Minnesota Sports Forum

Jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.

He had it in the offseason from what I remember because we talked about all year. We blamed his lack of a step and poor play at least partially on a Covid hangover.

Now he tested positive again during the season. No telling if he got a different milder strain or false positives or got the same thing again, who knows with this thing. But I believe it was twice months apart he tested positive.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.

He had it in the offseason from what I remember because we talked about all year. We blamed his lack of a step and poor play at least partially on a Covid hangover.

Now he tested positive again during the season. No telling if he got a different milder strain or false positives or got the same thing again, who knows with this thing. But I believe it was twice months apart he tested positive.

Someone please find a report or tweet that shows Ricky Rubio tested positive for COVID during the off-season. Please. I was able to find where he tested positive back in July before he made it to Orlando and then in January he missed time due to protocols after the Wolves season had already started. Find something -- anything -- that talks about Rubio having COVID before this season started.

The narrative has been there all season, but I need facts to base my takes off of. And the facts that I've compiled lead me to believe that this "Rubio was awful because of COVID" talking point is bullshit.

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.

He had it in the offseason from what I remember because we talked about all year. We blamed his lack of a step and poor play at least partially on a Covid hangover.

Now he tested positive again during the season. No telling if he got a different milder strain or false positives or got the same thing again, who knows with this thing. But I believe it was twice months apart he tested positive.

Someone please find a report or tweet that shows Ricky Rubio tested positive for COVID during the off-season. Please. I was able to find where he tested positive back in July before he made it to Orlando and then in January he missed time due to protocols after the Wolves season had already started. Find something -- anything -- that talks about Rubio having COVID before this season started.

The narrative has been there all season, but I need facts to base my takes off of. And the facts that I've compiled lead me to believe that this "Rubio was awful because of COVID" talking point is bullshit.

Wether his poor play was a Covid hangover or simply he was lazy and didn't work out. I don't think we'll find out. I can only say that what I saw the first portion of the year looked like a different player. He looked slow, even less lift in his legs on his shot and lethargic. I wonder what his weight was then versus now, he looks trimmer now to me.

Regarding Ricky and Covid:

What we know:
1) He reported last July that he had a positive test for Covid. He also reported that he had no symptoms.
2) His stats and performance in the early part of this season were far below his norm
3) He missed 10 days in January because of the league Covid protocol, but we don't know why. He may have had another positive test, or he may have merely had close contact with someone who did. He didn't say, and we don't know.
4) He said recently that he didn't feel like himself the first weeks of the season, and that recently he felt that he was back to normal physically
5) His stats since he returned to the starting lineup have been very good. As I mentioned earlier, he is one of only 5 PGs averaging over 10 PPG, 7 APG, and 37% 3-point shooting (along with Simmons, Paul, Lowry and Dame).

What we don't know:
1) While Ricky has reported that he was not himself physically in the early weeks, we don't know whether that was due to lingering Covid effects or that Ricky just got lazy in the offseason and showed up out of shape.

Now, I'm not a doctor and, to the best of my knowledge, I have not had Covid. So I have no personal expertise or experience in knowing the lingering effects of Covid. However I have read several reports by doctors and heard stories in the media and from friends (and even some stories about friends/relatives of posters here) that said the impact on lungs is devastating, and even that the effects can recur after the virus has cleared the system...maybe even for a lifetime. I also believe that Rubio is a gym rat and one of the hardest workers in the league...it would be out of character and unprecedented for him to show up out of shape. Doesn't mean he didn't this time, but while none of us really knows, it seems likely to me that Covid had something to do with his uncharacteristic futility the first few weeks.

But that's only one of three reasons I postulated for his stellar play since he regained his starting role. The other two were:

1) Unfamiliarity with and dislike of coming of the bench, after having been an effective starter his entire career and coming off arguably his best season.

2) Getting to know a new set of teammates, most of whom are quite inexperienced in the NBA. The entire team looked discombobulated in the early going, not just Ricky. Let's just say it wasn't very watchable basketball regardless of who was out there.

Whatever the true reason for his poor play, anyone of these three reasons seem quite valid to me. But what's more important is that he has totally turned around his season, and he says he is healthy and comfortable again in his customary role. Rubio is always going to be a polarizing figure because he is never going to be a great scorer...he knows his value is in making his team better by facilitating first and looking to score second. And even though I'm new on this board, I can tell there are some posters here who are constantly going to dwell on the negative when it comes to Ricky (and some of my friends outside this board) despite the fact that his teammates generally rave about him and his stats show that he consistently makes his team better (PMP alert). That's okay...it's an opinion board, and I too certainly have players I'm not too fond of because of their playing style.

But for the love of God, can't we just appreciate the extraordinary numbers he has put up since he returned to the starting lineup and appreciate how much more fun this team is to watch now?

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.

He had it in the offseason from what I remember because we talked about all year. We blamed his lack of a step and poor play at least partially on a Covid hangover.

