Minnesota Sports Forum

kekgeek1 wrote:The whole team was shit tonight. Kat a little less but wouldn't say he was great.

Rubio terrible, Ant was unplayable, Culver doesn't look like an NBA player, Vandy is almost out of the rotation, Layman was bad, Okogie was meh, McDaniels is scaring me that he is just another Okogie or Culver dude can't shoot at all right now, Hernangomez was terrible, Nowell was OK.

This is about how I feel as well.

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The whole team was shit tonight. Kat a little less but wouldn't say he was great.

Rubio terrible, Ant was unplayable, Culver doesn't look like an NBA player, Vandy is almost out of the rotation, Layman was bad, Okogie was meh, McDaniels is scaring me that he is just another Okogie or Culver dude can't shoot at all right now, Hernangomez was terrible, Nowell was OK.

This is about how I feel as well.

How the team currently is the have an Above average Center, Rubio a league average starting PG, Ant will have a wide margin of outcomes game to game, vandy and Layman are probably the worst starters at their position in the NBA (not saying they can't play a role), then the bench is Nowell and Naz who can be above average but aren't consistent and 3 guys in Okogie, McDaniels and Culver who have legit defensive chops but can't shoot at the moment.

Without Dlo and Beasley this team does not have a ton of talent. They both should be back probably next week and they will increase this take ceilings but who knows if the pieces fit together.

This moment you can tell if the team is going to be competitive based on how Ant played because Ant is the only one who can legit move the needle if he is on. If he isn't the team is terrible because he takes up a lot of offensive possession and is developing a terrible habit of not getting back on D (it's really concerning)

11 years after Ricky was drafted we're still discussing what role he's played in losses. Can't wait for the day we credit him for wins that turn into playoff opportunities.

thedoper wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio killing us again. Horrible game from him.

I didn't watch the game, but 11 assists to one turnover, shot 40%, a tad below his season average and he was plus 5. Horrible? OK, can't wait to see his non-horrible games.

He was minus 5 at the end of the 3rd then came in and supported a 10-0 run in garbage time. In typical Rubio fashion he was very effective when it didnt matter. Thanks for not watching an presenting your box score insights.

How do you define garbage time, doper? I (and Breaking the Glass, by the way) defines it as the time after at least one of the coaches empties his bench and takes his starters out. You know that isn't what happened last night so let's keep it real here. Yes, we were down double digits in the 4th quarter when Finch put his starters back in, and they and Ricky mounted a comeback that brought us back within 4 at one point (and it would have been a 1-point deficit if KAT had drained the open three Ricky set him up with). The 4th quarter looked a lot like the Suns game last week, except in that game we were able to actually win after being down 15. Was it garbage time last night because we didn't end up winning, and not garbage time against Phoenix because the comeback resulted in a win? Come on!

Look, we all have players whose style we like and don't like, but this board becomes less inciteful when we let those prejudices totally color our objective viewing of the game. I will admit I don't appreciate DLO's playing style. I'm just not a fan of a PG who looks to score first and facilitate less...not my deal. And with deference to the PMP, I do think it's relevant that generally DLO's teams do better when he is off the court than when he is on (a fan can make up excuses for why this happens, but the numbers just don't lie here). But even in the midst of a forgettable season for DLO, there are times when he had a positive impact on a win or a close game, and I credited his scoring for the win in this forum. Not often, I'll admit. But let's not make shit up, like calling last night's 4th quarter comeback garbage time when it wasn't, just in order to advance our narrative. The OkC clearly didn't get the memo that it was garbage time, because SGA was at the free throw line with 26 seconds to play!

FNG wrote:

thedoper wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio killing us again. Horrible game from him.

I didn't watch the game, but 11 assists to one turnover, shot 40%, a tad below his season average and he was plus 5. Horrible? OK, can't wait to see his non-horrible games.

He was minus 5 at the end of the 3rd then came in and supported a 10-0 run in garbage time. In typical Rubio fashion he was very effective when it didnt matter. Thanks for not watching an presenting your box score insights.

How do you define garbage time, doper? I (and Breaking the Glass, by the way) defines it as the time after at least one of the coaches empties his bench and takes his starters out. You know that isn't what happened last night so let's keep it real here. Yes, we were down double digits in the 4th quarter when Finch put his starters back in, and they and Ricky mounted a comeback that brought us back within 4 at one point (and it would have been a 1-point deficit if KAT had drained the open three Ricky set him up with). The 4th quarter looked a lot like the Suns game last week, except in that game we were able to actually win after being down 15. Was it garbage time last night because we didn't end up winning, and not garbage time against Phoenix because the comeback resulted in a win? Come on!

Look, we all have players whose style we like and don't like, but this board becomes less inciteful when we let those prejudices totally color our objective viewing of the game. I will admit I don't appreciate DLO's playing style. I'm just not a fan of a PG who looks to score first and facilitate less...not my deal. And with deference to the PMP, I do think it's relevant that generally DLO's teams do better when he is off the court than when he is on (a fan can make up excuses for why this happens, but the numbers just don't lie here). But even in the midst of a forgettable season for DLO, there are times when he had a positive impact on a win or a close game, and I credited his scoring for the win in this forum. Not often, I'll admit. But let's not make shit up, like calling last night's 4th quarter comeback garbage time when it wasn't, just in order to advance our narrative. The OkC clearly didn't get the memo that it was garbage time, because SGA was at the free throw line with 26 seconds to play!

