Minnesota Sports Forum

Would be interested in your thoughts on Justin Amash, Abe. He seems like an independent thinker and a guy willing to blaze his own trail without falling into one of the two entrenched tribes that are constantly at war with each other.

(BTW, I agree with you....there are cable networks and pundit-personalities out there that profit purely from the tribalism. Being at war with each other is their business model).

Dunno. I'll check him out.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:Sure, whatever the reason for her platform, it doesn't change that the words coming out of her mouth illustrate the viewpoints of many, including myself.

That's my point.

She's parroting talking points (almost always) about what one side thinks but only for her own financial gain. Use yourself as the mouthpiece if that's what you want to do. It's a heckuva lot more genuine.

All too often, we seek out people who think like us. It's how politics and social media work. Personally, I don't want to be grouped with some of these slimeballs, including the Candace Owens types.

And I tune them out the moment I see them. The inherent disingenuous to their personas skews any message they have.

Not unlike every one that works for espn.

Guys I really need some support on this question I'm about to ask. Let me first say that it is entirely possible I'm completely missing something here. But this is absolutely driving me crazy. It has to do with the Drew Brees drama of the past couple days. The question is this: Why can't we get behind a fight to end systemic racism / social injustice AND at the same time respect the flag of this great country? Why do those two things have to be mutually exclusive? I was really surprised how hard people came after Brees, and maybe even more so when he apologized. Anybody else having trouble with this?

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I really need some support on this question I'm about to ask. Let me first say that it is entirely possible I'm completely missing something here. But this is absolutely driving me crazy. It has to do with the Drew Brees drama of the past couple days. The question is this: Why can't we get behind a fight to end systemic racism / social injustice AND at the same time respect the flag of this great country? Why do those two things have to be mutually exclusive? I was really surprised how hard people came after Brees, and maybe even more so when he apologized. Anybody else having trouble with this?

Marine Corps veteran here for those that were unaware and I've been saying the same thing. Granted, I was rubbed the wrong way with Colin Kaepernick's initial protest years ago -- for multiple reasons -- but I didn't think it was as heinous of an act as some made it out to be. In the same breath, I also didn't understand why people who didn't view the flag as a symbol of oppression like he so clearly did were being attacked for their opinions. And yes, that was definitely happening because I have engaged in more than plenty of those discussions as well.

We have a growing issue here that isn't being talked about enough and it's this bullshit "groupthink or die" mentality where if you don't see things exactly how another person does then that means you're X, Y, and Z. No, that's not how any of this works. Drew Brees is fully entitled to share his feelings on what the flag as a symbol means for him. He's also allowed to say that and then say that his heart is with his teammates and black communities that are feeling pain at this time. It's not an "if this, then that" type of thing. That's only causing more divide, which in turn keeps us further away from reaching the end goal of unity. But not all people actually want or strive for unity for reasons that include political power. Another time for another day perhaps.

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:Sure, whatever the reason for her platform, it doesn't change that the words coming out of her mouth illustrate the viewpoints of many, including myself.

That's my point.

She's parroting talking points (almost always) about what one side thinks but only for her own financial gain. Use yourself as the mouthpiece if that's what you want to do. It's a heckuva lot more genuine.

All too often, we seek out people who think like us. It's how politics and social media work. Personally, I don't want to be grouped with some of these slimeballs, including the Candace Owens types.

And I tune them out the moment I see them. The inherent disingenuous to their personas skews any message they have.

Not unlike every one that works for espn.

Are you going to ESPN for political takes?

Ewwww.

I just want to

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I really need some support on this question I'm about to ask. Let me first say that it is entirely possible I'm completely missing something here. But this is absolutely driving me crazy. It has to do with the Drew Brees drama of the past couple days. The question is this: Why can't we get behind a fight to end systemic racism / social injustice AND at the same time respect the flag of this great country? Why do those two things have to be mutually exclusive? I was really surprised how hard people came after Brees, and maybe even more so when he apologized. Anybody else having trouble with this?

