Trade deadline thread

[Lipoli390]

Rondo to the Clippers for Lou Williams and 2 2nds

Great for Atlanta. Not sure how this helps the Clippers.

Must think Playoff Rondo has one more run in him?

I have doubts, too.

I guess they REALLY wanted a vet PG. Lou Williams still is doing his thing. I was surprised at his assist numbers when I looked up his stats to make sure he hadn't like forgotten how to play basketball or something.

The good news is that it seems there is a market for vet PG that does stuff...it may need to be the right situation but this Rondo deal shows if the Wolves want to move a Rubio at some point they might get something moderately worthwhile back.

This tells me the Wolves could have swapped Rubio for Beverley, Patterson and Oturo along with either the two second-round picks Atlanta got or perhaps the one Detroit second-rounder. Ricky's at least as valuable as Rondo in my view. I would think that Lou Williams is far more valuable than the physically questionable Beverley for the Clippers down the stretch this season. Patterson and Oturo have no value to the Clippers this year and Patterson likely has no value beyond this year. So I suspect that Rosas simply didn't want to do that deal or anything similar. He went out of his way to acquire Ricky and, as is characteristic of Rosas, he didn't want to give him up.

I'm mainly happy that Rosas didn't do anything dumb. But I'd be disappointed if he could have done the Rubio deal with the Clippers but decided against it. I'd add it to the list of opportunity costs Rosas has incurred in his tenure. I just don't see a meaningful role for Ricky with DLO returning. Of course, I never saw a role for Ricky, which is why I didn't like the trade that brought him here in the first place. We need to given as much playing time as possible to DLO, Culver and Nowell. And I want to see more of McLaughlin.

[Monster]

Rondo to the Clippers for Lou Williams and 2 2nds

Great for Atlanta. Not sure how this helps the Clippers.

Must think Playoff Rondo has one more run in him?

I have doubts, too.

I guess they REALLY wanted a vet PG. Lou Williams still is doing his thing. I was surprised at his assist numbers when I looked up his stats to make sure he hadn't like forgotten how to play basketball or something.

The good news is that it seems there is a market for vet PG that does stuff...it may need to be the right situation but this Rondo deal shows if the Wolves want to move a Rubio at some point they might get something moderately worthwhile back.

This tells me the Wolves could have swapped Rubio for Beverley, Patterson and Oturo along with either the two second-round picks Atlanta got or perhaps the one Detroit second-rounder. Ricky's at least as valuable as Rondo in my view. I would think that Lou Williams is far more valuable than the physically questionable Beverley for the Clippers down the stretch this season. Patterson and Oturo have no value to the Clippers this year and Patterson likely has no value beyond this year. So I suspect that Rosas simply didn't want to do that deal or anything similar. He went out of his way to acquire Ricky and, as is characteristic of Rosas, he didn't want to give him up.

I'm mainly happy that Rosas didn't do anything dumb. But I'd be disappointed if he could have done the Rubio deal with the Clippers but decided against it. I'd add it to the list of opportunity costs Rosas has incurred in his tenure. I just don't see a meaningful role for Ricky with DLO returning. Of course, I never saw a role for Ricky, which is why I didn't like the trade that brought him here in the first place. We need to given as much playing time as possible to DLO, Culver and Nowell. And I want to see more of McLaughlin.

Eh unless you are dying to add Oturu or something I don't really care if he didn't do this deal. Something like this is probably going to be available a few months from now. If Rubio is reasonably invested in this season then might as well keep him instead of integrating some more guys in the middle of the season. Besides if we do this deal then Beverly is going to end up playing (until he gets hurt again) some too so that eats up some minutes for guys you and I want to see play. My issue with playing time is that it seemed like earlier in the year guys were given there spot and nobody else really got a chance. If someone plays kinda meh someone else should be getting a shot.

[KG4Ever]

Rondo to the Clippers for Lou Williams and 2 2nds

Great for Atlanta. Not sure how this helps the Clippers.

Must think Playoff Rondo has one more run in him?

I have doubts, too.

I guess they REALLY wanted a vet PG. Lou Williams still is doing his thing. I was surprised at his assist numbers when I looked up his stats to make sure he hadn't like forgotten how to play basketball or something.

The good news is that it seems there is a market for vet PG that does stuff...it may need to be the right situation but this Rondo deal shows if the Wolves want to move a Rubio at some point they might get something moderately worthwhile back.

This tells me the Wolves could have swapped Rubio for Beverley, Patterson and Oturo along with either the two second-round picks Atlanta got or perhaps the one Detroit second-rounder. Ricky's at least as valuable as Rondo in my view. I would think that Lou Williams is far more valuable than the physically questionable Beverley for the Clippers down the stretch this season. Patterson and Oturo have no value to the Clippers this year and Patterson likely has no value beyond this year. So I suspect that Rosas simply didn't want to do that deal or anything similar. He went out of his way to acquire Ricky and, as is characteristic of Rosas, he didn't want to give him up.