If you want to commend a player for getting us back to down 4 against a horrible, losing team that is up to you. I didn't use the "cleaning the glass" of garbage time. Thank you for pointing that out. Ricky still can't win or play winning basketball when it matters, last night continues to show that. Feel free to make excuses for him based on whatever statistical anomaly you think you are finding. He played better that total horseshit when we were down by 15. Yay Ricky, gold star.

thedoper wrote:

FNG wrote:

thedoper wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio killing us again. Horrible game from him.

I didn't watch the game, but 11 assists to one turnover, shot 40%, a tad below his season average and he was plus 5. Horrible? OK, can't wait to see his non-horrible games.

He was minus 5 at the end of the 3rd then came in and supported a 10-0 run in garbage time. In typical Rubio fashion he was very effective when it didnt matter. Thanks for not watching an presenting your box score insights.

How do you define garbage time, doper? I (and Breaking the Glass, by the way) defines it as the time after at least one of the coaches empties his bench and takes his starters out. You know that isn't what happened last night so let's keep it real here. Yes, we were down double digits in the 4th quarter when Finch put his starters back in, and they and Ricky mounted a comeback that brought us back within 4 at one point (and it would have been a 1-point deficit if KAT had drained the open three Ricky set him up with). The 4th quarter looked a lot like the Suns game last week, except in that game we were able to actually win after being down 15. Was it garbage time last night because we didn't end up winning, and not garbage time against Phoenix because the comeback resulted in a win? Come on!

Look, we all have players whose style we like and don't like, but this board becomes less inciteful when we let those prejudices totally color our objective viewing of the game. I will admit I don't appreciate DLO's playing style. I'm just not a fan of a PG who looks to score first and facilitate less...not my deal. And with deference to the PMP, I do think it's relevant that generally DLO's teams do better when he is off the court than when he is on (a fan can make up excuses for why this happens, but the numbers just don't lie here). But even in the midst of a forgettable season for DLO, there are times when he had a positive impact on a win or a close game, and I credited his scoring for the win in this forum. Not often, I'll admit. But let's not make shit up, like calling last night's 4th quarter comeback garbage time when it wasn't, just in order to advance our narrative. The OkC clearly didn't get the memo that it was garbage time, because SGA was at the free throw line with 26 seconds to play!

If you want to commend a player for getting us back to down 4 against a horrible, losing team that is up to you. I didn't use the "cleaning the glass" of garbage time. Thank you for pointing that out. Ricky still can't win or play winning basketball when it matters, last night continues to show that. Feel free to make excuses for him based on whatever statistical anomaly you think you are finding. He played better that total horseshit when we were down by 15. Yay Ricky, gold star.

Here's the rub though... you're definitely capable of praising players, and maybe even ripping other players, but you specifically cite only one player's faults repeatedly throughout this thread. "Horrible" and "Killing us" and "multiple mistakes in a row" while mocking his defense, et al.

And all that's fine. Because it very well may be warranted. But for a guy without a dog in this fight... it's VERY obvious that your personal opinion of Rubio seeped into your game commentary. As I noted, he wasn't the worst Timberwolves player. I don't think he was the best either... I don't know who was in a very bad loss.

But I do know Rubio with his ho-hum type of limited game did not cost the Wolves that game. Edwards with his inefficiency and lack of effort did not cost the Wolves that game. Towns with his 18 missed shots and mediocre effort did not cost the Wolves that game.

It was a collective effort. We all have a tendency to target our most hated players when that happens. It's just the nature of being a fan... and being on a message board. It's what drives conversation. I'm just saying that none of us are able to pull it off very well under the cloak of darkness. It's usually pretty obvious. And it's ok to acknowledge that you're as guilty of it as I am or the next guy is.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

FNG wrote:

thedoper wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

thedoper wrote:Rubio killing us again. Horrible game from him.

I didn't watch the game, but 11 assists to one turnover, shot 40%, a tad below his season average and he was plus 5. Horrible? OK, can't wait to see his non-horrible games.

He was minus 5 at the end of the 3rd then came in and supported a 10-0 run in garbage time. In typical Rubio fashion he was very effective when it didnt matter. Thanks for not watching an presenting your box score insights.

How do you define garbage time, doper? I (and Breaking the Glass, by the way) defines it as the time after at least one of the coaches empties his bench and takes his starters out. You know that isn't what happened last night so let's keep it real here. Yes, we were down double digits in the 4th quarter when Finch put his starters back in, and they and Ricky mounted a comeback that brought us back within 4 at one point (and it would have been a 1-point deficit if KAT had drained the open three Ricky set him up with). The 4th quarter looked a lot like the Suns game last week, except in that game we were able to actually win after being down 15. Was it garbage time last night because we didn't end up winning, and not garbage time against Phoenix because the comeback resulted in a win? Come on!

