Q12543 wrote:Monster, If you look at the upper body of Tatum vs. the upper body of Isaac, one does not look like the other. I think Tatum's weight as reflected in DX is low, since it was from 2016. That dude has big broad shoulders, and even if his weight is still around 205 lbs., it's very clear to me that his frame can carry at least another 20 lbs. of muscle on it.
I was honestly looking for that difference yesterday. But after looking at pics I don't see that big difference. People compare Isaac to Ingram and a Isaac looks bigger than him and I still like Ingram. Let's say there is a difference though. Watching Isaac they guy dunks and his feet are like inches off the floor. Tatum has plenty of length but I think watching both guys Isaac does have a legit advantage there. We can only go off what we have so it is what it is. I jyat see a guy with that much length that's still a pretty good athlete with legit skills PLUS actually rebounded and blocked shots like a big and yeah sounds pretty good to me. At this point it come down to as long as we don't end up with Markkanen I'll be ok. I'm not sure how I would feel about Dennis Smith or Monk though and that's regardless of who else is on the roster.
Boy, we must be looking at two different sets of comparisons when it comes to Tatum's frame vs. Isaac's frame.
As for length, you are absolutely right that Isaac has a big advantage and his college stats says a lot about his ability to put that length to good use.
Q12543 wrote:Boy, we must be looking at two different sets of comparisons when it comes to Tatum's frame vs. Isaac's frame.
As for length, you are absolutely right that Isaac has a big advantage and his college stats says a lot about his ability to put that length to good use.
Maybe we can figure out what each of us are seeing/looking at. Are you referring to the broad shoulders or the muscle they have currently? I'm looking at the bulk (or lack thereof lol). I agree Tatum has broader shoulders, but look at Otto Porter. Broad shoulders...looks too me a lot like the guy that came into the league a few years ago and I like Porter. Just sayin.
Abe -- Love this line from your paragraph on the Kings: "The only caveat here is Vivek and Divac. Nothing is off the table. They're idiots." Good stuff.
I think your analysis is good. But I'm guessing that Isaac will have every lottery team's front office drooling over his potential after having him in for workouts and watching more video. So I don't see him being available at #7. I hope I'm wrong because I have a man-crush on him as a Wolves prospect. A guard who had a late growth spurt like Scottie Pippen. He now has a guard's skills in a long frame with a 9'1" overhead reach -- longer than a lot of NBA PFs. I disagree with those who see him as a stretch 4. I see him more as a SF who can play the PF position.
lipoli390 wrote:Abe -- Love this line from your paragraph on the Kings: "The only caveat here is Vivek and Divac. Nothing is off the table. They're idiots." Good stuff.
I think your analysis is good. But I'm guessing that Isaac will have every lottery team's front office drooling over his potential after having him in for workouts and watching more video. So I don't see him being available at #7. I hope I'm wrong because I have a man-crush on him as a Wolves prospect. A guard who had a late growth spurt like Scottie Pippen. He now has a guard's skills in a long frame with a 9'1" overhead reach -- longer than a lot of NBA PFs. I disagree with those who see him as a stretch 4. I see him more as a SF who can play the PF position.
What are your thoughts on Zach Collins?
From what I saw of Collins, I liked him.
I did think he had questionable hands though when I watched him.
But how does he fit with KAT long-term? I'm an advocate of playing smaller rather than bigger with KAT.
lipoli390 wrote:Abe -- Love this line from your paragraph on the Kings: "The only caveat here is Vivek and Divac. Nothing is off the table. They're idiots." Good stuff.
I think your analysis is good. But I'm guessing that Isaac will have every lottery team's front office drooling over his potential after having him in for workouts and watching more video. So I don't see him being available at #7. I hope I'm wrong because I have a man-crush on him as a Wolves prospect. A guard who had a late growth spurt like Scottie Pippen. He now has a guard's skills in a long frame with a 9'1" overhead reach -- longer than a lot of NBA PFs. I disagree with those who see him as a stretch 4. I see him more as a SF who can play the PF position.
What are your thoughts on Zach Collins?
From what I saw of Collins, I liked him.
I did think he had questionable hands though when I watched him.
But how does he fit with KAT long-term? I'm an advocate of playing smaller rather than bigger with KAT.
Interesting point on his hands. Bad hands are a huge red flag for a big man. I noticed that Collins had relatively small hands for a big. But you never know. I remember a front office exec telling me that McHale took Pek over D'Andre Jordan in the 2nd round mainly because he thought Jordan had bad hands.
lipoli390 wrote:Abe -- Love this line from your paragraph on the Kings: "The only caveat here is Vivek and Divac. Nothing is off the table. They're idiots." Good stuff.
I think your analysis is good. But I'm guessing that Isaac will have every lottery team's front office drooling over his potential after having him in for workouts and watching more video. So I don't see him being available at #7. I hope I'm wrong because I have a man-crush on him as a Wolves prospect. A guard who had a late growth spurt like Scottie Pippen. He now has a guard's skills in a long frame with a 9'1" overhead reach -- longer than a lot of NBA PFs. I disagree with those who see him as a stretch 4. I see him more as a SF who can play the PF position.