Now he tested positive again during the season. No telling if he got a different milder strain or false positives or got the same thing again, who knows with this thing. But I believe it was twice months apart he tested positive.

Someone please find a report or tweet that shows Ricky Rubio tested positive for COVID during the off-season. Please. I was able to find where he tested positive back in July before he made it to Orlando and then in January he missed time due to protocols after the Wolves season had already started. Find something -- anything -- that talks about Rubio having COVID before this season started.

The narrative has been there all season, but I need facts to base my takes off of. And the facts that I've compiled lead me to believe that this "Rubio was awful because of COVID" talking point is bullshit.

Wether his poor play was a Covid hangover or simply he was lazy and didn't work out. I don't think we'll find out. I can only say that what I saw the first portion of the year looked like a different player. He looked slow, even less lift in his legs on his shot and lethargic. I wonder what his weight was then versus now, he looks trimmer now to me.

Absolutely right, Wolvesfan. Cam seems obsessed with why Ricky's play was so bad early in the season. I honestly don't think it matters because his play the past 6 weeks has been returned to the level of his play before the start of this season. There was an anomalous period of around 4-5 weeks at the beginning of this season when Ricky did not look anything like his former self. That has changed dramatically.

FNG wrote:Lip, I also think his huge drop off from his Phoenix play to his early season performance here was Covid related. I also might suggest that he is still suffering some of the residual effects you mention, and that may be why his minutes as a starter are more limited than usual...less than 28 per game. I think he is just rounding himself back into shape though, as indicated by Finch playing him 33 minutes last game.

Covid isn't the only reason though. His numbers as a starter and as a reserve are so starkly different, you have to factor that in. Plus, getting used to a bunch of largely inexperienced teammates is not an easy thing. He's now healthier, he's more used to the playing style of guys like Vando and Nowell, and he's starting...three reasons why he is playing at such a high level now compared to early in the season. Pretty easy to figure this one out!

I agree, FNG. At least some of Ricky's early struggles were likely attributable to his role coming off the bench instead of his more familiar role as a starter. As you pointed out, his stats tend to support that view. And of course, he was playing on a bad team with a below-average head coach. All that said, the bottom line, as you've pointed out, is that Ricky has been playing really well lately. My point was that Ricky's level of play the past 4-6 weeks should be the basis for determining what to do with him - whether to trade him and, if so, what value to expect in return, or whether to keep him and, if so, in what role (starter or bench).

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.

He had it in the offseason from what I remember because we talked about all year. We blamed his lack of a step and poor play at least partially on a Covid hangover.

Now he tested positive again during the season. No telling if he got a different milder strain or false positives or got the same thing again, who knows with this thing. But I believe it was twice months apart he tested positive.

Someone please find a report or tweet that shows Ricky Rubio tested positive for COVID during the off-season. Please. I was able to find where he tested positive back in July before he made it to Orlando and then in January he missed time due to protocols after the Wolves season had already started. Find something -- anything -- that talks about Rubio having COVID before this season started.

The narrative has been there all season, but I need facts to base my takes off of. And the facts that I've compiled lead me to believe that this "Rubio was awful because of COVID" talking point is bullshit.

Wether his poor play was a Covid hangover or simply he was lazy and didn't work out. I don't think we'll find out. I can only say that what I saw the first portion of the year looked like a different player. He looked slow, even less lift in his legs on his shot and lethargic. I wonder what his weight was then versus now, he looks trimmer now to me.

Absolutely right, Wolvesfan. Cam seems obsessed with why Ricky's play was so bad early in the season. I honestly don't think it matters because his play the past 6 weeks has been returned to the level of his play before the start of this season. There was an anomalous period of around 4-5 weeks at the beginning of this season when Ricky did not look anything like his former self. That has changed dramatically.

Wrong again my friend. I'm being a realist. Ricky Rubio showed up this season out of shape and his play was awful for the first half of the season. Those are the facts. Now, he wasn't the only one around the league that showed up in poor basketball shape -- some due to geographical shutdowns -- so I'm not crucifying him for that necessarily. But it's a fabrication to write off his poor play as a result of testing positive for COVID... four to five months prior to the season's start in which he had already performed at a high level in the bubble directly after his test. What sense does that make? Very little.

It's the incessant irrational excuses that bother me and force me to chime in, especially when this board is usually right on the money in holding other players, coaches, and executives accountable. Rubio was sucking and now he's playing well. He's clearly turning around his season. All good things. But let's just be real about the situation.

Camden wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Let's backtrack here for a second. Are we talking about his positive COVID test from last summer with the Phoenix Suns? I'd assume so because I can't find anything prior to this season's start regarding Ricky Rubio and COVID. Rubio tested positive resulting in him being late to joining the Suns in the bubble in Orlando. After two negative tests he was cleared and went on to average 12.9 PPG (43.2 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 95.5 FT%), 7.9 APG, 4.9 RPG, and 0.8 SPG in 26.8 MPG in those eight games where Phoenix went undefeated. Rubio was great in the bubble directly after having COVID. He said he had no symptoms and just needed to get back into basketball shape after being off for as long as they were. But other than that there were no issues.

