longstrangetrip wrote:It looks to me like the board is about 80-20 against the deal...I'm only seeing Tim. Doper and me on board with it, and not as passionately as the objectors. Did I miss any other proponents of this deal?
I'm generally on board. As I have said before, I see this deal more about subtraction than addition. I have been consistent from the start in saying that Thad isn't my idea of a prototypical PF...well, not even a halfway decent one. I value rebounding and defense first in a PF, with scoring ranking behind those attributes. And we were never going to get defense or rebounding from Thad. It's odd to say that we have significantly upgraded rebounding and defense by swapping a 26 year old for a 38 year old, but we have...that's about all you need to know about Thad Young. He's a likable guy so I wish him luck in Brooklyn, but if he plays significant minutes for the Nets, I expect their winning percentage to be about the same that Thad has put up in his career to date.
The only reason I'm not completely on board with this deal is my personal dislike for Garnett...it rivals cool's. While I cheered for him and admired the intensity of his game while he was here, I often had to do it while plugging my nose...just knew a little too much about him. It's kind of sad that the two greatest players in Wolves history also happened to be the two I detested the most. Why am I willing to take Garnett back, when I wouldn't be so pleased with taking Love back? Easy...Garnett makes his teams better, while Love (perhaps like Thad) does not.
The biggest downside for me about this deal is that tickets on the street just got much more expensive...
Camden wrote:Flip's been fleeced in every trade he's done since the Love deal.
Brewer - Daniels and a 2nd
Williams - Neal and a 2nd
Future 1st - Payne
Young - Garnett
What the fuck are we doing?
Still have hope on the Payne deal, but see what you mean.
I don't. Brewer, Williams and Young aren't exactly 3/4 of the NBA Mt. Rushmore...you can't expect to get much back for them unless you are ridiculously overvaluing them. Addition by subtraction, my friends.
Camden wrote:Flip's been fleeced in every trade he's done since the Love deal.
Brewer - Daniels and a 2nd
Williams - Neal and a 2nd
Future 1st - Payne
Young - Garnett
What the fuck are we doing?
I don't understand what the plan is. You can't say they are in full rebuild mode with the moves they've made, yet they have only 10 wins. Outside of next years lottery pick, they don't really have a bunch of picks compared to other rebuilding teams, and the players they have now aren't really worth anything. Getting Wiggins is great, but as the Wolves have shown time and time again, they suck ass at surrounding a superstar.
I'm confused why we couldn't win more than 10 games with future HOFers Brewer, Williams and Young logging large minutes. Must have been bad luck...
longstrangetrip wrote:It looks to me like the board is about 80-20 against the deal...I'm only seeing Tim. Doper and me on board with it, and not as passionately as the objectors. Did I miss any other proponents of this deal?
I'm generally on board. As I have said before, I see this deal more about subtraction than addition. I have been consistent from the start in saying that Thad isn't my idea of a prototypical PF...well, not even a halfway decent one. I value rebounding and defense first in a PF, with scoring ranking behind those attributes. And we were never going to get defense or rebounding from Thad. It's odd to say that we have significantly upgraded rebounding and defense by swapping a 26 year old for a 38 year old, but we have...that's about all you need to know about Thad Young. He's a likable guy so I wish him luck in Brooklyn, but if he plays significant minutes for the Nets, I expect their winning percentage to be about the same that Thad has put up in his career to date.
The only reason I'm not completely on board with this deal is my personal dislike for Garnett...it rivals cool's. While I cheered for him and admired the intensity of his game while he was here, I often had to do it while plugging my nose...just knew a little too much about him. It's kind of sad that the two greatest players in Wolves history also happened to be the two I detested the most. Why am I willing to take Garnett back, when I wouldn't be so pleased with taking Love back? Easy...Garnett makes his teams better, while Love (perhaps like Thad) does not.
The biggest downside for me about this deal is that tickets on the street just got much more expensive...
I think most are too young to remember what having mentorship and real veteran leadership did for KG's game in his first few years or they just hate KG as a person (which is understandable Cool and LST). For instance, just look at how Magic talks about Kareem. Many superstars have had real veteran leadership around them in their initial success. I think this is a net plus for us.
Camden wrote:Flip's been fleeced in every trade he's done since the Love deal.
Brewer - Daniels and a 2nd
Williams - Neal and a 2nd
Future 1st - Payne
Young - Garnett
What the fuck are we doing?
