CoolBreeze44 wrote:No one has championed the need for toughness more than me. I've said it repeatedly, we need shooting and toughness. But my hope for this team isn't just to make the playoffs. If that's really your end game, then i can certainly understand why you would want to blow a large portion of your cap space on Tucker. He might help you squeak into the 7th or 8th spot. But in my opinion all of our moves should be made with the idea of contending in mind. And if you do that, the playoff appearances are going to come as a natural byproduct of those moves.
Its kinda funny how we have latched on to certain guys as targets. What about a guy like Tony Snell?
I liked the idea of Tony Snell until I checked out 82games.com recently. His team was -4.6 points per 100 possessions with him on the court vs. off the court last year, mostly because, surprisingly, the Bucks were better defensively without him than with him on the court.
lipoli390 wrote:Wild and Kahns - I agree that this is the summer to spend money on free agents. I just disagree with those who think Tucker is the guy to help get us from 31 wins to the playoffs. And the money it will take to sign him probably won't leave much room for another quality free agent.
Tucker alone isn't going to get us from 31 wins to the playoffs. The only guys who might would be Paul George or Jimmy Butler or MAYBE Paul Millsap. And even then, the biggest factor is going to be the development of Wiggins and Towns and our team defense.
But assuming we're not going to get one of those top guys, I think Tucker could play a solid role for us. He defends multiple positions well and brings a lot of contagious toughness and hustle, as well as a decent 3 point shot, and those are the sort of things that could really help the young guys step up by relieving defensive pressure, setting the tone, and spacing the floor a bit. As for the cost, he's been making 5 million per so I doubt he's going to be that expensive, but I agree I wouldn't want to overpay him. I like Sefolosha, but Tucker has a better +/- stats (+4.2 to +1.7), a better three point shot, he can guard more positions, and he's even a year younger. Plus he's just tougher, and we really lack that.
Would I rather have Butler, George, Millsap, or Ibaka? Absolutely. Would Tucker be a starter for us as a real contender? No, probably (or at least ideally) not. But I do think he would be a reasonable signing to help carry some weight for the next couple years in a way that could help give our core (Wiggins and Towns mostly) the breathing room to develop, and he'd still be a valuable role player after that given his skill set.
I see a guy like Tucker as being a bit like training wheels for a bike, in a way. Our team is not yet ready to really ride on its own with all the young guys. Obviously, we've crashed a lot doing that already. In my view, Tucker could help keep us upright for a bit and help give us a bit of time and opportunity to get better to a point where we may not even need him. That's why he's kind of appealing to me as a realistic FA signing.
When Tucker signed his last deal he was younger but also had just committed an "Extreme DUI" which probably kept the price down. Also the cap that year was around 58 million. What is the range you are willing to pay before it's overpaying?
lipoli390 wrote:Wild and Kahns - I agree that this is the summer to spend money on free agents. I just disagree with those who think Tucker is the guy to help get us from 31 wins to the playoffs. And the money it will take to sign him probably won't leave much room for another quality free agent.
Tucker alone isn't going to get us from 31 wins to the playoffs. The only guys who might would be Paul George or Jimmy Butler or MAYBE Paul Millsap. And even then, the biggest factor is going to be the development of Wiggins and Towns and our team defense.
But assuming we're not going to get one of those top guys, I think Tucker could play a solid role for us. He defends multiple positions well and brings a lot of contagious toughness and hustle, as well as a decent 3 point shot, and those are the sort of things that could really help the young guys step up by relieving defensive pressure, setting the tone, and spacing the floor a bit. As for the cost, he's been making 5 million per so I doubt he's going to be that expensive, but I agree I wouldn't want to overpay him. I like Sefolosha, but Tucker has a better +/- stats (+4.2 to +1.7), a better three point shot, he can guard more positions, and he's even a year younger. Plus he's just tougher, and we really lack that.
