WolvesFan21 wrote:Nice now we can start winning. Do we have a chance to make the playoffs still? I think so!
Just a good chance of giving up a top 10 pick. Don't hope for anything else.
So the same as under Ryan then.
Yep. I'm a realist. No coach fixes this team. Our two best players haven't played together, and they are not all that good of a fit together.
Rubio has been atrocious, he is by far the worst starting PG in the league and very close to the worst backup as well. So it's not that I think DLO is exceptional, just getting avg PG play should elevate our win/loss record dramatically. At full health I think .500 ball is reasonable.
.500 ball in this conference does not give you a likelihood of the playoffs. At that point you are gambling. At a stupidity high risk.
I was kidding about making the playoffs. Sarcasm is difficult on the net. lol
It definitely is. I added more. We are fucked for two years at least, even if most will not accept it.
We still have the youngest team in the NBA. Had only a couple games this season where we were all healthy.
You can't make young players good overnight which is why I understand our win/loss record now. Defensively we've had too many mistakes most of the season and subpar effort at times as well. I don't even think Ryan is a good HC I just don't think it would have mattered who was coaching. With KAT and or DLO out for most of the games then add in Rubio and JO's complete ineptitude on offense we've struggled playing 4 on 5 on offense.
It would be nice to get Culver back sometime too, he can do a little on offense versus JO who has done nothing all year.
I would like to see the continued improvement of the young guys as well. I would start Jaden over Vandy as he is much more effective on offense. Vandy especially last night was terrible. I still like his potential, but man he needs to realize it sooner.
I think our best lineup now is JMac, Beas, Ant, Jaden and KAT. I think it says a lot that our best lineup has two rookies in it.
mrhockey89 wrote:Lip, going to disagree with you on this one. Either Rosas is going to be given full reigns as GM or he is not. It seems more and more like Ryan was pushed on him and Finch was his guy all along. If that's true, then picking Vanderpool simply because he's been on the bench is a poor reason. It's Rosas' job on the line to make the right pick. I remember when Thib was picked to be head coach. There were concerns with him overplaying the young guys but most were excited because he was a legitimate big name head coach, probably the biggest the Wolves have had (perhaps above Flip). Ultimately though he brought some good things, our defense wasn't what it was supposed to be with him, and ended up still not being the right fit.
Even if Vanderpool is a great head coach, if he's not 100% on the same page as our GM while Finch is, he (Finch) may still be the better choice for the Wolves.
In the end, we'll find out in in the next 2-3 years not if Vanderpool would have been the right guy, but whether Finch was.
Fair point, Hockey. Now that I've had a few minutes to reflect and cool down, I agree with your assessment. This had to be Gersson's call and there's no objective basis for me to conclude that Vanterpool was a better head coaching candidate than Finch. As it turns out, I was wrong about Finch not being considered for other head coaching positions. Apparently, the Pacers considered him as possibly another team or two.
I'm glad you pointed that out, Lip. I actually thought he was going to be the guy in Indiana and many others did too, but he ended up runner up. He's been a hot name the past year (Nick Nurse has a lot of credibility in this league, and when he praises somebody, people listen). Vanderpool is a terrific assistant coach by all reports...Lillard and McCollum rave about him as being instrumental in their development. But Ryan also got a lot of credit as an assistant coach in Washington for Wall's and Beal's quick development. It's telling to me that Vanderpool has been passed over what...6 times now? I think the league recognizes that some guys like Vanderpool and Saunders are terrific assistant coaches, but not the right guy to lead a team. I think we would all agree that head coaching and assistant coaching are very different, and more than a handful of NBA GMs have concluded that Vanderpool is not head coach material. Let's hope Finch is.
kekgeek1 wrote:Bold prediction, Ryan Saunders will be the Wolves head coach again in my lifetime. He just wasn't ready, he is 34, seems like he is a good dude who could/can make connections with his players. He'll land on his feet and maybe in 10 years he'll learn a lot more and be a ton better for it. Thought Ryan was a terrible HC but he is a good person who got a job he wasn't ready for
Maybe, Kek... and I certainly agree with your assessment. Good guy, but not ready at his age to be a head coach. I think the string of close losses the past couple weeks might have been heartening from a Wolves future perspective, but the inability to close out any of those games was the final nail in the coffin for ryan. I'm never happy when a good guy gets fired, but this is the right move...especially because I think Rosas just might have hired the right guy this time.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Hockey, I was using foresight when I ranted about how bad the DLO trade was the day it happened. No hindsight here.