Marine Corps veteran here for those that were unaware and I've been saying the same thing. Granted, I was rubbed the wrong way with Colin Kaepernick's initial protest years ago -- for multiple reasons -- but I didn't think it was as heinous of an act as some made it out to be. In the same breath, I also didn't understand why people who didn't view the flag as a symbol of oppression like he so clearly did were being attacked for their opinions. And yes, that was definitely happening because I have engaged in more than plenty of those discussions as well.

We have a growing issue here that isn't being talked about enough and it's this bullshit "groupthink or die" mentality where if you don't see things exactly how another person does then that means you're X, Y, and Z. No, that's not how any of this works. Drew Brees is fully entitled to share his feelings on what the flag as a symbol means for him. He's also allowed to say that and then say that his heart is with his teammates and black communities that are feeling pain at this time. It's not an "if this, then that" type of thing. That's only causing more divide, which in turn keeps us further away from reaching the end goal of unity. But not all people actually want or strive for unity for reasons that include political power. Another time for another day perhaps.

My personal opinion always has been the kneeling during the national anthem doesn't seem disrespectful to me. Obviously many people do find it disrespectful including Drew Brees. To be honest I don't think I'll ever get that but its ok to have different perspectives on things.

I didn't like how people were going at Brees even after his first heartfelt apology. I'll hold back from making assumptions but it was disappointing and like Cam said that holds back the things that can get us where I think pretty much everyone wants to go. Everyone needs to be able to make mistakes along the way. Who is like a total expert on doing a variety of things? We are going to screw up Drew Brees who seems to be a really good dude, a star pro athlete etc screwed up. Everyone on all sides of things needs to allow for some screw ups sometimes.

Now lets talk a bit about why even if Brees thoughts are fair to have and to share were met with such outrage. Well...George Floyd was killed by someone KNEELING on his neck. I mean I can see the sensitivity could be there about anything to do with kneeling. All of us have kept from saying our true thoughts or opinions at times because we know its not the right time. You aren't going to someone's funeral and if someone asks you about the deceased...you probably are going to say...well he was my uncle but he was really an asshole. I mean...maybe if the guy did something really bad but yeah. Brees feels like not standing together disrespects the flag. What he ended up doing by saying that is making many people feel like he was disrespecting them which it doesn't seem he intended to do.

This has been a good discussion by a lot of thoughtful people I've gotten to know through their basketball posts over the years. A couple of points have particularly resonated with me. One was Cam's reference to group think. The other was Monster's reference to massive over generalizations. We have to respect other opinions and perspectives and we have to recognize nuance and facts rather than taking the easy path of overgeneralizing. If left unchecked, both of these things will continue to pull us apart as a society and lead to a situation even uglier than what we're seeing today.

People should be able to do whatever they want during the national anthem in a free country. Sit, stand, kneel. Certainly wasnt something worth losing your job over even if it was a bit silly in my mind.

They went after Brees hard because he is yet another white person setting the rules of engagement for taking on systemic racism and police brutality with his take on kneeling during the national anthem not being an acceptable form of protest. You can't knee during the national anthem to raise awareness. In many states right now you can't peacefully protest without getting tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets. Social media is full of police abuse of power in these situations escalating them and being the aggressors. My brain can't even compute the level of stupidity combined with arrogance we are seeing from cops right now who are under a microscope and still brutalizing unarmed civilians in broad daylight. That's a level of unchecked power that just doesn't give a fuck because of the limited if not zero repercussions they are gonna see which is why we are in this mess in the first place. Actions have consequences in this world unless you are a cop right now where you have a significantly high chance of the system ruling in your favor enabling you to pretty much do whatever the fuck you want. We all seem to agree rioting and looting is not the answer either.

So what is acceptable to do that doesn't lead to you getting criticized and your voice diminished (rioting, looting and kneeling during the national anthem) or getting brutalized by the police right now (peaceful protesting)? There hasn't been an "acceptable" way to challenge the system that doesn't result in one of those two outcomes right now so they are getting backed into a corner and given no options. The last thing that should be happening is white millionaires and media publicly setting the rules of engagement for what is acceptable while the cops are on the other side of that bridge brutalizing the people doing it the "right" way and facing zero consequences for doing so. Law and Order is following their own set of rules right now while we pay for them to do so.