Would I rather have Butler, George, Millsap, or Ibaka? Absolutely. Would Tucker be a starter for us as a real contender? No, probably (or at least ideally) not. But I do think he would be a reasonable signing to help carry some weight for the next couple years in a way that could help give our core (Wiggins and Towns mostly) the breathing room to develop, and he'd still be a valuable role player after that given his skill set.
I see a guy like Tucker as being a bit like training wheels for a bike, in a way. Our team is not yet ready to really ride on its own with all the young guys. Obviously, we've crashed a lot doing that already. In my view, Tucker could help keep us upright for a bit and help give us a bit of time and opportunity to get better to a point where we may not even need him. That's why he's kind of appealing to me as a realistic FA signing.
When Tucker signed his last deal he was younger but also had just committed an "Extreme DUI" which probably kept the price down. Also the cap that year was around 58 million. What is the range you are willing to pay before it's overpaying?
I really have no idea. I guess I'd look at the average salaries for solid role playing vets with pedestrian stats averaging 25 minutes per game and aim in that ballpark, but I'm not sure what that is.
lipoli390 wrote:Wild and Kahns - I agree that this is the summer to spend money on free agents. I just disagree with those who think Tucker is the guy to help get us from 31 wins to the playoffs. And the money it will take to sign him probably won't leave much room for another quality free agent.
Tucker alone isn't going to get us from 31 wins to the playoffs. The only guys who might would be Paul George or Jimmy Butler or MAYBE Paul Millsap. And even then, the biggest factor is going to be the development of Wiggins and Towns and our team defense.
But assuming we're not going to get one of those top guys, I think Tucker could play a solid role for us. He defends multiple positions well and brings a lot of contagious toughness and hustle, as well as a decent 3 point shot, and those are the sort of things that could really help the young guys step up by relieving defensive pressure, setting the tone, and spacing the floor a bit. As for the cost, he's been making 5 million per so I doubt he's going to be that expensive, but I agree I wouldn't want to overpay him. I like Sefolosha, but Tucker has a better +/- stats (+4.2 to +1.7), a better three point shot, he can guard more positions, and he's even a year younger. Plus he's just tougher, and we really lack that.
Would I rather have Butler, George, Millsap, or Ibaka? Absolutely. Would Tucker be a starter for us as a real contender? No, probably (or at least ideally) not. But I do think he would be a reasonable signing to help carry some weight for the next couple years in a way that could help give our core (Wiggins and Towns mostly) the breathing room to develop, and he'd still be a valuable role player after that given his skill set.
I see a guy like Tucker as being a bit like training wheels for a bike, in a way. Our team is not yet ready to really ride on its own with all the young guys. Obviously, we've crashed a lot doing that already. In my view, Tucker could help keep us upright for a bit and help give us a bit of time and opportunity to get better to a point where we may not even need him. That's why he's kind of appealing to me as a realistic FA signing.
When Tucker signed his last deal he was younger but also had just committed an "Extreme DUI" which probably kept the price down. Also the cap that year was around 58 million. What is the range you are willing to pay before it's overpaying?
I really have no idea. I guess I'd look at the average salaries for solid role playing vets with pedestrian stats averaging 25 minutes per game and aim in that ballpark, but I'm not sure what that is.
First of all, excellent writeup on Tucker, Drew. I think you summarized well what he would bring to this team: toughness and leadership, three-point shooting, defense, and willingness to let others score.
Who knows what he would cost us, but I'm guessing not much. He's 32 and averaged 6.7 PPG last season, and those numbers aren't going to create a lot of demand. 3 years for $18 million should do it, and still leave us with cap space to sign another vet.
My biggest problem with Tucker is his name. How do you get "PJ" out of "Anthony Leon"? This needs to be resolved before I'm ready to make him an offer.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:No one has championed the need for toughness more than me. I've said it repeatedly, we need shooting and toughness. But my hope for this team isn't just to make the playoffs. If that's really your end game, then i can certainly understand why you would want to blow a large portion of your cap space on Tucker. He might help you squeak into the 7th or 8th spot. But in my opinion all of our moves should be made with the idea of contending in mind. And if you do that, the playoff appearances are going to come as a natural byproduct of those moves.