Look, we all have players whose style we like and don't like, but this board becomes less inciteful when we let those prejudices totally color our objective viewing of the game. I will admit I don't appreciate DLO's playing style. I'm just not a fan of a PG who looks to score first and facilitate less...not my deal. And with deference to the PMP, I do think it's relevant that generally DLO's teams do better when he is off the court than when he is on (a fan can make up excuses for why this happens, but the numbers just don't lie here). But even in the midst of a forgettable season for DLO, there are times when he had a positive impact on a win or a close game, and I credited his scoring for the win in this forum. Not often, I'll admit. But let's not make shit up, like calling last night's 4th quarter comeback garbage time when it wasn't, just in order to advance our narrative. The OkC clearly didn't get the memo that it was garbage time, because SGA was at the free throw line with 26 seconds to play!

If you want to commend a player for getting us back to down 4 against a horrible, losing team that is up to you. I didn't use the "cleaning the glass" of garbage time. Thank you for pointing that out. Ricky still can't win or play winning basketball when it matters, last night continues to show that. Feel free to make excuses for him based on whatever statistical anomaly you think you are finding. He played better that total horseshit when we were down by 15. Yay Ricky, gold star.

Here's the rub though... you're definitely capable of praising players, and maybe even ripping other players, but you specifically cite only one player's faults repeatedly throughout this thread. "Horrible" and "Killing us" and "multiple mistakes in a row" while mocking his defense, et al.

And all that's fine. Because it very well may be warranted. But for a guy without a dog in this fight... it's VERY obvious that your personal opinion of Rubio seeped into your game commentary. As I noted, he wasn't the worst Timberwolves player. I don't think he was the best either... I don't know who was in a very bad loss.

But I do know Rubio with his ho-hum type of limited game did not cost the Wolves that game. Edwards with his inefficiency and lack of effort did not cost the Wolves that game. Towns with his 18 missed shots and mediocre effort did not cost the Wolves that game.

It was a collective effort. We all have a tendency to target our most hated players when that happens. It's just the nature of being a fan... and being on a message board. It's what drives conversation. I'm just saying that none of us are able to pull it off very well under the cloak of darkness. It's usually pretty obvious. And it's ok to acknowledge that you're as guilty of it as I am or the next guy is.

Everyone else on the roster gets plenty of criticism for our awful state on this team. Yet somehow, throughout both tenures of playing here there is a consistent narrative that we lose in spite of Ricky's exemplary heart, intangibles, and D. I never said that anyone else isnt meriting criticism. I only correctly pointed out that Ricky played like dogshit, and is a serial loser. Plenty of other people correctly pointed out that Edwards played like shit and cant shoot. Others criticized KAT. No argument from me. Why am I being addressed for adding Ricky to the group?

I'm not saying Abe is included with what I'm about to say because I don't think he is, but there are definitely Wolves fans that reject criticisms of Ricky Rubio as he can basically do no wrong to this group. There's appreciating a player for what he is and what he isn't, and then there's falsely thinking he's beyond blame for anything. The latter is what gets old quickly and the Rubio stans are guilty of it.

As far as last night, Rubio was worse than his final numbers would indicate. This is where watching the game and including context into the discussion comes into play. He was constantly getting beat defensively and the offense that he's often credited with being the maestro of never got into a good rhythm. Was he the sole reason Minnesota lost? I'd argue that he wasn't and that it was indeed a collective effort, but Rubio should take his fair share of blame and I think that's what doper was getting at.

The narrative with Rubio has always been skewed. Rubio has now played twice as many minutes as DLo this year. We are 10-30 on track to compete for one of our worst records in franchise history. I dont think it unfathomable to infer that Rubio might not be a very good PG or a winner from our results this year.

Camden wrote:I'm not saying Abe is included with what I'm about to say because I don't think he is, but there are definitely Wolves fans that reject criticisms of Ricky Rubio as he can basically do no wrong to this group. There's appreciating a player for what he is and what he isn't, and then there's falsely thinking he's beyond blame for anything. The latter is what gets old quickly and the Rubio stans are guilty of it.

As far as last night, Rubio was worse than his final numbers would indicate. This is where watching the game and including context into the discussion comes into play. He was constantly getting beat defensively and the offense that he's often credited with being the maestro of never got into a good rhythm. Was he the sole reason Minnesota lost? I'd argue that he wasn't and that it was indeed a collective effort, but Rubio should take his fair share of blame and I think that's what doper was getting at.

I'm an equal opportunity ripper. I remember arguing with people here who ripped Kevin Love for a loss after something close to a 34/15/5 performance while praising Rubio's 7/4/4 game. The Rubio love goes back to his very first game in a Wolves uniform vs. Westbrook and the Thunder. I should find that thread for "fun" by the way.

It's just that post after post about Rubio sucking balls... with no real mention of anybody else sucking... seems a bit too obvious. Although there is a point to balancing out the criticism among several players if Rubio has been left unscathed for too long. Everybody deserved to be ripped for that performance.