Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote:But I would not stand pat if I were Rosas, because I think he is sitting on a nice trade chip that could make this team better. And that trade chip is Russell. While I acknowledge his offensive production and flashiness, I have never liked his overall game. He is a consistently strong scorer, but his underlying metrics are terrible. His poor defense not only is obvious from watching him, but also is borne out by his horrible defensive metrics. And he is by no means an efficient scorer- his career TS% of 52.6% falls significantly below the league average for SG's of 55.2%, and is embarrassingly just north of Andrew Wiggins' career TS% of 52.2%- not someone I want my starting SG to model in efficiency. I'm generally a fan of defensive studs and efficient scorers, and DLO is neither. Yet still, NBA GM's seem willing to trade for him, because there will always be a market for scorers. With that in mind, I would be looking at teams that need a scoring SG but have a surplus of bigs, and could be willing to give up a very good 2-way PF in exchange for Russell (sorry, I have no PFs in mind at the moment). This would allow Beasley and Culver to share the SG minutes, and move Mc Laughlin into a backup role behind Rubio. I would love to roll into 2020-21 with a starting lineup of KAT/stud 2-way PF/Edwards/Beasley or Culver/Rubio.

Not likely, but a guy can dream...

1. If you trade D'Angelo Russell at this point, then be prepared to trade Karl-Anthony Towns as well. Russell is going no where unless there's a decision to blow it all up.

2. Russell is not only a strong scorer, but he's also a high level facilitator. That combination of skills is in high demand in today's NBA and supply is limited whether we choose to accept it or not. There were only 13 players in the league last year that averaged at least 20.0 points per game and at least six assists per game.

3. You curiously chose to portray Russell's career TS% instead of who he's been the last couple of seasons. This is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league. Russell's TS% is .541 since 2018 and .556 in 45 games last year, which indicates tangible improvement.

For reference, that number was better than C.J. McCollum, Jrue Holiday, Fred VanVleet, Malcolm Brogdon, Spencer Dinwiddie, and Russell Westbrook to name a few. Russell is fine in regards to his efficiency.

Fair point about DLO improving his TS% last year, Camden- that's a good sign. And since I agree with 60WinTim that Rosas is unlikely to trade a guy he just traded for, I'm hopeful that Rubio's ability to make his teammates better may help DLO with his scoring efficiency. After all, Rubio made Pek an efficient scorer- he could work wonders with KAT, DLO and Edwards. I also agree with you that Russell is a good facilitator. But he remains a poor defender, and even in his most efficient season last season, he only got his TS% up to the league average for SGs. Different fans emphasize different characteristics in evaluating players, and I have always looked to defense, scoring efficiency and on/off numbers. If I were to grade DLO on my most important criteria, I would grade him C-, C (but improving) and C-, respectively. Someone else might look to scoring average and facilitating as the best way to evaluate a player, and in these areas I would give DLO a solid B and B+, respectively.

Fans can disagree on what criteria they find most important in predicting whether a player helps his team or not, but it's challenging to give DLO anything but low to average marks in the three areas that I tend to favor. This seems to be a smart board, so hopefully some of you can tell me where I'm wrong about DLO and make me feel better about having him as a key part of my favorite team. Because I agree that he is hear to stay.

And 60WinTim, I did leave Layman off my analysis. Sunshine is an easy guy to cheer for, but unfortunately I see him as an end of the bench guy on this roster. I wouldn't hesitate to use him as a 3rd option at PF and SF though if necessary.

FWIW a few people have asked Woodson and Jon K about Spellman and neither of them have heard anything that suggests anything is changed in him staying but that could change. The plan still seems for him to go elsewhere. Both kinda said that could change if no spot is found or maybe someone has a change of heart. I wouldn't mind keeping him unless a team gives up a future 2nd round pick for him or something with any value.

People just need to get over D Lo's defense. PG defense just doesn't matter in this league. Lillard, Kyrie, Kemba, Steph, Harden and on and on. None of these guys are good defenders and it doesn't hurt their team because they makeup for it on offense. We had Ricky for years and his great defense literally didn't matter while his lack of being able to score off the dribble killed us to close out games.

