Count the Crowd Size: Memphis vs. Minnesota GDT

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

My God that was ugly. Two teams that can't shoot straight.

- Gasol and Conley are still pretty good, but they are starting to run out of gas.

- Bayless with a hell of a game. 12 assists, zero turnovers.

- Our defense was solid or Memphis just can't shoot....both really.

- Taj did some yoeman's work guarding Gasol in the waning minutes.

- Great play design by Ryan for KAT near end of regulation. Thibs would NEVER have drawn up a play like that. But then Ryan had ice-cold fumbly hands Wiggins with the ball for the last shot in OT...that WAS classic Thibs. Oh well, it ended up working out.

- We're not making the playoffs. We have KAT and then a massive dropoff in talent from there. I like how Ryan has these guys hustling, but he just doesn't have the talent, especially with the three guards hurt.

[Lipoli390]

My God that was ugly. Two teams that can't shoot straight.

- Gasol and Conley are still pretty good, but they are starting to run out of gas.

- Bayless with a hell of a game. 12 assists, zero turnovers.

- Our defense was solid or Memphis just can't shoot....both really.

- Taj did some yoeman's work guarding Gasol in the waning minutes.

- Great play design by Ryan for KAT near end of regulation. Thibs would NEVER have drawn up a play like that. But then Ryan had ice-cold fumbly hands Wiggins with the ball for the last shot in OT...that WAS classic Thibs. Oh well, it ended up working out.

- We're not making the playoffs. We have KAT and then a massive dropoff in talent from there. I like how Ryan has these guys hustling, but he just doesn't have the talent, especially with the three guards hurt.

Yep, it's KAT and what you accurately characterized as a massive drop off in talent. The Wolves organization has one critical task ahead of it between now and the start of next season, namely, acquire another elite talent to pair with Towns. That's it. Anything beyond that is gravy or simply meaningless. Ideally, it would be someone like Donovan Mitchell or better yet Doncic who becomes an impact player right away, but it doesn't have to be. KAT is only 23 and is locked up for 5 years after this season. So it can be someone who takes a season or two to develop. The only remotely realistic chance of landing a player of that caliber will be the June draft. Maybe for once we'll get really lucky and jump from #12 or 13 to #1 or 2. Otherwise, the Wolves front office will have to do something it's never done, except perhaps with Okogie (jury still way out). That is, draft an allstar talent in the lower third of the lottery.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Not much to add to the game thread, except it's nice to be back inside and warm. You guys saw what I saw...a very poorly-played ugly game that we one only because our 4th string PG played a really good game.

Couldn't have been more than 5000 in the building, and a lot fewer than that by the time we got to overtime. It was so disappointing to see Ryan pull a Thibs and call Wig's number on the last play...fortunately KAT bailed both him and Wig out with a lucky last second shot. But no knowledgeable fan left the arena night feeling good about this game. We beat a very bad team by 2 on our home court.

The ugly parts of the game were numerous: Wig's and Josh's shooting, KAT's inability to stay on the court, Wig's ballhandling, and everything about Canaan were the most notable ones. But there were some bright spots too. Ryan's play call out of the time out late in the game and his timing in putting Deng on the floor exactly when we need him every game, Bayless's perfect game with no turnovers and lots of positive stats, Gibson's and Wiggins' defense all game (both had a lot to do with how bad Memphis was on offense), and Gorgui's best 22 minutes in a long time.

Moat of the board has given up on this team making the playoffs, and I have to admit they looked nothing like a playoff team tonight. But then I look at standings and see that we are still only 3 games out despite playing the last few weeks without 4 key players. I can't help wondering how much better this team will be if we ever get healthy, and we don't have to be that much better to pick up 3 games...especially since we have 2 more home games against the team that currently occupies the 8th spot. We simply need to weather the 6 games left before the ASG (hopefully 3-3, and hope to get everyone back by the 22nd.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Nice play call by Ryan. He's back on my list for our long term head coach.:)

I love it Lip. It must be fun watching a game with you in person. Live and die by every possession.

Haha. I was thinking the same thing

[AbeVigodaLive]

Missed this one...