Any GM that tries to copy the mild success of his former employer has already lost. Now he's trying to play catch up, and unless he gets extremely lucky, he will fail sooner than later. Like many of our problems Glen is at the root of this. He made the decision to hire Rosas, something that should never have happened. Believe me I hate to be a downer, but until we get the right PBO nothing much is going to change.
Curious, can you name me one GM that didn't try to at least somewhat replicate the system they came from? Who should they have hired rather than Rosas? Chauncey? Rosas represented the direction the NBA is going, so I don't get the animosity to the hire itself?
Look at the most successful teams of the last 30 years and you will have your answer.
I'm not following. I just want examples of GMs or coaches that didn't attempt to mimic their previous gigs. I'd argue that's the reason most of these guys are hired, so they WILL emulate their previous stops and the systems they come from.
Exactly! The biggest issue this board has with that is that this forum hated Houston's system and doesn't lead to the kind of winning this forum wants. Therefore, the outrage over Rosas' moves shouldn't have been surprising up to now. He has a plan. We just support the plan or its endgame.
Camden0916 wrote:I will never believe that the decision to hire Ryan Saunders was Gersson Rosas' to make. Rosas was hired with an understanding that Saunders was to have his interim label removed. That came from the very top. Glen Taylor's stench is all over that move, unfortunately. How quickly Rosas pivoted to Chris Finch only further solidifies that idea for me. It's evident that Finch is his guy. That was very likely his choice back in 2019 when he interviewed for the position as well. Finch to Minnesota never transpired because of Taylor's affinity and blind faith in Saunders. It's just more obvious now.
It's the only way I think you can read it. This does give Rosas an even longer grace period, so if the Finch situation doesn't work too, it will likely be till the end of 22-23 until he's gone. Hard for me to see a situation where Towns stays until then. Unless Finch and Rosas really are geniuses and the Wolves are a top 3 seed next year.
Probably already mentioned... but this one is on Taylor. Again.
Clearly, Saunders was not Rosas' guy for the gig. But it appears Taylor meddled enough for Saunders to get the gig. And it was an unwinnable gig with all the personnel changes, a new system without the right talent, and the injuries to Towns.
Add in that Saunders was still in building an assistant coach resume... he wasn't ready either.
- In the end, Saunders gets fired from his dream gig... even though he shouldn't have had it yet.
- The Wolves waste more seasons.
- Rosas buys himself more time.
- The fans watch terrible basketball.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Probably already mentioned... but this one is on Taylor. Again.
Clearly, Saunders was not Rosas' guy for the gig. But it appears Taylor meddled enough for Saunders to get the gig. And it was an unwinnable gig with all the personnel changes, a new system without the right talent, and the injuries to Towns.
Add in that Saunders was still in building an assistant coach resume... he wasn't ready either.
- In the end, Saunders gets fired from his dream gig... even though he shouldn't have had it yet.
- The Wolves waste more seasons.
- Rosas buys himself more time.
- The fans watch terrible basketball.
Did I miss anything?
Good stuff, Abe. I actually wondered how you would be feeling today after all this shook out. To me, it feels like Gersson Rosas officially started the clock on his tenure by finally hiring his head coach. The fate of the Wolves is solely on him now. And if the results aren't good somewhat soon -- within two seasons -- I think Rosas will be kicked out of the door.
Do you agree with this? Do you think Rosas' window here after hiring a new coach is greater than if he would have just kept Saunders for another year? In terms of job safety alone, which is the better play for Rosas?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Probably already mentioned... but this one is on Taylor. Again.
Clearly, Saunders was not Rosas' guy for the gig. But it appears Taylor meddled enough for Saunders to get the gig. And it was an unwinnable gig with all the personnel changes, a new system without the right talent, and the injuries to Towns.
Add in that Saunders was still in building an assistant coach resume... he wasn't ready either.
- In the end, Saunders gets fired from his dream gig... even though he shouldn't have had it yet.
- The Wolves waste more seasons.
- Rosas buys himself more time.
- The fans watch terrible basketball.
Did I miss anything?
Good stuff, Abe. I actually wondered how you would be feeling today after all this shook out. To me, it feels like Gersson Rosas officially started the clock on his tenure by finally hiring his head coach. The fate of the Wolves is solely on him now. And if the results aren't good somewhat soon -- within two seasons -- I think Rosas will be kicked out of the door.
Do you agree with this? Do you think Rosas' window here after hiring a new coach is greater than if he would have just kept Saunders for another year? In terms of job safety alone, which is the better play for Rosas?