What are your thoughts on Zach Collins?
From what I saw of Collins, I liked him.
I did think he had questionable hands though when I watched him.
But how does he fit with KAT long-term? I'm an advocate of playing smaller rather than bigger with KAT.
But what if you have two big guys that can also play small, meaning guard people on the perimeter, hedge and recover, and contain ball handlers? I think KAT already shows the potential to do this, not sure about Collins at the NBA level, but one of his strengths is his mobility. One way you beat small ball is by having big guys capable of defending it, while at the same time beat up the other team on the glass and in the paint.
lipoli390 wrote:Abe -- Love this line from your paragraph on the Kings: "The only caveat here is Vivek and Divac. Nothing is off the table. They're idiots." Good stuff.
I think your analysis is good. But I'm guessing that Isaac will have every lottery team's front office drooling over his potential after having him in for workouts and watching more video. So I don't see him being available at #7. I hope I'm wrong because I have a man-crush on him as a Wolves prospect. A guard who had a late growth spurt like Scottie Pippen. He now has a guard's skills in a long frame with a 9'1" overhead reach -- longer than a lot of NBA PFs. I disagree with those who see him as a stretch 4. I see him more as a SF who can play the PF position.
What are your thoughts on Zach Collins?
From what I saw of Collins, I liked him.
I did think he had questionable hands though when I watched him.
But how does he fit with KAT long-term? I'm an advocate of playing smaller rather than bigger with KAT.
But what if you have two big guys that can also play small, meaning guard people on the perimeter, hedge and recover, and contain ball handlers? I think KAT already shows the potential to do this, not sure about Collins at the NBA level, but one of his strengths is his mobility. One way you beat small ball is by having big guys capable of defending it, while at the same time beat up the other team on the glass and in the paint.
(I do think it's a legit question though).
I was thinking the same thing, Q. I remember our win last season against the Warriors on their court. The key was having KAT come out and guard Curry. He was very effective against Curry. I credit Sam for that strategy and I question Thibs for his failure to do the same. KAT is deceptively quick and mobile and I like him guarding wings or guards in certain situations. I also like the idea of running the offensive through him from the outside. We should make much better use of of mobility and give him some relief from always getting beat up down low on every possession. He's our second best 3-point shooter and we should remember that he won the NBA allstar skills competition a year ago. My ideal would be to get a big, strong shot-blocking center like D'Andre Jordan and move KAT to the PF position. But an alternative would be adding another long, mobile big like Zach Collins. We'd have two long, highly mobile guys who can play both big-man positions and who would be mobile enough to create mismatches against smaller guys on both ends. We're never going to beat the Warriors by trying to be a better version of them.
Lip it's easy to get caught up in the success of a game or 2 or a few plays.
Towns can switch onto Curry. Well Love did that a couple times about a year ago. He can guard anyone!!! Bazz went up against Draymond a little over a year ago and went for 30+. He should be playing small ball PF!! Obvious hyperbole here but I think you get what I am saying. Your point stands that Towns SHOULD be mobile enough to do some of the things you suggest. The reality is that we are 2 years in and he has looked better defensively when he plays as a C that gets switched out to a different player. That's something to consider.
Now another thing to consider is I listened to a podcast from "Raised by Wolves" from a while ago and they had a writer (Ian Levy) that used to contribute for hardwood paradoxism and so think he writes for some other online site now. Anyway he mentioned how he really didn't think the Wolves were going to be as good as many people hyped them to be. He thought their ceiling was competing and maybe getting the 8th seed. One of his main reasons was he said Thibs defensive schemes and concepts are very complex and they are not something you just throw in with a couple weeks of training camp and guys get it especially with the youth of the roster. I'm not sure how great of a basketball mind this guy was but a lot of his takes seemed pretty well thought out and if he didn't know something he said so which I appreciate.
So with that in mind it makes sense why Towns may have looked lost at times right? Some of the things he wasn't doing were fairly simple. Some probably were less so. I feel really confident that at some point regardless of scheme or what players are around him Towns is gonna be well above average defensive player. Unlike his offense Inthink there is a question about where he will ultimately end up fitting as a defender.
I'm not against adding Zach collins to go next to him either. This new NBA makes things a bit tricky though and like I have said before I think Thibs and Layden (and a lot of us here did they same) miscalculated how we needed rebounding and size when we needed some versatile combo forwards. I think they thought they could play Rush there some but they also kinda needed him to play as a wing. Bazz didn't see the time there that it seems to make sense to try there as well. Cam was a guy that wanted to sign James Johnson last offseason. That would have been a solid pickup and probably would have helped a decent amount. Hopefully they are thinking either with the curve or as you are suggesting ahead of the curve with guys that can play with each other and be good enough with quick feet and then hurt the other team with length on the boards and on the offensive end.