But two buzzer beaters in the past 10 days or so is so amazing!

Wait... what?
Both games were against teams who've lost 16 out of 18 games?


Well... errr... ummmm... hey, a win is a win. I guess.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

The buzzer beater thing is just weird, Abe, and it's not just the two recent ones...4 of Ryan's 6 wins (he's 6-5 now) have been nail biters, and I don't know what to make of that. The negative spin is that we really shouldn't let teams like Phoenix and Memphis take us down to the wire. But the positive spin is that somehow we are showing the poise not often seen with this franchise to win the close ones...even with our best defender and our top 3 PGs in street clothes. I have to admit I was conflicted and feeling both of these walking out yesterday, and it's a very uncomfortable feeling.

It's the morning after the game, but the stench is still there...that might have been the ugliest game I have ever seen, and that takes a lot away from a win we desperately needed. But some positives emerge after reflection. First, as ugly as Memphis looked last night and as much as they have been struggling, I was surprised to see that the Griz have not thrown in the towel. They played hard (albeit poorly) all night...they were engaged and enthusiastic all night. Honestly, watching them you might have thought they were playing a playoff game rather than another loss in a lost season...they wanted to win this one.

Then, I compare this game to the last home game against the Griz...the enormously disappointing 100-87 loss. There was no fight in the Wolves that day, and was the final straw for many of us with respect to Thibs. It was clear to me after that game that this team just didn't want to play for him anymore. Contrast that with last night. Thibs had RoCo, Rose, Teague and Tyus all available, and Ryan had none of them and was forced to play non-NBA players like Canaan and Okogie because there just weren't any other options. And yet we played hard all night and were able to pull this one out despite playing horrible and shorthanded, while Thibs couldn't beat Memphis at home with a complete roster...2 games is not even a sample size, but I can't ignore the contrast. Wig was TERRIBLE last night...fumble fingers all night and unable to make a shot. But he is Exhibit 1 in the contrast with the previous Griz game. But while he was totally lethargic in the previous game, he was engaged all night last night...actually active on offense (several cuts to the basket that I haven't seen much of this year) and focused and effective on defense.

OK, I have talked myself into feeling better and I can go on with the day. We are terribly shorthanded and aren't going anywhere without RoCo and a couple PGs. But we are also a completely different team under Ryan than we were under Thibs...that could not be any clearer to me in watching the two Griz games. I can't wait to see how this team performs once we get our players back.

IF we ever get our players back...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

My God that was ugly. Two teams that can't shoot straight.

- Gasol and Conley are still pretty good, but they are starting to run out of gas.

- Bayless with a hell of a game. 12 assists, zero turnovers.

- Our defense was solid or Memphis just can't shoot....both really.

- Taj did some yoeman's work guarding Gasol in the waning minutes.

- Great play design by Ryan for KAT near end of regulation. Thibs would NEVER have drawn up a play like that. But then Ryan had ice-cold fumbly hands Wiggins with the ball for the last shot in OT...that WAS classic Thibs. Oh well, it ended up working out.

- We're not making the playoffs. We have KAT and then a massive dropoff in talent from there. I like how Ryan has these guys hustling, but he just doesn't have the talent, especially with the three guards hurt.

Yep, it's KAT and what you accurately characterized as a massive drop off in talent. The Wolves organization has one critical task ahead of it between now and the start of next season, namely, acquire another elite talent to pair with Towns. That's it. Anything beyond that is gravy or simply meaningless. Ideally, it would be someone like Donovan Mitchell or better yet Doncic who becomes an impact player right away, but it doesn't have to be. KAT is only 23 and is locked up for 5 years after this season. So it can be someone who takes a season or two to develop. The only remotely realistic chance of landing a player of that caliber will be the June draft. Maybe for once we'll get really lucky and jump from #12 or 13 to #1 or 2. Otherwise, the Wolves front office will have to do something it's never done, except perhaps with Okogie (jury still way out). That is, draft an allstar talent in the lower third of the lottery.

Yup, it's pretty grim. We have a couple of drafts here to try to hit the bullseye and find a stud perimeter player to play next to KAT.