The only people we could sign and maybe become a contender would be CP3 and Blake. Nobody else gets us to that level because no other free agents in this class have been at that level let alone with 3 22 year olds as their running mates. Contending off this free agency period just isn't realistic unless we land CP3 or Blake. We're still way too young to contend with the likes of GS, SA or Houston in the next 3 years and that's not even factoring needing to beat Lebron if we got there. We should be focused on making the playoffs, building continuity and preparing to contend in 3 years, not within the next 3 years because it's just not gonna happen that fast with this young a team given who we'd have to contend with in the near future. You can't really be contender or bust when we don't even know if our big 3 is good enough to be a perennial contender.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:No one has championed the need for toughness more than me. I've said it repeatedly, we need shooting and toughness. But my hope for this team isn't just to make the playoffs. If that's really your end game, then i can certainly understand why you would want to blow a large portion of your cap space on Tucker. He might help you squeak into the 7th or 8th spot. But in my opinion all of our moves should be made with the idea of contending in mind. And if you do that, the playoff appearances are going to come as a natural byproduct of those moves.
The only people we could sign and maybe become a contender would be CP3 and Blake. Nobody else gets us to that level because no other free agents in this class have been at that level let alone with 3 22 year olds as their running mates. Contending off this free agency period just isn't realistic unless we land CP3 or Blake. We're still way too young to contend with the likes of GS, SA or Houston in the next 3 years and that's not even factoring needing to beat Lebron if we got there. We should be focused on making the playoffs, building continuity and preparing to contend in 3 years, not within the next 3 years because it's just not gonna happen that fast with this young a team given who we'd have to contend with in the near future. You can't really be contender or bust when we don't even know if our big 3 is good enough to be a perennial contender.
I'm certainly not suggesting we could, or even attempt to become a contender during this FA season. That's not my point. But you kind of hit on my point when you say we should be preparing to contend in 3 years. I don't necessarily think it has to take that long, but that's the right idea. Making the playoffs is going to be a goal for us next season. It just shouldn't consume us as we shape the roster. There are much bigger fish to fry down the road.
LST you are way undervaluing what Tucker is going to get in FA with 3 years 18 million contract. The number for him is gonna start at 10 million per unless he takes a cheaper deal to be on a contender. You can take that to the bank...with PJ and he can explain to you his nickname. Lol If we could get him for that contract Cool would likely be on board.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:No one has championed the need for toughness more than me. I've said it repeatedly, we need shooting and toughness. But my hope for this team isn't just to make the playoffs. If that's really your end game, then i can certainly understand why you would want to blow a large portion of your cap space on Tucker. He might help you squeak into the 7th or 8th spot. But in my opinion all of our moves should be made with the idea of contending in mind. And if you do that, the playoff appearances are going to come as a natural byproduct of those moves.
The only people we could sign and maybe become a contender would be CP3 and Blake. Nobody else gets us to that level because no other free agents in this class have been at that level let alone with 3 22 year olds as their running mates. Contending off this free agency period just isn't realistic unless we land CP3 or Blake. We're still way too young to contend with the likes of GS, SA or Houston in the next 3 years and that's not even factoring needing to beat Lebron if we got there. We should be focused on making the playoffs, building continuity and preparing to contend in 3 years, not within the next 3 years because it's just not gonna happen that fast with this young a team given who we'd have to contend with in the near future. You can't really be contender or bust when we don't even know if our big 3 is good enough to be a perennial contender.
I'm certainly not suggesting we could, or even attempt to become a contender during this FA season. That's not my point. But you kind of hit on my point when you say we should be preparing to contend in 3 years. I don't necessarily think it has to take that long, but that's the right idea. Making the playoffs is going to be a goal for us next season. It just shouldn't consume us as we shape the roster. There are much bigger fish to fry down the road.