I don't know.
But it seems to have reached the point (maybe Rosas is feeling enough heat) that he decided that he's not going down without a fight... without his guy on the sidelines.
And by hiring an interim... we'd be looking at two full lost seasons. Or, even worse for Rosas, the Wolves would have won enough so that Taylor pressures him into hiring the interim long-term. Considering it's almost inevitable the Wolves start winning more games, I can see why Rosas would want to avoid that.
Imagine being a GM of a terrible organization but never really having a say in the head coach. Rosas has his guy. He has his team. The Wolves need to start winning now.
I don't see another terrible season next season. I think they improve enough to get the Rosas Regime into the 2023 season. A LOT will be riding on that season though. We might be waist-deep in Towns trade talk by then.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Nice now we can start winning. Do we have a chance to make the playoffs still? I think so!
Just a good chance of giving up a top 10 pick. Don't hope for anything else.
So the same as under Ryan then.
Yep. I'm a realist. No coach fixes this team. Our two best players haven't played together, and they are not all that good of a fit together.
Rubio has been atrocious, he is by far the worst starting PG in the league and very close to the worst backup as well. So it's not that I think DLO is exceptional, just getting avg PG play should elevate our win/loss record dramatically. At full health I think .500 ball is reasonable.
.500 ball in this conference does not give you a likelihood of the playoffs. At that point you are gambling. At a stupidity high risk.
I was kidding about making the playoffs. Sarcasm is difficult on the net. lol
It definitely is. I added more. We are fucked for two years at least, even if most will not accept it.
We still have the youngest team in the NBA. Had only a couple games this season where we were all healthy.
You can't make young players good overnight which is why I understand our win/loss record now. Defensively we've had too many mistakes most of the season and subpar effort at times as well. I don't even think Ryan is a good HC I just don't think it would have mattered who was coaching. With KAT and or DLO out for most of the games then add in Rubio and JO's complete ineptitude on offense we've struggled playing 4 on 5 on offense.
It would be nice to get Culver back sometime too, he can do a little on offense versus JO who has done nothing all year.
I would like to see the continued improvement of the young guys as well. I would start Jaden over Vandy as he is much more effective on offense. Vandy especially last night was terrible. I still like his potential, but man he needs to realize it sooner.
I think our best lineup now is JMac, Beas, Ant, Jaden and KAT. I think it says a lot that our best lineup has two rookies in it.
You can't make young players great has been said for at least a dozen years now.
There is one constant. Taylor sucks at evaluating basketball talent, from the top down, and he is making the decisions.
I have some opinions I would like to unlimber myself of. If you don't agree with me, and you can express that without accusing one billionaire of eating human flesh and second billionaire of removing womens' reproductive organs with his thumb and forefinger, I would be more than happy to hear you out. Seems like a silly request on a sports message board, and yet here we are.
1. How nice of 1991 Scottie Pippen to show up and guard Beasley yesterday (or maybe how rude of Trenton Hassel to lock Beasley in the supply closet and play in his place). Six shots in 38 minutes? Hey Ryan: Before you and Mchale's son and Wittman's son take over the Wayzata program, maybe google "stagger screen". You're welcome. (I noticed a "1993 Suns" nostalgia thread. Didn't read it, but it goes without saying that the coolest set play of the 90's was that Pacer baseline stagger screen to free up Reggie. I don't expect a huge argument on this.)
2. Hey Glen: If you got the "Parcells/TO" game circled on the calendar, maybe let the kid know so he doesn't play his two rookies for all of crunch time. People are starting to talk like you may not know what you are doing.
3. OK. So obviously nobody at FSN is going to confront Glen. And maybe less obviously, nobody at the S/T is going to. Where are Powers and Sansevere? Does anybody say anything about this dumpster fire? (Note: I have been gone a while, and if Powers and/or Sansevere are dead, I apologize for the insensitivity.)
Success looks to me like:
1. They keep their pick and draft the center for USC. I saw the Kofi Cockburn thread, and before I googled him I thought "Boy this board has really gotten gross". The kid from USC is probably better, which means they will have lost their pick when his turn comes
2. A BlondeRicky/JO trade. Seriously, who's idea was it to give up PICKS for BlondeRicky and Davis? 82games just did their first update, and before I pulled it up, I said "OK, BlondeRicky, Davis, and Okogee are having the 3 worst seasons." Sure enough. I think a three way involving NO and ORL where MN sends out BRR/JO and gets back Gordon and Melli (with ORL getting Bledsoe) might be doable.