I'm mainly happy that Rosas didn't do anything dumb. But I'd be disappointed if he could have done the Rubio deal with the Clippers but decided against it. I'd add it to the list of opportunity costs Rosas has incurred in his tenure. I just don't see a meaningful role for Ricky with DLO returning. Of course, I never saw a role for Ricky, which is why I didn't like the trade that brought him here in the first place. We need to given as much playing time as possible to DLO, Culver and Nowell. And I want to see more of McLaughlin.

Rondo to the Clippers for Lou Williams and 2 2nds

Great for Atlanta. Not sure how this helps the Clippers.

Must think Playoff Rondo has one more run in him?

I have doubts, too.

I guess they REALLY wanted a vet PG. Lou Williams still is doing his thing. I was surprised at his assist numbers when I looked up his stats to make sure he hadn't like forgotten how to play basketball or something.

The good news is that it seems there is a market for vet PG that does stuff...it may need to be the right situation but this Rondo deal shows if the Wolves want to move a Rubio at some point they might get something moderately worthwhile back.

This tells me the Wolves could have swapped Rubio for Beverley, Patterson and Oturo along with either the two second-round picks Atlanta got or perhaps the one Detroit second-rounder. Ricky's at least as valuable as Rondo in my view. I would think that Lou Williams is far more valuable than the physically questionable Beverley for the Clippers down the stretch this season. Patterson and Oturo have no value to the Clippers this year and Patterson likely has no value beyond this year. So I suspect that Rosas simply didn't want to do that deal or anything similar. He went out of his way to acquire Ricky and, as is characteristic of Rosas, he didn't want to give him up.

I'm mainly happy that Rosas didn't do anything dumb. But I'd be disappointed if he could have done the Rubio deal with the Clippers but decided against it. I'd add it to the list of opportunity costs Rosas has incurred in his tenure. I just don't see a meaningful role for Ricky with DLO returning. Of course, I never saw a role for Ricky, which is why I didn't like the trade that brought him here in the first place. We need to given as much playing time as possible to DLO, Culver and Nowell. And I want to see more of McLaughlin.

Well, I guess being a mentor to Ant has value and he's a future trade chip. I like Rubio, but I don't mind if he's traded as I think he deserves better. I'm disappointed DLo wasn't traded, but Rosas will never admit his mistake after how much he paid for DLO. Wolves need to get lucky in lottery or there won't be much to look forward to next year for Wolves fans.

[KG4Ever]

I wish the NBA had relegation like the European soccer clubs. The Wolves might actually make the playoffs if they were a G League team.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm pretty sure that I'm alone again in this regard, but seeing the deals that went down at or before the deadline made me feel even better about the D'Angelo Russell - Andrew Wiggins trade. I know there are plenty here that see that deal very differently than me. I understand that and I'm not trying to change your mind. Most of us are firm in our positions while some are still in the "wait and see" category. But I look at what was dealt in trades for Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon, specifically, and I'm amazed that teams coughed up what they did. Not to mention, they weren't even shipping out a big contract with it, which is completely different from the situation Minnesota was working with.

A lot of my positive feelings on the Russell/Wiggins trade boil down to what level of play D-Lo brings when healthy and next to Karl-Anthony Towns, which we have yet to see in totality. Admittedly, he hasn't played like the player he's been the last two years, which is disappointing. I totally get that. But at his best he's better than both Vucevic and Gordon in my opinion given their positions and their importance. Teams paid a premium for those two -- more than what was spent on Russell, arguably, without having to unload a max contract in the process. Multiple picks with little protection and young talent for Vooch, and a future pick plus high-upside talent for AG? Those are overpays, folks.

If Minnesota gets the version of D-Lo that he's been in recent years, and they're able to get some luck on their side by retaining their own pick this off-season, I think the deal will look even better next year. So much so that national media will have to grade that trade very differently the third time around.

[Lipoli390]

I'm pretty sure that I'm alone again in this regard, but seeing the deals that went down at or before the deadline made me feel even better about the D'Angelo Russell - Andrew Wiggins trade. I know there are plenty here that see that deal very differently than me. I understand that and I'm not trying to change your mind. Most of us are firm in our positions while some are still in the "wait and see" category. But I look at what was dealt in trades for Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon, specifically, and I'm amazed that teams coughed up what they did. Not to mention, they weren't even shipping out a big contract with it, which is completely different from the situation Minnesota was working with.