A guy like PJ Tucker wouldn't affect the shape of the team down the road. He'd be on a two or three year deal to help give us a boost to the playoffs and could be a trade chip as salary filler for a star in 2-3 years as an expiring if we could manage to line that up because we won't have the cap space to sign someone. I think it's way too early to know what we really need to contend, but we know what we need to make the playoffs and that's more shooting, defense and toughness and he provides the latter 2 and some spot up shooting. We're talking 15-20 minutes a night off the bench because Zach and Wiggins will still be playing 35+ a night. That's just who Thibs is as coach.
You've talked about signing a guy like Green from Memphis, but he's an RFA so he will cost almost twice as much as Tucker to sign away from Memphis and what happens if he's a flop or doesn't play the same here as he did in Memphis? You have no cap space for 4 whole years on a chance. I think you don't dedicate years and cap space unless you are getting a star. Otherwise keep it shorter and cheaper and I don't think Tucker is gonna get more than 10/year.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:No one has championed the need for toughness more than me. I've said it repeatedly, we need shooting and toughness. But my hope for this team isn't just to make the playoffs. If that's really your end game, then i can certainly understand why you would want to blow a large portion of your cap space on Tucker. He might help you squeak into the 7th or 8th spot. But in my opinion all of our moves should be made with the idea of contending in mind. And if you do that, the playoff appearances are going to come as a natural byproduct of those moves.
The only people we could sign and maybe become a contender would be CP3 and Blake. Nobody else gets us to that level because no other free agents in this class have been at that level let alone with 3 22 year olds as their running mates. Contending off this free agency period just isn't realistic unless we land CP3 or Blake. We're still way too young to contend with the likes of GS, SA or Houston in the next 3 years and that's not even factoring needing to beat Lebron if we got there. We should be focused on making the playoffs, building continuity and preparing to contend in 3 years, not within the next 3 years because it's just not gonna happen that fast with this young a team given who we'd have to contend with in the near future. You can't really be contender or bust when we don't even know if our big 3 is good enough to be a perennial contender.
I'm certainly not suggesting we could, or even attempt to become a contender during this FA season. That's not my point. But you kind of hit on my point when you say we should be preparing to contend in 3 years. I don't necessarily think it has to take that long, but that's the right idea. Making the playoffs is going to be a goal for us next season. It just shouldn't consume us as we shape the roster. There are much bigger fish to fry down the road.
A guy like PJ Tucker wouldn't affect the shape of the team down the road. He'd be on a two or three year deal to help give us a boost to the playoffs and could be a trade chip as salary filler for a star in 2-3 years as an expiring if we could manage to line that up because we won't have the cap space to sign someone. I think it's way too early to know what we really need to contend, but we know what we need to make the playoffs and that's more shooting, defense and toughness and he provides the latter 2 and some spot up shooting. We're talking 15-20 minutes a night off the bench because Zach and Wiggins will still be playing 35+ a night. That's just who Thibs is as coach.
You've talked about signing a guy like Green from Memphis, but he's an RFA so he will cost almost twice as much as Tucker to sign away from Memphis and what happens if he's a flop or doesn't play the same here as he did in Memphis? You have no cap space for 4 whole years on a chance. I think you don't dedicate years and cap space unless you are getting a star. Otherwise keep it shorter and cheaper and I don't think Tucker is gonna get more than 10/year.
Yeah, I like taking a chance on Green much more than taking on a rapidly declining Tucker. I guess you have to trust what your scouts tell you and make educated decisions based on it. I know Gallo has a player option for next season, has anybody heard what he intends to do? The more I think about it, he's the guy I'd really like to get.
I can't get really behind Gallo for the price he'll command on the open market. He provides scoring and floor spacing at a premium position (SF/PF), which is nice, but I fail to see how he helps fix any of the Wolves problems, such as team defense and rebounding on the defensive end. Gallo is weak at both facets of the game. That's not even mentioning his inability to stay healthy for more than 60 or so games per year.
