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Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:34 am
by AbeVigodaLive
I never said it was a full 10 feet beyond.
But it sure looks longer than 2.25' feet beyond the arc.
[Note: Took a screenshot of it... but I'm unable to attach it. But it's clear Ingram's feet are much closer to the Pelicans midcourt logo than the three point line. Sometimes, it's ok for us to make concessions as posters.]
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:37 am
by Q-is-here
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
I never said it was a full 10 feet beyond.
But it sure looks longer than 2.25' feet beyond the arc.
Yeah, no freakin' way is that only 2.25 feet beyond the arc. If you look where he was when he first went into his shot motion, he's at least 5-6 feet beyond the arc (probably not 10 feet though).
Either way, knowing it was a tie and that a 2 pointer or free throws win the game, forcing a contested 26+ footer seems like solid defense to me. Hell of a shot by BI.
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:08 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
I never said it was a full 10 feet beyond.
But it sure looks longer than 2.25' feet beyond the arc.
[Note: Took a screenshot of it... but I'm unable to attach it. But it's clear Ingram's feet are much closer to the Pelicans midcourt logo than the three point line. Sometimes, it's ok for us to make concessions as posters.]
I'm actually less concerned with whether the shot was from 26-feet or from 27 or 28, etc. My issue was with FNG saying it was 10-feet behind the three-point line to embellish his point, which would put Brandon Ingram on the edge or near the half-court logo and he's not. He hit from an area where we've seen NBA players rise up and confidently make shots almost nightly around the league. That's not to say that the shot is easy, but it's quite makable nowadays, especially for a guy that was as dialed in as Ingram was last night.
Why is this such a battle to acknowledge that Josh Okogie fucked up on that possession? Is this Minnesota nice? What's the issue? Why did Okogie get separated from Ingram
at all after the night he was having, especially late in the game?
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:14 pm
by FNG
Q-was-here wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:
I never said it was a full 10 feet beyond.
But it sure looks longer than 2.25' feet beyond the arc.
Yeah, no freakin' way is that only 2.25 feet beyond the arc. If you look where he was when he first went into his shot motion, he's at least 5-6 feet beyond the arc (probably not 10 feet though).
Either way, knowing it was a tie and that a 2 pointer or free throws win the game, forcing a contested 26+ footer seems like solid defense to me. Hell of a shot by BI.
Yeah, it was a good basketball play all around, and just didn't go in our favor. There's an argument to be made that JO should have never even "showed" toward JoVal, but he closed on Ingram so quickly he still turned it into a long contested shot. BI was brilliant all night in the face of what I thought was very good defense by Vando and Jaden...he made some nifty passes and ended up with 9 assists.
I wanted the win and it was there for the taking, but I still thought it was a very entertaining basketball game. Both teams moved the ball reasonably well and shot over 45% on their threes. Herb Jones is a budding defensive superstar, and Josh Hart and JoVal are also tough on D. so I'm pleased with putting up 125 on them. Losing to a pretty good team that shot the lights out is no cause for despair at all.
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:01 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
I have only two quibbles:
1. I find it amusing the hoops (and hypocrisies) some posters will jump through to avoid a very simple "yeah, my bad" or even "I might have been slightly off there."
2. I don't care what metrics we're using... New Orleans is a pretty bad team, even if they've improved since a disastrous start. They're still 25th in offensive rating. And 25th in defensive rating. Now that doesn't make it an embarrassing loss or anything. Hot shooting nights happen for every NBA team. These losses are inevitable from time to time.
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:27 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I have only two quibbles:
1. I find it amusing the hoops (and hypocrisies) some posters will jump through to avoid a very simple "yeah, my bad" or even "I might have been slightly off there."
2. I don't care what metrics we're using... New Orleans is a pretty bad team. They're 25th in offensive rating. And 25th in defensive rating. Now that doesn't make it an embarrassing loss or anything. Hot shooting nights happen for every NBA team. These losses are inevitable from time to time.
Agreed. Your first quibble describes FNG, and yourself for vaguely defending his point, at this moment in time.
This never should have developed into the back-and-forth that it did. The NBA registers shot charts for every game. They annotated Brandon Ingram's game-winning shot last night was from 26-feet. We can disagree with their methods or findings, but the
fact is that Ingram's shot wasn't nearly as deep as it was initially described here, which is what prompted my first response in breaking down how Josh Okogie misplayed that possession.
Furthermore, you are typically an objective poster here who doesn't react kindly to hyperbole and exaggeration. You've [rightfully] called out others in the past for using generalized statistics instead of using the precise value on hand. I find it entirely laughable that you would insinuate that
I'm the one jumping through hoops here.
