Preseason opener.

[thedoper]

My main takeaway is that this team is built for Butler. What an idiot. That starting two spot is going to cause some grief for a bit. I'd like to see Okogie up there for these preseason games.

If he can stay healthy I think Rose will be good with the second unit because Tyus moves the ball quicker than Teague, plus somehow Tyus gets zero penetration so we need that from someone to feed Tolliver.

[Lipoli390]

My take-always from this pre-season opener:

POSITIVES

1. Tolliver was a nice acquisition. He's not afraid to put up threes and he makes a lot of them. He's not a particularly good player overall, but as a major part of our second unit, he looks like he'll be a significant plus.

2. I liked what I saw from Okogie tonight. He didn't fill up the box score, but he looked really good to me. Defensively, he's everywhere, has quick hands and doesn't allow himself to be easily picked. He also looked surprisingly poised on the offensive end, making some nice plays.

3. Luol Deng looks like he can still play and should be another nice addition to the second unit.

4. I actually liked what I saw from KBD, but he missed a lot of shots he'll need to make to be a legitimate NBA player. I'll attribute it for now to first-game rookie jitters.

5. KAT looked good and made some nice defensive plays tonight.

NEGATIVES

1. Teague is ultimately a liability. He has a nice shot, but oddly passes up threes he should take and can make in favor of twos. He's terrible defensively and doesn't really make players around him better or run the offense well the way you expect from your PG.

2. Wiggins showed no signs of improvement over last season. Same disappearing act, same shaky ball-handling, same emphasis on contested twos. It's just one preseason game, so we'll see. But it was really disheartening to watch him tonight.

Thanks for the write-up Lip. That Teague/Rose combination is just yuckie basketball to watch, although on paper both did pretty well offensively. But KAT got only 8 shots!? Thibs offense relies so damn much on isolation and dribbling that it freezes out one of the best offensive players in the league!

Tyus Jones was more aggressive looking for his shot, but only went 2-10. But sure enough, guess who led the team in +/-? Good things just seem to happen when he's on the floor.

Bjelica may be the better all-around player compared to Tolliver, but Tolliver is a better fit for what we need, which is someone that will hoist up 3's if given the slightest crack of space. Love it!

I forgot to mention Tyus among my positives. As you noted, he didn't shoot well. But that happens. The point is that he did everything else well. He's a much better defender than Teague and he knows how to actually orchestrate an offense and make his teammates better. Of course, Thibodeau's offense doesn't provide much to orchestrate :) but the difference between Teague and Tyus in that regard is huge. I just wish Tyus could shoot as well as Teague.

[Lipoli390]

A couple questions for those that saw the game:

I've seem some hype about Okogie on realgm and on Twitter. It's 1 preseason game but what did you think?

What about the pace did the Wolves get up and down the floor more? I know they isolated once they got down there but did they get the ball up quicker more?

I watched the game late last night. Okogie was definitely worth talking about. Cam is hoping we see a dramatic improvement from Okogie between summer league and the season, ala Donovan Mitchell. And I think we saw signs of that. He looked much more poised and in control on offense, and I swear his handle looks improved as well. His defense continues to look great. It seems Okogie is everything we wished Wiggins could be!

A couple other notes:

Dieng's boxscore might have been okay, but he did not look good at all, in my opinion. I thought Deng looked a bit slow, but not as slow as Dieng. It is quite possible Dieng's minutes drop even more this year with Tolliver, Deng and KBD in the fold.

Everything we hate about Wiggins' offensive game was on display tonight. I still do not understand how he was rewarded with a max contract when he really has done nothing but score a shitload of inefficient points.

I thought Rose looked good. His injury history suggests he will not hold up, but he certainly makes our team deeper. We are missing Butler, but this team "feels" deeper than it did when Butler was healthy and playing last year. I guess that's what happens when you have more versatile players in place of a couple of one-position players from last year, Brooks and Aldrich.

Tim -- You mentioned two things about Okogie that stood out for me as well - his poise and ball-handling. He really looked poised out there and didn't play like a rookie in his first game. Like you, I noticed a marked improvement in his ballhandling over what I saw in Summer League.

One thing I'll add is that I really liked his feel for the game on both sides of the ball. Watching the game for a second time today, I'm noticing in particular how quickly he moves the ball. He was better than anyone else on the team at not stalling the ball in his hands. He looked instinctive, giving up the ball quickly if nothing was there for him and making the right pass when he gave it up.