A lot of my positive feelings on the Russell/Wiggins trade boil down to what level of play D-Lo brings when healthy and next to Karl-Anthony Towns, which we have yet to see in totality. Admittedly, he hasn't played like the player he's been the last two years, which is disappointing. I totally get that. But at his best he's better than both Vucevic and Gordon in my opinion given their positions and their importance. Teams paid a premium for those two -- more than what was spent on Russell, arguably, without having to unload a max contract in the process. Multiple picks with little protection and young talent for Vooch, and a future pick plus high-upside talent for AG? Those are overpays, folks.

If Minnesota gets the version of D-Lo that he's been in recent years, and they're able to get some luck on their side by retaining their own pick this off-season, I think the deal will look even better next year. So much so that national media will have to grade that trade very differently the third time around.

I disagree with your assessment of DLO and the DLO trade. But I understand and respect your reasoning. I just hope you turn out to be right!

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm pretty sure that I'm alone again in this regard, but seeing the deals that went down at or before the deadline made me feel even better about the D'Angelo Russell - Andrew Wiggins trade. I know there are plenty here that see that deal very differently than me. I understand that and I'm not trying to change your mind. Most of us are firm in our positions while some are still in the "wait and see" category. But I look at what was dealt in trades for Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon, specifically, and I'm amazed that teams coughed up what they did. Not to mention, they weren't even shipping out a big contract with it, which is completely different from the situation Minnesota was working with.

A lot of my positive feelings on the Russell/Wiggins trade boil down to what level of play D-Lo brings when healthy and next to Karl-Anthony Towns, which we have yet to see in totality. Admittedly, he hasn't played like the player he's been the last two years, which is disappointing. I totally get that. But at his best he's better than both Vucevic and Gordon in my opinion given their positions and their importance. Teams paid a premium for those two -- more than what was spent on Russell, arguably, without having to unload a max contract in the process. Multiple picks with little protection and young talent for Vooch, and a future pick plus high-upside talent for AG? Those are overpays, folks.

If Minnesota gets the version of D-Lo that he's been in recent years, and they're able to get some luck on their side by retaining their own pick this off-season, I think the deal will look even better next year. So much so that national media will have to grade that trade very differently the third time around.

I'd be interested in a more in-depth take on Vucevic. All the stats/metrics favor Vucevic by a significant margin over Russell.

For example, Russell has been higher than 1.8 in Win Shares one time in his career ('19). Vucevic's lowest Win Shares total is 1.8... as a rookie.

Russell has been above 1.4 VORP only one time ('19). Vucevic hasn't been below 1.8 VORP since 2014.

[FNG]

I'm pretty sure that I'm alone again in this regard, but seeing the deals that went down at or before the deadline made me feel even better about the D'Angelo Russell - Andrew Wiggins trade. I know there are plenty here that see that deal very differently than me. I understand that and I'm not trying to change your mind. Most of us are firm in our positions while some are still in the "wait and see" category. But I look at what was dealt in trades for Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon, specifically, and I'm amazed that teams coughed up what they did. Not to mention, they weren't even shipping out a big contract with it, which is completely different from the situation Minnesota was working with.

A lot of my positive feelings on the Russell/Wiggins trade boil down to what level of play D-Lo brings when healthy and next to Karl-Anthony Towns, which we have yet to see in totality. Admittedly, he hasn't played like the player he's been the last two years, which is disappointing. I totally get that. But at his best he's better than both Vucevic and Gordon in my opinion given their positions and their importance. Teams paid a premium for those two -- more than what was spent on Russell, arguably, without having to unload a max contract in the process. Multiple picks with little protection and young talent for Vooch, and a future pick plus high-upside talent for AG? Those are overpays, folks.

If Minnesota gets the version of D-Lo that he's been in recent years, and they're able to get some luck on their side by retaining their own pick this off-season, I think the deal will look even better next year. So much so that national media will have to grade that trade very differently the third time around.

I disagree with your assessment of DLO and the DLO trade. But I understand and respect your reasoning. I just hope you turn out to be right!

Lip, we all hope that Cam turns out to be right and that Rosas ends up being a genius on this deal, but most of us aren't very optimistic. I read Cam's first paragraph, but instead of reading it from a Wolves' perspective, I turned it around as if a Warriors' fan were writing it after reviewing yesterday's trades. I think it would read something like this:

Seeing yesterday's deals made me feel even better about last year's Wiggins/Russell trade. It's widely known that when Durant put a gun to his head, Bob Myers cleverly traded him for Russell...not intending to keep him but knowing he might be a good trade chip down the line. But even the most optimistic Warriors fan could have predicted the haul that DLO would bring back! No sane Warriors' fan could have ever thought that in addition to jettisoning DLO's bad contract, Myers would also bring back a serviceable player who has made close to 39% of his 3-point shots and played surprisingly good defense while Russell has spent a good portion of the season rehabbing a knee. But the best part? Miracle Myers added another protected lottery pick to the likely lottery pick we are already going to have in this loaded draft, plus another second rounder next year...and as futile as the Wolves are every season, that second rounder will be similar to a late first rounder! I have to admit I feel sorry for the Wolves the way Myers picked Rosas's pocket, but man is it great to be a Warriors' fan with all those picks coming up!

