Minnesota Sports Forum

I like Collins but "for the love of god", no more first round picks please. We can't continue to over pay our players without being able to fill holes through the draft.

DLO needs to be moved at the same time. I know Cam likes him, and I get the need for a ball handler, but I think his leadership skills are non-existent and he is a weak defender. I could over look both of those if he was attacking the rim, but that isn't his game.

Abe actually hit on a thought of mine when he talked about zigging rather zagging (or something along those lines). We need to stop copying other teams that have the premium talent, and use a system that incorporates our strengths. If that means better D, or two bigs, so be it. That is the only way we can gain an advantage. Rosas/Finch need to design a system around our talent.

sjm34 wrote:I like Collins but "for the love of god", no more first round picks please. We can't continue to over pay our players without being able to fill holes through the draft.

DLO needs to be moved at the same time. I know Cam likes him, and I get the need for a ball handler, but I think his leadership skills are non-existent and he is a weak defender. I could over look both of those if he was attacking the rim, but that isn't his game.

Abe actually hit on a thought of mine when he talked about zigging rather zagging (or something along those lines). We need to stop copying other teams that have the premium talent, and use a system that incorporates our strengths. If that means better D, or two bigs, so be it. That is the only way we can gain an advantage. Rosas/Finch need to design a system around our talent.

My one counter is let's say we lose the pick this year the Wolves will have no legit way of making significant roster upgrades, so more then likely the Wolves will be a bottom 7 team again if their isn't significant improvement from Ant or Dlo returns to All Star form.

So assuming next year is a wasted year Kat will only have 2 years left, should the Wolves just punt on improving around Kat?

Is Collins better than Culver and Okogie?

PorkChop wrote:Is Collins better than Culver and Okogie?

Significantly, he averages 18 and 8 on very good shooting splits and had improved on the defensive side of the ball. Is he a max player probably not is he a 20 million a year player, yes

kekgeek1 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Is Collins better than Culver and Okogie?

Significantly, he averages 18 and 8 on very good shooting splits and had improved on the defensive side of the ball. Is he a max player probably not is he a 20 million a year player, yes

If he's significantly better than two first round busts than why wouldn't we want to take him on?

PorkChop wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Is Collins better than Culver and Okogie?

Significantly, he averages 18 and 8 on very good shooting splits and had improved on the defensive side of the ball. Is he a max player probably not is he a 20 million a year player, yes

If he's significantly better than two first round busts than why wouldn't we want to take him on?

Because we don't know what it would take to get him. Runors are we declined Collins for Beasley and a 1st. Then pay Collins the max when he isn't a max player. Collins will be hard to trade after next year so their will be a worry that its another contract they won't be able to move.

Let's say best case scenario the wolves trade Culver, Naz, Hernangomez and a 1st for Collins and Snell.

What is the ceiling of a core of Dlo/ant/beasley/ Collins/Kat.

The reason I would gamble is if the Wolves got lucky in the draft they would have 6 legit NBA players. With one last asset in Rubio expiring

sjm34 wrote:I like Collins but "for the love of god", no more first round picks please. We can't continue to over pay our players without being able to fill holes through the draft.

DLO needs to be moved at the same time. I know Cam likes him, and I get the need for a ball handler, but I think his leadership skills are non-existent and he is a weak defender. I could over look both of those if he was attacking the rim, but that isn't his game.

Abe actually hit on a thought of mine when he talked about zigging rather zagging (or something along those lines). We need to stop copying other teams that have the premium talent, and use a system that incorporates our strengths. If that means better D, or two bigs, so be it. That is the only way we can gain an advantage. Rosas/Finch need to design a system around our talent.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/gOkawaguYNiSI/200.gif

So if I'm following correctly... we can't risk losing more 1st rd. picks that could be used to grab a guy who would almost certainly never become as good of a player as John Collins?

As kekgeek addressed... what other ways can this team make a significant upgrade if not by bringing in significant talent? They are already without a draft pick. They are already up against the cap. Everything else aside, the Wolves being THIS bad without much flexibility might be the biggest mark on the Rosas Regime.

We're talking about Collins being a $20M guy who'll likely get paid about $25M - $30M almost begrudgingly. Fair enough. But this is in a league where Rubio makes $17M. G. Dieng makes $16M. Buddy Hield makes $22M. D. Russell makes $30M. Al Horford makes $27M. G. Hayward makes $30M. Et al.

It can be argued that John Collins is better than almost all of those guys. And it can be argued very successfully that John Collins has a MUCH higher upside than every one of those guys.

Again. I'm firmly in the camp that we shouldn't be reluctant to take a swing on a promising young player like Collins ONLY because we're already overpaying Russell. If it's an either/or thing... Get rid of the player who's not as good!

Or, try it with both of them. If it doesn't pan out... a rebuild is going to happen anyway. And the Wolves can dump Collins and Towns for more precious 1st rd picks than you can shake a stick at. And we can sit through another five years of the next great Promise of Hope in earnest... celebrating every nice spin move while ignoring every defensive lapse, missed assignment and woeful performance.

---------

Signing John Collins might not be the ultimate fix. It might be an overpay. BUT... this is where the Wolves are at right now. The entire franchise is banking on Anthony Edwards figuring things out because they're already without a top pick and cap space.

John Collins would arrive as the 2nd best player on the team. And I'm ok with that when it's not a .500 club with very little hope of becoming a .500 club next year without him. If Edwards pops... Collins becomes the team's 3rd best player and boom. Now there's something there. Or, Edwards pops, Russell or Beasley remain the team's 3rd best player and we wait a few years for timelines and stuff.

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

Furthermore, the Hawks haven't been overly thrilled with the offerings. For instance, the Dallas Mavericks proposed a package featuring sharpshooter Maxi Kleber, sources said.

Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/hoopla-with-haynes-aaron-gordon-wont-be-traded-to-rockets-kings-make-marvin-bagley-iii-available-171248310.html

Well, if you wondered what kind of offers the Hawks would realistically get for John Collins then here you go. Maxi Kleber, folks...

Also, the Kings have made Marvin Bagley III available and reportedly offered him to the Pistons for Saddiq Bey. Obviously, Detroit declined such an offer. How much interest should there be in the former top pick? Would a swap for Jarrett Culver be intriguing for both teams? Before the season I wouldn't have made that move, but now I would.

Culver for Bagley was my dream trade at the beginning of the year. Makes sense for both teams.

Just to follow up on this, Darren Wolfson said that he hasn't heard Marvin Bagley's name attached to the Wolves, for whatever that's worth.

Culver for anything. Literally any player.

Would be a good get for the Wolves.