D Lo is the first all-star caliber playmaker and scorer on the ball we've had in forever. The best two way PG in the NBA for the last decade plus in CP3 hasn't seen any more success because of his defense over these other guys who primarily focus on offense. PG defense is the most overrated skill on this board. Half the teams in the league get away with having bad to mediocre PG D and yet our mindset for some reason is we can't be successful unless our PG can play D. Jeff Teague isn't a good defender and yet that team was able to make the playoffs somehow. We just need to get past that requirement and focus on things that matter.

Another real NBA caliber PF/C is badly needed, and an athletic one at that. Having only KAT and a bunch of nobodies is a joke. A trade is needed. I'm willing to part with Culver as he's got salary to match and some value and potential to interest another team.

Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:Another real NBA caliber PF/C is badly needed, and an athletic one at that. Having only KAT and a bunch of nobodies is a joke. A trade is needed. I'm willing to part with Culver as he's got salary to match and some value and potential to interest another team.

You may be right and many would agree with you here, but it just doesn't matter because Rosas would have drafted Wiseman in a heartbeat if this was his main criteria. He simply does not value traditional paint bigs.

khans2k5 wrote:People just need to get over D Lo's defense. PG defense just doesn't matter in this league. Lillard, Kyrie, Kemba, Steph, Harden and on and on. None of these guys are good defenders and it doesn't hurt their team because they makeup for it on offense. We had Ricky for years and his great defense literally didn't matter while his lack of being able to score off the dribble killed us to close out games.

D Lo is the first all-star caliber playmaker and scorer on the ball we've had in forever. The best two way PG in the NBA for the last decade plus in CP3 hasn't seen any more success because of his defense over these other guys who primarily focus on offense. PG defense is the most overrated skill on this board. Half the teams in the league get away with having bad to mediocre PG D and yet our mindset for some reason is we can't be successful unless our PG can play D. Jeff Teague isn't a good defender and yet that team was able to make the playoffs somehow. We just need to get past that requirement and focus on things that matter.

Khans, while I agree with you that PG defense isn't as important as paint or wing defense, it still matters. It just doesn't matter as much. DLO has been a level of awfulness above many of the names you mentioned above while not having the same offensive chops. In other words, he's worse than Lillard and Harden (for example) on BOTH sides of the ball.

Also, there actually are game-changing defensive point guards out there. Kris Dunn absolutely helped the Bulls become a league average defensive team last year. Patrick Beverley does the same. No, you don't build your team around one, but they do exist out there.

In the end, great offense + some defense is better than great offense + no defense. Unfortunately DLO fits more of the latter description.

Q12543 wrote:

Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:Another real NBA caliber PF/C is badly needed, and an athletic one at that. Having only KAT and a bunch of nobodies is a joke. A trade is needed. I'm willing to part with Culver as he's got salary to match and some value and potential to interest another team.

You may be right and many would agree with you here, but it just doesn't matter because Rosas would have drafted Wiseman in a heartbeat if this was his main criteria. He simply does not value traditional paint bigs.

Yep. Gersson Rosas seems to want a point guard, two wings, a small forward, and a center on the court at all times. Also, I think we need to think about the likelihood of Jake Layman being the full-time backup four. They'll mix Jarred Vanderbilt in every now and then, but Layman is going to play and he needs to get minutes somewhere. I think it'll predominantly be at the four spot.

FNG, I tend to agree with your assessment of DLO. His efficiency, while improved, is still a notch below the other great offensive PGs in the league. And his defense has been horrific. The result has been that basically he plays losing basketball even if his counting stats are pretty good.

Now Cam will hang his hat on the Brooklyn season. Fine. That's one year. The problem is he was just barely a net plus in the one season we all hope he can recreate in terms of team impact. Other PGs of lesser prominence have had a bigger impact on team success. That's just the facts.

I'm not ruling out further maturity and improvement from DLO, he's still pretty young.

Q12543 wrote:

Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:Another real NBA caliber PF/C is badly needed, and an athletic one at that. Having only KAT and a bunch of nobodies is a joke. A trade is needed. I'm willing to part with Culver as he's got salary to match and some value and potential to interest another team.

You may be right and many would agree with you here, but it just doesn't matter because Rosas would have drafted Wiseman in a heartbeat if this was his main criteria. He simply does not value traditional paint bigs.

Wiseman is a center. So I see why he wouldn't want him. I have in mind someone like Larry Nance. Mobile and uber athletic, able to play 2 positions, shot 35% from 3 on almost 3 attempts last season, good passer. Not exactly an archaic NBA big.