo or Beasley, Kessler, Moore and next year 1st in a heart beat it's the flexibility being unable to trade future 1sts that is the killer for me.

If you sub Dlo for Murray, where do you think the wolves stack up in the West next year? I would say maybe 4th or 5th.
Murray is a needle mover but he doesn't put us in legit title contention to lose roster flexibility for 7 years

Murray puts the Wolves in the mix for the 3rd seed behind Warriors and Clippers. Without Murray, the Wolves are 7th or 8th seed. Why is Atlanta so eager to consummate a deal on essentially the same terms, Gallo and three FRPs? They are kind of like Wolves with a few good pieces but not enough to be a legit contender. I think they think Murray gives them a chance to take them to next level. Supposedly, Spurs are looking to tank for Wembayana and want to collect assets for a future run. Supposedly, its up to Pop whether to embrace a full rebuild or not.

One small, but not insignificant, difference... Atlanta has a 1st rd. pick coming to them from Atlanta either next year or the following year.

Mitch and Murray have sent me on a mission of mercy to point out, that though it is true that ATL does have picks coming from ATL, you probably meant Charlotte.

Anytime someone starts telling me how rich they are going to be from their big commissions from selling lots-and-lots, I always tell them "Go watch Glenngary Glenross, because if you aren't careful and diligent, that's how your life could end up".

Atlanta... Charlotte... Minneapolis. All the same!

I thought that the Hawks had found a loophole where they trade a 1st round pick to themselves.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Three votes for trading DLO, Bolmaro and three FRPs for DeJounte Murray by Mackie, Judd and Declan. They all pondered whether they could trade DLO, McDaniels and three FRPs for DeJounte and all then said no. I'm pretty much in agreement, 3 FRPs is fine, just don't add McDaniels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1pEwjUptc8

Personally I think that is just way to much. That means the wolves can't trade a 1st for 7 years. I think Murray is better then Dlo but Murray is a borderline all star. He might never make another all star game. He can also leave in 2 years.

Murray is an upgrade but I don't think he puts the wolves in the title picture. If we trade 3 1st round picks I want someone better than Murray

Also, if the Wolves got Murray this year, I think they could still add a max free agent next year and have an awesome core moving forward, if Lore/A Rod are ok with paying some luxury tax.

I'd trade 3 Kesslers for Murray. No hesitation. Wolves with their current players will never be in title contention, at least, with Murray they'd have some chance. DLO is not the answer and the Wolves will have a tough time getting out of the first round with DLO as the point guard. He can be exploited in the playoffs by good teams. What is your solution at point guard?

It's not the players the wolves would draft at those positions it's the point of the wolves would not be able to trade a 1st round pick for 7 years if they make that trade. Any big name player that comes around the wolves are just automatically out of it because of this trade. Like I would be saying this also if Beasley and 3 FRP for Murray was available also instead of Dlo.

We lose so much roster flexibility going forward to add a player that is a borderline all star. Like Murray is like the 40th best player in the NBA and Murray can just walk in 2 years.

Like I would do Murray for Dlo or Beasley, Kessler, Moore and next year 1st in a heart beat it's the flexibility being unable to trade future 1sts that is the killer for me.

If you sub Dlo for Murray, where do you think the wolves stack up in the West next year? I would say maybe 4th or 5th.
Murray is a needle mover but he doesn't put us in legit title contention to lose roster flexibility for 7 years

Murray puts the Wolves in the mix for the 3rd seed behind Warriors and Clippers. Without Murray, the Wolves are 7th or 8th seed. Why is Atlanta so eager to consummate a deal on essentially the same terms, Gallo and three FRPs? They are kind of like Wolves with a few good pieces but not enough to be a legit contender. I think they think Murray gives them a chance to take them to next level. Supposedly, Spurs are looking to tank for Wembayana and want to collect assets for a future run. Supposedly, its up to Pop whether to embrace a full rebuild or not.

One small, but not insignificant, difference... Atlanta has a 1st rd. pick coming to them from Atlanta either next year or the following year.

Mitch and Murray have sent me on a mission of mercy to point out, that though it is true that ATL does have picks coming from ATL, you probably meant Charlotte.

Anytime someone starts telling me how rich they are going to be from their big commissions from selling lots-and-lots, I always tell them "Go watch Glenngary Glenross, because if you aren't careful and diligent, that's how your life could end up".

Atlanta... Charlotte... Minneapolis. All the same!

I thought that the Hawks had found a loophole where they trade a 1st round pick to themselves.

Nah. Ted Stepien tried that and failed and ended up with Plan B that didn't work out so well.

