Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Just saw this report:

The Chicago Bulls and forward Lauri Markkanen are open to a sign-and-trade deal, league sources told HoopsHype. One team to keep an eye on in the sign-and-trade market for Markkanen is the Minnesota Timberwolves, who've been searching for an upgrade at the power forward position.

Multiple teams with cap space entering the offseason also have Markkanen on their free agency radar, including the San Antonio Spurs and Oklahoma City Thunder, HoopsHype has learned.

Markkanen, 24, shot a career-high from the field (.480) and beyond the arc (.402) last season with the Bulls.

Chicago recently extended a qualifying offer to Markkanen, which will make him a restricted free agent entering the market. Markkanen wants to play a larger role after a reduced role in Chicago last season.

This would be a Rosas type move. He talks about the need for a defensive big and rebounding, but then trades for an offensive-oriented stretch 4. Reminiscent of Rosas talking about the fast-paced, full court style of play with lots of ball movement he intended and then trading for a half-court, shoot-first, pick-and-roll PG named DLO.

We already have a roughly equivalent facsimile of Markkanen in Juancho. No thank you!

This looks like some fantastic reporting. The Wolves have need of a PF and Markkanen is available so the Wolves are interested. Give the person that connected the dots on this one an award and a raise!!! :)

The Wolves need to find a PF and while I agree with Q that Markkanen is roughly like Juancho I do think he is a more legit player and bigger which helps. I also have a little more hope that Markkanen could improve. It would make sense to check in and at least see what kind of contract it would take to sign him. I have no idea what the Bulls would actually want in return for him that would make sense. He certainly wouldn't be high on my list and one of his problems like Juancho is he has had problems staying healthy. I'd much rather give up some sort of middling asset to add Thad Young just for a year.

Solid reporting indicated Gersson's interest in Gallo. So it stands to reason that he'd be interested in Markkanen. But we don't know how interested. Maybe a one-for-one trade of Prince for Markkanen. :). Just trying to make you laugh, Monster. :)

:)

Just to be clear I was taking a bit of a shot at the "report" not you posting it.

I'll say one sliver of hope for Markkanen being even an average starter (which would make him reasonably valuable around the league)?is...last season was his first playing under a legitimately good coach in Billy Donovan and he had career high shooting numbers. So MAYBE a better coaching staff can get more out of him as a guy that's had some success and turned 24 in May. I wasn't a fan of his in the draft going as high as he did (thought he would be an NBA player just not amazing) but at this point I do think he is a rotation player in the NBA and if somehow a team could sign him for money as a rotation guy he could be useful...and possibly even a trade asset.

Also you have brought me such laughter and joy I hope to do the same for you someday. :)

Monster - Can't take ourselves or this message board too seriously. :). As for Markkanen, I think he's a starting stretch 4 in the League and his improvement last season was encouraging. He's just a poor fit for the Wolves. We need more size and we need to substantially improve our defense, including rim protection. We also need help on the boards for Towns. Markkanen doesn't provide any of that. He's tall, but has a average length and isn't strong or tough. And it's never been a good defender. Here's the draftnet analysis of his weaknesses coming into the NBA:

As skilled as Markkanen is on the offensive end, he offers nowhere near the same potential on defense ... His lack of strength is a major soncern as he gets toseed around pretty easily by NCAA bigs and already has filled out with broad shoulders ... His core and leg strength need a lot of work, and may never allow him to battle inside against the NBA's top post players ... He does not have great length, limiting his ability to protect the rim, and being thin for his height, he plays a lot smaller than his size ... He may be more of a mismatch as a stretch-five man on offense, but the flip side is that he may not have any chance to slow down most centers on the defensive end ... As mentioned, Markkanen's lack of a strong base hinders his ability to battle for position in the post ... He is also not very physical down low, and he does not have the length to contest shots from other post players to make up for his inability to fight for good position ... Combine his lack of length with just average timing and instincts, and he could be a potential liability on this end of the court ... On the perimeter he has good feet, but he has a tendency to bend his back instead of his knees to get down in his stance, which eliminates some lateral quickness and effectiveness ... He is a nightmare to guard as a stretch-four on offense, but he often gets lost when trying to defend opposing stretch-fours on the perimeter ... His intincts in defending the pick and roll and knowing when to come help from the weak side also needs to improve ... His rebounding ability is also less than stellar for many of the same reasons that his defensive upside is limited ... Markkanen averaged an underwhelming 9.3 rebounds per 40 minutes, as he lacks the length, range, and toughness to be a force in this department ... He does not always work hard to get great position when the shot goes up, nor does he have the necessary frame to push opposing big men out of position ... Scouts also question how much more there really is to his offensive game than just his shooting ability ... He does not appear to have much of a post game, other than simple jump hooks and turnaround jumpers and is not a great finisher in traffic ... Not the most vocal or demonstrative person, will need to work on being more assertive and vocal on the floor ... He also is not a very gifted playmaker at this stage (1.2 assists per 40 minutes) and he goes left most times he puts the ball on the floor ... He is much better attacking off the dribble from the catch than in isolation situations, and he does not look nearly as natural shooting the ball when going to his right hand ... Aside from the defensive concerns, he also must develop his offensive repertoire outside of his jump shot.

That analysis was prophetic now that we've seen Lauri for several years in the NBA. It's troubling to hear that the Wolves are interested in him at all. He shouldn't even be on the list given what the Wolves need.

I agree that trading for Markkenen would be a prototypical Rosas move. Let's keep in mind a pretty smart coach didn't see him as a starting PF last season, and put him behind Dan Theis on the depth chart. All that said, he would be a clear upgrade over Juancho...better 3-point shooter and, although defensively challenged, actually a better defender. I'm still hoping we can find a way to add some toughness and defense to the PF position, but if all other options are exhausted and prove to be unsuccessful, I wouldn't be opposed to Juancho and filler for Lauri. I need to know that Lauri is not Rosas's first choice though, and that he is smart enough to know this team badly needs some toughness next to KAT.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Just saw this report:

The Chicago Bulls and forward Lauri Markkanen are open to a sign-and-trade deal, league sources told HoopsHype. One team to keep an eye on in the sign-and-trade market for Markkanen is the Minnesota Timberwolves, who've been searching for an upgrade at the power forward position.

Multiple teams with cap space entering the offseason also have Markkanen on their free agency radar, including the San Antonio Spurs and Oklahoma City Thunder, HoopsHype has learned.

Markkanen, 24, shot a career-high from the field (.480) and beyond the arc (.402) last season with the Bulls.

Chicago recently extended a qualifying offer to Markkanen, which will make him a restricted free agent entering the market. Markkanen wants to play a larger role after a reduced role in Chicago last season.

This would be a Rosas type move. He talks about the need for a defensive big and rebounding, but then trades for an offensive-oriented stretch 4. Reminiscent of Rosas talking about the fast-paced, full court style of play with lots of ball movement he intended and then trading for a half-court, shoot-first, pick-and-roll PG named DLO.

We already have a roughly equivalent facsimile of Markkanen in Juancho. No thank you!

This looks like some fantastic reporting. The Wolves have need of a PF and Markkanen is available so the Wolves are interested. Give the person that connected the dots on this one an award and a raise!!! :)

The Wolves need to find a PF and while I agree with Q that Markkanen is roughly like Juancho I do think he is a more legit player and bigger which helps. I also have a little more hope that Markkanen could improve. It would make sense to check in and at least see what kind of contract it would take to sign him. I have no idea what the Bulls would actually want in return for him that would make sense. He certainly wouldn't be high on my list and one of his problems like Juancho is he has had problems staying healthy. I'd much rather give up some sort of middling asset to add Thad Young just for a year.