Still have hope on the Payne deal, but see what you mean.
I don't. Brewer, Williams and Young aren't exactly 3/4 of the NBA Mt. Rushmore...you can't expect to get much back for them unless you are ridiculously overvaluing them. Addition by subtraction, my friends.
longstrangetrip wrote:It looks to me like the board is about 80-20 against the deal...I'm only seeing Tim. Doper and me on board with it, and not as passionately as the objectors. Did I miss any other proponents of this deal?
I'm generally on board. As I have said before, I see this deal more about subtraction than addition. I have been consistent from the start in saying that Thad isn't my idea of a prototypical PF...well, not even a halfway decent one. I value rebounding and defense first in a PF, with scoring ranking behind those attributes. And we were never going to get defense or rebounding from Thad. It's odd to say that we have significantly upgraded rebounding and defense by swapping a 26 year old for a 38 year old, but we have...that's about all you need to know about Thad Young. He's a likable guy so I wish him luck in Brooklyn, but if he plays significant minutes for the Nets, I expect their winning percentage to be about the same that Thad has put up in his career to date.
The only reason I'm not completely on board with this deal is my personal dislike for Garnett...it rivals cool's. While I cheered for him and admired the intensity of his game while he was here, I often had to do it while plugging my nose...just knew a little too much about him. It's kind of sad that the two greatest players in Wolves history also happened to be the two I detested the most. Why am I willing to take Garnett back, when I wouldn't be so pleased with taking Love back? Easy...Garnett makes his teams better, while Love (perhaps like Thad) does not.
The biggest downside for me about this deal is that tickets on the street just got much more expensive...
I think most are too young to remember what having mentorship and real veteran leadership did for KG's game in his first few years or they just hate KG as a person (which is understandable Cool and LST). For instance, just look at how Magic talks about Kareem. Many superstars have had real veteran leadership around them in their initial success. I think this is a net plus for us.
KG was good because he was talented, not because he was mentored properly
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Just can't believe that this is the only deal we did today. It's pure comedy.
Flip is investing in mentorship. He is going to draft another big likely and wants KG to be what McHale was for him. A skilled big with an array of moves that will pass that on. I understand your aversion to KGs antics. But if he took that teaching role seriously, it will be an asset.
10 - 20 years ago, I bet there were a lot of "But McHale will be a great teacher for the big guys on the block."
Either you have the skill and desire or you don't. A guy twice their age barking at them isn't going to make a dent with a lot of millionaires just out of their teenage years.
McHale was great for KG's game. Skill and desire are absolutely factors, but to ignore mentorship and teaching is insane. You saw it in KG's game, after working with McHale he started adding Mchale's drop-step and up and under moves. Great footwork and defensive positioning for a big takes practice and teaching. But more generally, everyone great at anything had a mentor and a teacher. Your statement is far too pessimistic. These teenage millionaires may presumably want to become teenage billionaires no?
Sean Rooks
Andrew Lang
Tom Hammnonds
Cherokee Parks
Dean Garrett
Rasho
Bill Curley
Andrae Patterson
Marc Jackson
Joe Smith
Ervin Johnson
Mark Madsen
Oliver Miller
Olowakandi
John Thomas
Tskitskiviski
Mark Blount
Al Jefferson
Kevin Garnett
Was McHale worthless as a mentor? No. But we read SO MUCH about how important his mentorship was going to be. It makes for a great narrative... even if it's not much more than fluff.
Talent and desire are much, much, much more important. Do you really think Garnett wasn't a HOF player with/without McHale? Do you think Jefferson only becomes a 20/10 guy if he teams with McHale?
longstrangetrip wrote:It looks to me like the board is about 80-20 against the deal...I'm only seeing Tim. Doper and me on board with it, and not as passionately as the objectors. Did I miss any other proponents of this deal?
I'm generally on board. As I have said before, I see this deal more about subtraction than addition. I have been consistent from the start in saying that Thad isn't my idea of a prototypical PF...well, not even a halfway decent one. I value rebounding and defense first in a PF, with scoring ranking behind those attributes. And we were never going to get defense or rebounding from Thad. It's odd to say that we have significantly upgraded rebounding and defense by swapping a 26 year old for a 38 year old, but we have...that's about all you need to know about Thad Young. He's a likable guy so I wish him luck in Brooklyn, but if he plays significant minutes for the Nets, I expect their winning percentage to be about the same that Thad has put up in his career to date.