"Interestingly, an insider close to the situation says that the Spurs have multiple teams making a strong push for Murray besides the Hawks. One Eastern Conference team, he says, is offering three first round draft picks and a desirable young player in a proposed swap. He also stated that the Minnesota Timberwolves have expressed serious interest in Murray."
Source: Quinn Allen @ Clutch Points

If true that an Eastern Conference team is offering three first-round picks and a desirable young player, the equivalent offer from the Wolves would be three future 1st rounders and McDaniels. I've love to get Murray, but that's too steep a price to pay in my view.

Any idea who that Eastern Conference team might be? You'd think the Knicks might be that team, but they seem narrowly focused on signing Brunson. If it is the Knicks, who might that "desirably young player" be? I'd guess that the team they're referring to is the Wizards. They really want to maximize the opportunity with Beal and they have several young players who would be considered reliable -- e.g., Advija, Hachimura, Gafford and Kuzma. If I were betting, I'd put my money on the Wizards ending up with Murray. I think the Hawks are the second most likely team to get him.

But I wouldn't' be shocked if the Wolves ended up getting Murray. I don't think they'd give up McDaniels though. Beasley, Naz Reid and three 1st-round picks might be enough.

What did the Bucks give up to get Holiday again?

Bucks were also going for broke whereas we are still puppies when it comes to playoff experience.

Q-was-here wrote:What did the Bucks give up to get Holiday again?

Bucks were also going for broke whereas we are still puppies when it comes to playoff experience.

I believe the Bucks traded Bledsoe, George Hill and the following picks:

2020 1st (via IND)
2024 right to swap
2025 1st unprotected
2026 right to swap
2027 1st unprotected

If this is the sort of price the Wolves would have to pay for Murray, then consider me uninterested.

The Bucks were feeling pretty desperate at the time because Giannis was deciding whether to test the market and he would have been one of the most coveted free agents in NBA history. The Bucks felt they needed to make a major move to lock up Giannis. Fortunately, the Wolves aren't in that situation. Our most talented player, Edwards, is still in the middle of his rookie-scale deal. Our beset and second most talented player, KAT, isn't about to become a free agent and reliable sources like Jon K have reported that he's likely to sign a super-max extra.

I'd love to swap out DLO for Murray and I'd be willing to give up other valuable assets to make that happen. But if the prices is a the Jrue Holiday level, then count me out.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:What did the Bucks give up to get Holiday again?

Bucks were also going for broke whereas we are still puppies when it comes to playoff experience.

I believe the Bucks traded Bledsoe, George Hill and the following picks:

2020 1st (via IND)
2024 right to swap
2025 1st unprotected
2026 right to swap
2027 1st unprotected

If this is the sort of price the Wolves would have to pay for Murray, then consider me uninterested.

The Bucks were feeling pretty desperate at the time because Giannis was deciding whether to test the market and he would have been one of the most coveted free agents in NBA history. The Bucks felt they needed to make a major move to lock up Giannis. Fortunately, the Wolves aren't in that situation. Our most talented player, Edwards, is still in the middle of his rookie-scale deal. Our beset and second most talented player, KAT, isn't about to become a free agent and reliable sources like Jon K have reported that he's likely to sign a super-max extra.

I'd love to swap out DLO for Murray and I'd be willing to give up other valuable assets to make that happen. But if the prices is a the Jrue Holiday level, then count me out.

To add: NO was banking on Giannis leaving so those picks were appealing to them.


If nobody wants to make the deal to get Murray, I respect it. That's an all-in move. But this is why I wanted the team to address PG in the draft, because a) it is slim pickings after this and b) it feels more inevitable that we keep D'Lo beyond this year which is not a good position for this team to be in.

I'll say this much: I don't think a better PG will become available at a cheaper price. The players we have outside of McDaniels are salary filler. Our picks are valuable because everyone believes this team will figure out a way to screw this up.

- A package of three first-round picks is appealing to most teams regardless of the circumstances. I also don't think New Orleans was "banking" on Giannis Antetokounmpo leaving Milwaukee, necessarily. It was obviously part of the equation, but the Bucks were adding Jrue Holiday to Giannis and Khris Middleton. Those picks were always more likely to be late firsts than lottery picks.

- Trading for Dejounte Murray certainly feels like an all-in type move and you're not getting back an elite player. You're getting a positional upgrade at point guard, but not one that launches the team into a contender. Not to mention, Murray has his own durability and efficiency concerns. I'll add that the difference in team wins with Murray on the roster and D'Angelo Russell on the roster is likely insignificant -- we're talking 2-3 more wins with Murray, potentially. Is that worth trading future resources away? Is the juice worth the squeeze?

- Aside from Murray, I don't see a better point guard than Russell available for the foreseeable future with Fred VanVleet as perhaps the only exception, and even his availability is in question because he'll likely end up re-signing with Toronto in a year. Either Minnesota bites the bullet and overpays for a marginal upgrade, they re-sign Russell, or they accept that they'll be significantly downgrading at the position by relying on youth or a less productive veteran replacement. Those are not ideal options.