[Lipoli390]

A couple questions for those that saw the game:

I've seem some hype about Okogie on realgm and on Twitter. It's 1 preseason game but what did you think?

What about the pace did the Wolves get up and down the floor more? I know they isolated once they got down there but did they get the ball up quicker more?

I like Okogie's hustle for sure. Without Butler, we need somebody who will put out more effort on both sides of the ball, especially for rebounds and 50-50 balls. He drew a foul or two contesting shots, but that's better than giving up easy buckets. His arms may be long, but he's not as tall as Butler or Wiggins, so a couple guys were able to get off jump shots right over him before he could get his hands up. He did knock down a couple jump shots, but it doesn't look smooth for him. He's kind of a pop-up shooter, if you know what I mean. He stomps a bit with both feet and then pops up quick for the jump shot. Like Westbrook, Rose, or Butler, none of whom are known for their high percentage jump shots. I'm not sure I see a guy who is going to contribute much offensively early on, but if Towns and Taj are getting more shots, that's fine, because they are higher percentage shooters. He could end up being a defensive specialist who fits our needs well. If he could develop a reliable 3 point shot, then he could be a much more valuable player, a 3 and D kind of guy. Like a more defensive Wes Matthews type, or a smaller Trevor Ariza. But that's if his 3 point shot comes along. Otherwise I see him as a more aggressive MGH in the meantime (and I liked what MGH brought to the table for us).

My sense is that we didn't run too much, unfortunately, although I'll want to watch that for a few more games before concluding that's happening for sure.

Drew - I saw more potential than you saw in Okogie. I see him becoming much more than a 3&D guy. In other words, I see him having the potential to become a Donovan Mitchell and not just a Marcus Smart. I think it might take him a bit longer than Mitchell because he has further to go as a ball-handler and perimeter shooter. But watching Okogie last night (and also in Summer League) I saw some terrific offensive as well as defensive instincts and some really nice passing ability.

[Lipoli390]

My main takeaway is that this team is built for Butler. What an idiot. That starting two spot is going to cause some grief for a bit. I'd like to see Okogie up there for these preseason games.

If he can stay healthy I think Rose will be good with the second unit because Tyus moves the ball quicker than Teague, plus somehow Tyus gets zero penetration so we need that from someone to feed Tolliver.

Doper - I agree with you on Rose. I'm with those who didn't like the Teague/Rose combination. But I like him as a key part of our second unit. He played last night the way he played when he joined us last season -- bringing great effort and energy to the court while still showing the ability to put the ball in the hole.

[Lipoli390]

Prediction - the Wig bashing that is about to happen daily on this board (I'll be one of them and deservedly so) Cool will walk away from the board. Unfortunate because he is a HOF poster.

I was fuming at what I saw from Wiggins last night. I'm still hoping last night was not indicative of what we'll see from Andrew in the regular season. But sadly, what we saw last night was indicative of what we saw from Andrew last season so I'm not going to get my hopes to high.

I'm going to try to keep my Wiggins-bashing to a minimum this season. No sense beating a dead horse. He either makes a big leap this season a la Oladipo or he is what he is and will need to be moved if a decent deal ever presents itself. But I still have one significant caveat. I'd still like to see Wiggins play for a head coach who knows how to use him. Wiggins had his best season under Flip and played better under Sam than he's played under Thibodeau. I thought Wiggins looked good in the post last night, but as usual he was underutilized there by Thibodeau. So I will restrain my criticism of Wiggins and oppose trading him until he's had the chance to play for a smart, intellectually curious, modern NBA head coach.

[thedoper]

The Wiggins issue has always been overblown here. He didn't draft himself, trade himself, or write his contract. I personally like to root for players that have flaws but work hard and have good attitudes. Every coach Wiggins has had speaks well of his work ethic and rewards him with playing time. I still want to see it come together for him and think the good things he has started to do on the court especially defensively have begun to counteract the missed shots. He continues to take an extremely vital role in our team D while playing workhorse minutes. I'm 100% sure if his shots start falling people here will start talking about his improvements in the other aspects of his game. If the shots don't fall, the dead horse rhetoric will continue.

[TAFKASP]

The Wiggins issue has always been overblown here. He didn't draft himself, trade himself, or write his contract. I personally like to root for players that have flaws but work hard and have good attitudes. Every coach Wiggins has had speaks well of his work ethic and rewards him with playing time. I still want to see it come together for him and think the good things he has started to do on the court especially defensively have begun to counteract the missed shots. He continues to take an extremely vital role in our team D while playing workhorse minutes. I'm 100% sure if his shots start falling people here will start talking about his improvements in the other aspects of his game. If the shots don't fall, the dead horse rhetoric will continue.