Solid reporting indicated Gersson's interest in Gallo. So it stands to reason that he'd be interested in Markkanen. But we don't know how interested. Maybe a one-for-one trade of Prince for Markkanen. :). Just trying to make you laugh, Monster. :)

:)

Just to be clear I was taking a bit of a shot at the "report" not you posting it.

I'll say one sliver of hope for Markkanen being even an average starter (which would make him reasonably valuable around the league)?is...last season was his first playing under a legitimately good coach in Billy Donovan and he had career high shooting numbers. So MAYBE a better coaching staff can get more out of him as a guy that's had some success and turned 24 in May. I wasn't a fan of his in the draft going as high as he did (thought he would be an NBA player just not amazing) but at this point I do think he is a rotation player in the NBA and if somehow a team could sign him for money as a rotation guy he could be useful...and possibly even a trade asset.

Also you have brought me such laughter and joy I hope to do the same for you someday. :)

Monster - Can't take ourselves or this message board too seriously. :). As for Markkanen, I think he's a starting stretch 4 in the League and his improvement last season was encouraging. He's just a poor fit for the Wolves. We need more size and we need to substantially improve our defense, including rim protection. We also need help on the boards for Towns. Markkanen doesn't provide any of that. He's tall, but has a average length and isn't strong or tough. And it's never been a good defender. Here's the draftnet analysis of his weaknesses coming into the NBA:

As skilled as Markkanen is on the offensive end, he offers nowhere near the same potential on defense ... His lack of strength is a major soncern as he gets toseed around pretty easily by NCAA bigs and already has filled out with broad shoulders ... His core and leg strength need a lot of work, and may never allow him to battle inside against the NBA's top post players ... He does not have great length, limiting his ability to protect the rim, and being thin for his height, he plays a lot smaller than his size ... He may be more of a mismatch as a stretch-five man on offense, but the flip side is that he may not have any chance to slow down most centers on the defensive end ... As mentioned, Markkanen's lack of a strong base hinders his ability to battle for position in the post ... He is also not very physical down low, and he does not have the length to contest shots from other post players to make up for his inability to fight for good position ... Combine his lack of length with just average timing and instincts, and he could be a potential liability on this end of the court ... On the perimeter he has good feet, but he has a tendency to bend his back instead of his knees to get down in his stance, which eliminates some lateral quickness and effectiveness ... He is a nightmare to guard as a stretch-four on offense, but he often gets lost when trying to defend opposing stretch-fours on the perimeter ... His intincts in defending the pick and roll and knowing when to come help from the weak side also needs to improve ... His rebounding ability is also less than stellar for many of the same reasons that his defensive upside is limited ... Markkanen averaged an underwhelming 9.3 rebounds per 40 minutes, as he lacks the length, range, and toughness to be a force in this department ... He does not always work hard to get great position when the shot goes up, nor does he have the necessary frame to push opposing big men out of position ... Scouts also question how much more there really is to his offensive game than just his shooting ability ... He does not appear to have much of a post game, other than simple jump hooks and turnaround jumpers and is not a great finisher in traffic ... Not the most vocal or demonstrative person, will need to work on being more assertive and vocal on the floor ... He also is not a very gifted playmaker at this stage (1.2 assists per 40 minutes) and he goes left most times he puts the ball on the floor ... He is much better attacking off the dribble from the catch than in isolation situations, and he does not look nearly as natural shooting the ball when going to his right hand ... Aside from the defensive concerns, he also must develop his offensive repertoire outside of his jump shot.

That analysis was prophetic now that we've seen Lauri for several years in the NBA. It's troubling to hear that the Wolves are interested in him at all. He shouldn't even be on the list given what the Wolves need.

So you said he is a starting level player but the Wolves shouldn't be interested at all? Let's say for fun we could sign him for 3 years 21 million. You wouldn't be interested in that? I get he doesn't fit all the needs but upgrading the roster makes a lot of sense especially if it would be on a value contract.