So, as politely as I can say this, what the fuck are we talking about here? You're telling me that Rubio has COVID and then plays great in basically a playoff stretch for Phoenix, then has a short off-season, COVID decides that it wants to affect Rubio after he's traded to Minnesota, and that's the cause of his horrendous play? Let's call a spade a spade. Rubio came into the season in poor physical shape and played awful for about two months. That responsibility falls on his shoulders -- not COVID's. Some accountability would be nice. And now he's playing much better, thankfully. This is the reality.

Honestly I had no idea his Covid sickness was from before the bubble. I thought it was from the off-season. I will retract what I've said previously about Rubio and covid knowing this now.

He had it in the offseason from what I remember because we talked about all year. We blamed his lack of a step and poor play at least partially on a Covid hangover.

Now he tested positive again during the season. No telling if he got a different milder strain or false positives or got the same thing again, who knows with this thing. But I believe it was twice months apart he tested positive.

Someone please find a report or tweet that shows Ricky Rubio tested positive for COVID during the off-season. Please. I was able to find where he tested positive back in July before he made it to Orlando and then in January he missed time due to protocols after the Wolves season had already started. Find something -- anything -- that talks about Rubio having COVID before this season started.

The narrative has been there all season, but I need facts to base my takes off of. And the facts that I've compiled lead me to believe that this "Rubio was awful because of COVID" talking point is bullshit.

Wether his poor play was a Covid hangover or simply he was lazy and didn't work out. I don't think we'll find out. I can only say that what I saw the first portion of the year looked like a different player. He looked slow, even less lift in his legs on his shot and lethargic. I wonder what his weight was then versus now, he looks trimmer now to me.

Absolutely right, Wolvesfan. Cam seems obsessed with why Ricky's play was so bad early in the season. I honestly don't think it matters because his play the past 6 weeks has been returned to the level of his play before the start of this season. There was an anomalous period of around 4-5 weeks at the beginning of this season when Ricky did not look anything like his former self. That has changed dramatically.

Wrong again my friend. I'm being a realist. Ricky Rubio showed up this season out of shape and his play was awful for the first half of the season. Those are the facts. Now, he wasn't the only one around the league that showed up in poor basketball shape -- some due to geographical shutdowns -- so I'm not crucifying him for that necessarily. But it's a fabrication to write off his poor play as a result of testing positive for COVID... four to five months prior to the season's start in which he had already performed at a high level in the bubble directly after his test. What sense does that make? Very little.

It's the incessant irrational excuses that bother me and force me to chime in, especially when this board is usually right on the money in holding other players, coaches, and executives accountable. Rubio was sucking and now he's playing well. He's clearly turning around his season. All good things. But let's just be real about the situation.

OK, Cam. That's the conclusion you've reached. I think Covid was part of the issue, along with other factors. I have a friend in Florida who said she still has episodes of brain fog after what she described as a mild case of Covid back in mid-November. She said it's occurring less frequently when I last talked to her a week ago. She said she was really tired and lacked energy for a couple months after she tested negative. I can't dismiss the possibility that Ricky simply didn't work hard enough before the season to get or stay in shape. But then again, residual effects of Covid might has substantially reduced the time frame for the intense workouts needed to get back in shape. Or perhaps for the first time in his career he just got lazy and didn't put in the work he had always put in prior to all his other seasons.

None of us will even know exactly what Ricky was so bad at the beginning of this season - although you appear to know. All I know is that Ricky's been playing well for the past 6 weeks, especially the last few weeks. And that's all that should matter right now when it comes to decisions on whether to trade Ricky or role he should play if he stays. What Ricky did in January on a terrible Wolves team with a bad head coach just doesn't matter to me. It apparently matters a lot to you - to the point where you're livid over explanations for Ricky's poor play that don't align with your own assessment. But that's OK.

Lip, you're not quite paying attention to the fact that Ricky Rubio had already played basketball after testing positive for COVID and he performed well. Those eight games in the bubble happened. Rubio was fine physically. It would be completely out of the ordinary if he were to begin feeling the effects of COVID months later and that led to his poor play in a Wolves uniform when he showed zero signs of it being a detriment to him directly after. That just doesn't make any sense.

And no, I'm not livid. I'm annoyed. There's a significant difference. And by the way you responded I can tell that you're annoyed by my valid counterpoints. The good thing is that Rubio has been playing better as of late and I've already acknowledged that point multiple times. Hopefully that level of play continues so Minnesota can trade him for something of positive value.

Let me ask a question about this debate, and I'll be blunt. Why is the reason for Ricky's malaise at the beginning of the season important now?