Think about this....in our entire franchise history, the only all-star level talents we have drafted that were perimeter players were guys we traded away! Ray Allen and Brandon Roy. Otherwise, it's a long list of busts, mediocrities, and an occasional good but not great player.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Then, I compare this game to the last home game against the Griz...the enormously disappointing 100-87 loss. There was no fight in the Wolves that day, and was the final straw for many of us with respect to Thibs. It was clear to me after that game that this team just didn't want to play for him anymore. Contrast that with last night. Thibs had RoCo, Rose, Teague and Tyus all available, and Ryan had none of them and was forced to play non-NBA players like Canaan and Okogie because there just weren't any other options. And yet we played hard all night and were able to pull this one out despite playing horrible and shorthanded, while Thibs couldn't beat Memphis at home with a complete roster...2 games is not even a sample size, but I can't ignore the contrast. Wig was TERRIBLE last night...fumble fingers all night and unable to make a shot. But he is Exhibit 1 in the contrast with the previous Griz game. But while he was totally lethargic in the previous game, he was engaged all night last night...actually active on offense (several cuts to the basket that I haven't seen much of this year) and focused and effective on defense.

Meh. To be fair, the first Memphis game was right in the middle of the Wolves best stretch of the season... when they won 7 of 9... and 9 of 12.

They won 6 out of 8 after that bad, uninspiring loss... with the only losses coming to Denver and Boston.

So again... your eye test and assumptions about Thibs tell us one thing... but the stats/tangible evidence suggest otherwise.


[Note: I'm not suggesting that the players loved playing for Thibs or anything of the sort... only that the team hadn't mailed it in as you seemed to be suggesting. I have no idea who hated or loved playing for Thibs and how much that affected their on-court performance.]

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

All true, Abe...we bounced back from that Memphis loss nicely. But as most of us agree here, this is still a player's league and generally better teams will prevail against clearly worse teams...regardless of the coaching. And I have always maintained that this Wolves roster, when healthy, is much more talented than almost all the teams they beat during that hot stretch. Conversely, I maintain that this roster with 4 key players missing is not as talented as most teams we are playing, and every win during this rough injury patch is a gift.

Yeah, neither of us can know for sure whether the players prefer playing for Thibs or Ryan and whether they will be more successful coached by one rather than the other, and there's no data to clearly support one position or the other. But this is an opinion forum, and having watched both Griz games very closely, I have a very strong opinion...this team plays harder now. Both games were extraordinarily ugly, but the Wolves team I watched last night was much easier to cheer for. Much easier.

But that's just opinion.. there's also this. Thibs coached the Wolves to a 15-point loss against Memphis with all his players healthy. Ryan coached them to a 2-point win with 4 key players missing and his star player hampered by fouls...again. Maybe a meaningless sample size, but I know which version of the 2018-9 Wolves is easier for me to cheer for.

[Monster]

Wiggins was mostly disappointing on offense but did some other good stuff at least. Meanwhile one of the last possessions of the game Wiggins has the Ball Towns comes sets s screen Wiggins drives and makes and easy pass to a wide open Towns for 3 which he misses. WHY not do that again at the end of the game?!?!?!? Also if Bruno played 75% as good as he did in this game most games he would make a bunch of money. Dude is huge almost as tall as Towns and looks down on Wiggins. He has never put it together.

Ugly game I was livid at some of the calls missed around the end of the 3rd and beginning of the 4th quarter. Wolves did stay in this one playing some solid D even though Memphis sucks at offense the Wolves still were getting int done. Is Bayless dong what Old Man Jarrett Jack did last year playing somewhat experienced and more effective than maybe the stats show? Heck of a game for him.

I wasn't sure about that timeout that Ryan took where it was a use it or lose it situation either. I wonder how many minutes Bayless had played at that point. Dude was looking gassed even after a timeout in overtime. That timeout for the 2nd jump ball ended up looking smart. Jim was befuddled at how Memphis lined up for that jump ball. I was too. Made Ryan look like a genius for taking the timeout.

Ugly win but we got it. The Wolves keep hanging around and doing it with Bayless and some other guys playing minutes often out of position.