Having said that I'm not sure how he would be an upgrade over just playing Naz 30+ minutes a game but I do think the Wolves should be looking at every option to upgrade that spot next to Towns. I think it's possible Markkanen might be willing to do a prove it deal (player option 2nd year) with the Wolves and be plugged in a possible starter. Again I have no idea what the Bulls would want back in a sign and trade from us that makes much sense.

FNG wrote:I agree that trading for Markkenen would be a prototypical Rosas move. Let's keep in mind a pretty smart coach didn't see him as a starting PF last season, and put him behind Dan Theis on the depth chart. All that said, he would be a clear upgrade over Juancho...better 3-point shooter and, although defensively challenged, actually a better defender. I'm still hoping we can find a way to add some toughness and defense to the PF position, but if all other options are exhausted and prove to be unsuccessful, I wouldn't be opposed to Juancho and filler for Lauri. I need to know that Lauri is not Rosas's first choice though, and that he is smart enough to know this team badly needs some toughness next to KAT.

That's a good take, FNG. The Juancho + filler swap for Markkanen makes some sense, but I still wouldn't do it. I'd rather hold onto Juancho's effective expiring contract, see what we can get out of him this season and then either let him walk or package him at the trade deadline when his expiring contract will have more value. If we acquire Markkenan in a sign-and-trade, we'll likely pay him more per year than we pay Juancho and commit to multiple years. That would not be a good move for this franchise.

https://theathletic.com/2723241/2021/08/02/john-hollingers-2021-nba-free-agency-center-rankings-by-bord-starters-yes-stars-not-so-much/

Thoughts on Hollinger's list and analysis? Who, if anyone, on this list should the Wolves pursue outright or in a sign-and-trade?

Spilling all this ink on Markkanen doesn't make any sense to me. Why would either team want basically a replica of a guy they want to get rid of (i.e. Juancho + filler for Markkanen)!? And I don't necessarily see Markkanen as an upgrade to Vanderbilt due to fit. We need defenders, rebounders, and toughness next to KAT, not another soft-ass European!

lipoli390 wrote:https://theathletic.com/2723241/2021/08/02/john-hollingers-2021-nba-free-agency-center-rankings-by-bord-starters-yes-stars-not-so-much/

Thoughts on Hollinger's list and analysis? Who, if anyone, on this list should the Wolves pursue outright or in a sign-and-trade?

Can you copy and paste that section? You need a subscription to the Athletic to access the contn

Hollinger posted an article about 40 minutes ago that mentioned the Wolves interest in Markkanen, Kuzma and Gallo. Of course, none of those align with the Wolves need to upgrade their interior defense - a need that Gersson emphatically stressed at his draft night press conference. Go figure.

I don't see the Wolves being able to acquire any top-tier free-agent or non free-agent bigs like John Collins or Richaun Holmes. And I don't think they'll be able to acquire next tier free agent bigs like Daniel Theis. There are a number of defensively challenged bigs the Wolves need to stay away from, including Markkanen, Kaminsky, Kanter, etc. Therefore, based on what I'm reading about interest and cap space around the League, I think the Wolves have essentially two options. One option is to do major deal for Myles Turner. That sort of deal would likely require the Wolves to package Beasley with other assets other than KAT, DLO, Ant, McDaniels or Naz Reid. The other option is to sign one of the lower-tier free agent bigs on the market. I think our best options would be one of two young guys - Hartenstein and Tony Bradley.

Q12543 wrote:Spilling all this ink on Markkanen doesn't make any sense to me. Why would either team want basically a replica of a guy they want to get rid of (i.e. Juancho + filler for Markkanen)!? And I don't necessarily see Markkanen as an upgrade to Vanderbilt due to fit. We need defenders, rebounders, and toughness next to KAT, not another soft-ass European!

Whoops...either pre-coffee lack of clarity or early onset dementia by FNG. I withdraw my comment that I would not be opposed to trading for Lauri. I hadn't thought about the length of the contract he would have compared to Juancho's expiring that Lip pointed out. Bad take by me, and thanks to Lip and Q for setting me straight!

Chris Paul declines 44M. Will he really get paid more?