I agree he didn't draft, nor trade himself, but he signed the contract, he set those expectations. As a player you either know what comes with that kind of contract, or you not too terribly bright.

[thedoper]

The Wiggins issue has always been overblown here. He didn't draft himself, trade himself, or write his contract. I personally like to root for players that have flaws but work hard and have good attitudes. Every coach Wiggins has had speaks well of his work ethic and rewards him with playing time. I still want to see it come together for him and think the good things he has started to do on the court especially defensively have begun to counteract the missed shots. He continues to take an extremely vital role in our team D while playing workhorse minutes. I'm 100% sure if his shots start falling people here will start talking about his improvements in the other aspects of his game. If the shots don't fall, the dead horse rhetoric will continue.

I agree he didn't draft, nor trade himself, but he signed the contract, he set those expectations. As a player you either know what comes with that kind of contract, or you not too terribly bright.

So you think he's not trying to live up to the contract? That would be a character judgement that goes against what any of his coaches seem to think about him. I get the scruitny, but he's always had the question marks. The overblown criticism happened before he ever signed the extension. I think it's fair to criticize the contract, we may never get full value. But who wouldn't sign that deal? No one on earth would refuse an overpaid contract because they felt they weren't worth it.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

A couple questions for those that saw the game:

I've seem some hype about Okogie on realgm and on Twitter. It's 1 preseason game but what did you think?

What about the pace did the Wolves get up and down the floor more? I know they isolated once they got down there but did they get the ball up quicker more?

I like Okogie's hustle for sure. Without Butler, we need somebody who will put out more effort on both sides of the ball, especially for rebounds and 50-50 balls. He drew a foul or two contesting shots, but that's better than giving up easy buckets. His arms may be long, but he's not as tall as Butler or Wiggins, so a couple guys were able to get off jump shots right over him before he could get his hands up. He did knock down a couple jump shots, but it doesn't look smooth for him. He's kind of a pop-up shooter, if you know what I mean. He stomps a bit with both feet and then pops up quick for the jump shot. Like Westbrook, Rose, or Butler, none of whom are known for their high percentage jump shots. I'm not sure I see a guy who is going to contribute much offensively early on, but if Towns and Taj are getting more shots, that's fine, because they are higher percentage shooters. He could end up being a defensive specialist who fits our needs well. If he could develop a reliable 3 point shot, then he could be a much more valuable player, a 3 and D kind of guy. Like a more defensive Wes Matthews type, or a smaller Trevor Ariza. But that's if his 3 point shot comes along. Otherwise I see him as a more aggressive MGH in the meantime (and I liked what MGH brought to the table for us).

My sense is that we didn't run too much, unfortunately, although I'll want to watch that for a few more games before concluding that's happening for sure.

Drew - I saw more potential than you saw in Okogie. I see him becoming much more than a 3&D guy. In other words, I see him having the potential to become a Donovan Mitchell and not just a Marcus Smart. I think it might take him a bit longer than Mitchell because he has further to go as a ball-handler and perimeter shooter. But watching Okogie last night (and also in Summer League) I saw some terrific offensive as well as defensive instincts and some really nice passing ability.

I like the guy for sure. I've always got a soft spot for guys who work their butts off. Corey Brewer and Mark Madsen are my favorite Wolves of all time!

I definitely see the potential to be more than a two-dimensional 3&D guy. He's got better handles than you'd expect from some traditional 3&D guys like Ariza and I trust him to create passes for others, draw fouls a bit, and certainly run the floor in transition. I'd definitely put the ball in his hands a bit and trust him to initiate before, well, Wiggins, and I'm not trying to start anything here. I'd say that sounds quite a bit like Marcus Smart, and that's not a bad thing IMO! I don't see the passing of Andre Igoudala, and I don't think he's as big, but I can see shades of Iggy in there. The big question is going to be if he can knock down the 3 pointer consistently.

I wouldn't mention Donovan Mitchell even with the word potential in there or it just sets us up for disappointment. That guy is going to be a superstar for sure. He's already like a cross between Damian Lillard and Dwyane Wade offensively with a side of Tony Allen defensively. That guy can do shit nobody else can do. I love watching him play. His balance, floor vision, and instincts are crazy good.