Looking at the deal from a Warriors perspective makes it quite easy for me to evaluate the deal in a more realistic manner. As Wolves fans the biggest asset we always have is "hope", and that's the only chance Rosas has of redeeming himself on this horrible deal. Despite my skepticism, hopefully the long-awaited KAT/DLO begins next week, and maybe the results will surprise me. Maybe...

[Monster]

I'm pretty sure that I'm alone again in this regard, but seeing the deals that went down at or before the deadline made me feel even better about the D'Angelo Russell - Andrew Wiggins trade. I know there are plenty here that see that deal very differently than me. I understand that and I'm not trying to change your mind. Most of us are firm in our positions while some are still in the "wait and see" category. But I look at what was dealt in trades for Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon, specifically, and I'm amazed that teams coughed up what they did. Not to mention, they weren't even shipping out a big contract with it, which is completely different from the situation Minnesota was working with.

A lot of my positive feelings on the Russell/Wiggins trade boil down to what level of play D-Lo brings when healthy and next to Karl-Anthony Towns, which we have yet to see in totality. Admittedly, he hasn't played like the player he's been the last two years, which is disappointing. I totally get that. But at his best he's better than both Vucevic and Gordon in my opinion given their positions and their importance. Teams paid a premium for those two -- more than what was spent on Russell, arguably, without having to unload a max contract in the process. Multiple picks with little protection and young talent for Vooch, and a future pick plus high-upside talent for AG? Those are overpays, folks.

If Minnesota gets the version of D-Lo that he's been in recent years, and they're able to get some luck on their side by retaining their own pick this off-season, I think the deal will look even better next year. So much so that national media will have to grade that trade very differently the third time around.

I'd be interested in a more in-depth take on Vucevic. All the stats/metrics favor Vucevic by a significant margin over Russell.

For example, Russell has been higher than 1.8 in Win Shares one time in his career ('19). Vucevic's lowest Win Shares total is 1.8... as a rookie.

Russell has been above 1.4 VORP only one time ('19). Vucevic hasn't been below 1.8 VORP since 2014.

I remember when Vuc was basically considered a poor defensive center that was sort of just a put up stats guy that wasn't really a winning player.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm pretty sure that I'm alone again in this regard, but seeing the deals that went down at or before the deadline made me feel even better about the D'Angelo Russell - Andrew Wiggins trade. I know there are plenty here that see that deal very differently than me. I understand that and I'm not trying to change your mind. Most of us are firm in our positions while some are still in the "wait and see" category. But I look at what was dealt in trades for Nikola Vucevic and Aaron Gordon, specifically, and I'm amazed that teams coughed up what they did. Not to mention, they weren't even shipping out a big contract with it, which is completely different from the situation Minnesota was working with.

A lot of my positive feelings on the Russell/Wiggins trade boil down to what level of play D-Lo brings when healthy and next to Karl-Anthony Towns, which we have yet to see in totality. Admittedly, he hasn't played like the player he's been the last two years, which is disappointing. I totally get that. But at his best he's better than both Vucevic and Gordon in my opinion given their positions and their importance. Teams paid a premium for those two -- more than what was spent on Russell, arguably, without having to unload a max contract in the process. Multiple picks with little protection and young talent for Vooch, and a future pick plus high-upside talent for AG? Those are overpays, folks.

If Minnesota gets the version of D-Lo that he's been in recent years, and they're able to get some luck on their side by retaining their own pick this off-season, I think the deal will look even better next year. So much so that national media will have to grade that trade very differently the third time around.

I'd be interested in a more in-depth take on Vucevic. All the stats/metrics favor Vucevic by a significant margin over Russell.

For example, Russell has been higher than 1.8 in Win Shares one time in his career ('19). Vucevic's lowest Win Shares total is 1.8... as a rookie.

Russell has been above 1.4 VORP only one time ('19). Vucevic hasn't been below 1.8 VORP since 2014.

I remember when Vuc was basically considered a poor defensive center that was sort of just a put up stats guy that wasn't really a winning player.

Sure. I was going to make the comparison that Vucevic is a lot closer comparison to Towns than Russell. I don't think the comparisons stop at statistics though. Both have played for two mostly inept franchises.

Remember the photo where all of the Hennigan's regime's free agent targets were on a whiteboard behind them... including a potential trade involving one of the team's young core pieces? That was very Kahn-esque.