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:32 pm
by Monster
It's less than 9 feet between the FT and the 3 point line so that's sort of a point of reference you can use if you want to figure out the distance.
After watching the play a bunch of times...(why am I even doing this???) personally it looks like Okogie actually thought Ingram was going to cut to the basket and was out of position coming around behind him and it only got worse as he kept going toward the basket getting himself further out of position. Maybe he was playing the percentages and also knowing Jonas was there to help cut that off also. Idk but I think I tend to agree with Cam that Okogie's D broke down to some extent and sure he got a contest but Ingram already had it lined up etc I'm not going to give Josh a ton of credit there. Sure it's still a lengthy shot but getting the ball and being able to walk into a long shot at the end of the game isn't the kind of defense I'm gonna praise especially for a guy like Okogie who that's exactly why he is out there. Okogie didn't lose the game or anything like that. I'd say for sure Ingram won the game more than Josh lost it with his play.
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:48 pm
by FNG
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I have only two quibbles:
1. I find it amusing the hoops (and hypocrisies) some posters will jump through to avoid a very simple "yeah, my bad" or even "I might have been slightly off there."
2. I don't care what metrics we're using... New Orleans is a pretty bad team, even if they've improved since a disastrous start. They're still 25th in offensive rating. And 25th in defensive rating. Now that doesn't make it an embarrassing loss or anything. Hot shooting nights happen for every NBA team. These losses are inevitable from time to time.
Abe, I agree that the Pelicans team that started the season 3-16 was nothing short of dreadful...at one point early in the season they were 1-13, with the one win against...well, you know. And when you're close to the worst team in the league for your first 19 games, its difficult to get out of that statistical hole. But the team I watched last night looks more like the team that has gone a respectable 12-10 in their last 22 games, with wins over Golden State, Utah, Cleveland, Dallas, Milwaukee and the Clippers (before Paul George went down). They're aggressive on defense, move the ball, and rebound as well as almost any team in the association. 6 players 24 years old or younger are getting rotation minutes, and several of them were terrible when we saw them earlier in the year, but all of them seem to have made significant strides. Are they a playoff team while missing their best player? I'm guessing not. But they looked pretty good to me last night, as did our Wolves. Could be some of my appreciation for the Pels is due having to watch vomit-producing OkC, Houston and the Clippers' G League team the past week. You should check out some of the highlights if you missed the game.
Or maybe I'm just building the Pels up because I want to think positively about the Wolves before they get ready to face Murderer's Row the next three weeks...
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:39 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
Camden wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:I have only two quibbles:
1. I find it amusing the hoops (and hypocrisies) some posters will jump through to avoid a very simple "yeah, my bad" or even "I might have been slightly off there."
2. I don't care what metrics we're using... New Orleans is a pretty bad team. They're 25th in offensive rating. And 25th in defensive rating. Now that doesn't make it an embarrassing loss or anything. Hot shooting nights happen for every NBA team. These losses are inevitable from time to time.
Agreed. Your first quibble describes FNG, and yourself for vaguely defending his point, at this moment in time.
This never should have developed into the back-and-forth that it did. The NBA registers shot charts for every game. They annotated Brandon Ingram's game-winning shot last night was from 26-feet. We can disagree with their methods or findings, but the
fact is that Ingram's shot wasn't nearly as deep as it was initially described here, which is what prompted my first response in breaking down how Josh Okogie misplayed that possession.
Furthermore, you are typically an objective poster here who doesn't react kindly to hyperbole and exaggeration. You've [rightfully] called out others in the past for using generalized statistics instead of using the precise value on hand. I find it entirely laughable that you would insinuate that
I'm the one jumping through hoops here.
You ripped on FNG for exaggerating the distance (claiming nefarious reasons for him to do so)... while exaggerating the distance yourself. (We can all see that it's clearly not 26 feet from the video in this thread.)
Anyway, I found it all amusing.
Re: Wolves vs Pelicans GDT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:50 pm
by Leado01
Here's a take on that game.
Our transition defense, specifically, sucked. They did a great job getting their shots up quickly and getting out in transition.
That being said, if someone told you the Wolves shot 46% from 3 in a game, I think most of us would assume a win, but you have to tip your hat to N.O. for shooting 48% from 3.
JoVal was absolutely THE difference maker in this game. They substituted AGAINST Towns and no one other than Towns could even remotely move him. Not Vando or McDaniels and JoVal dominated Naz so much that KAT had to play with almost zero break.
I would have considered taking a T regarding JoVal's elbows and pushes if I was Finch last night. Or just asked Night to go out and see if he could bait him into some bad decisions.
That being said, that was a great game that we ended up on the wrong side of.
Also, that was a deep 3 for a game winner and a great shot. Hyperbole should be allowed on this board.