The only reason I'm not completely on board with this deal is my personal dislike for Garnett...it rivals cool's. While I cheered for him and admired the intensity of his game while he was here, I often had to do it while plugging my nose...just knew a little too much about him. It's kind of sad that the two greatest players in Wolves history also happened to be the two I detested the most. Why am I willing to take Garnett back, when I wouldn't be so pleased with taking Love back? Easy...Garnett makes his teams better, while Love (perhaps like Thad) does not.
The biggest downside for me about this deal is that tickets on the street just got much more expensive...
That KG died about 3 years ago
And yet... a dead KG still grabs more than twice as many rebounds per 36 as a live Thad!
longstrangetrip wrote:It looks to me like the board is about 80-20 against the deal...I'm only seeing Tim. Doper and me on board with it, and not as passionately as the objectors. Did I miss any other proponents of this deal?
I'm generally on board. As I have said before, I see this deal more about subtraction than addition. I have been consistent from the start in saying that Thad isn't my idea of a prototypical PF...well, not even a halfway decent one. I value rebounding and defense first in a PF, with scoring ranking behind those attributes. And we were never going to get defense or rebounding from Thad. It's odd to say that we have significantly upgraded rebounding and defense by swapping a 26 year old for a 38 year old, but we have...that's about all you need to know about Thad Young. He's a likable guy so I wish him luck in Brooklyn, but if he plays significant minutes for the Nets, I expect their winning percentage to be about the same that Thad has put up in his career to date.
The only reason I'm not completely on board with this deal is my personal dislike for Garnett...it rivals cool's. While I cheered for him and admired the intensity of his game while he was here, I often had to do it while plugging my nose...just knew a little too much about him. It's kind of sad that the two greatest players in Wolves history also happened to be the two I detested the most. Why am I willing to take Garnett back, when I wouldn't be so pleased with taking Love back? Easy...Garnett makes his teams better, while Love (perhaps like Thad) does not.
The biggest downside for me about this deal is that tickets on the street just got much more expensive...
I think most are too young to remember what having mentorship and real veteran leadership did for KG's game in his first few years or they just hate KG as a person (which is understandable Cool and LST). For instance, just look at how Magic talks about Kareem. Many superstars have had real veteran leadership around them in their initial success. I think this is a net plus for us.
KG was good because he was talented, not because he was mentored properly
This is so hilarious. Talent only gets you so far. This is like saying coaches, systems don't matter. The most talented team doesn't always win. Anyone who plays sports knows this. Talent is good, but talent with proper instruction is great.
longstrangetrip wrote:It looks to me like the board is about 80-20 against the deal...I'm only seeing Tim. Doper and me on board with it, and not as passionately as the objectors. Did I miss any other proponents of this deal?
I'm generally on board. As I have said before, I see this deal more about subtraction than addition. I have been consistent from the start in saying that Thad isn't my idea of a prototypical PF...well, not even a halfway decent one. I value rebounding and defense first in a PF, with scoring ranking behind those attributes. And we were never going to get defense or rebounding from Thad. It's odd to say that we have significantly upgraded rebounding and defense by swapping a 26 year old for a 38 year old, but we have...that's about all you need to know about Thad Young. He's a likable guy so I wish him luck in Brooklyn, but if he plays significant minutes for the Nets, I expect their winning percentage to be about the same that Thad has put up in his career to date.
The only reason I'm not completely on board with this deal is my personal dislike for Garnett...it rivals cool's. While I cheered for him and admired the intensity of his game while he was here, I often had to do it while plugging my nose...just knew a little too much about him. It's kind of sad that the two greatest players in Wolves history also happened to be the two I detested the most. Why am I willing to take Garnett back, when I wouldn't be so pleased with taking Love back? Easy...Garnett makes his teams better, while Love (perhaps like Thad) does not.
The biggest downside for me about this deal is that tickets on the street just got much more expensive...
I think most are too young to remember what having mentorship and real veteran leadership did for KG's game in his first few years or they just hate KG as a person (which is understandable Cool and LST). For instance, just look at how Magic talks about Kareem. Many superstars have had real veteran leadership around them in their initial success. I think this is a net plus for us.
It really depends. People respond differently. Some need a kick in the ass and someone in their face whereas others perhaps respond better with a lighter, more reinforcing touch. I honestly don't know what KG's style is (I suspect he's more of the old-school type) and I don't know what works best with the young guys he's supposed to help.
