TeamRicky wrote:Brightside, I don't know why you think Isaac is a 3 or 4 year project? If its because he's skinny--Durant, Paul George, Kawhi, Wiggins etc. were all skinny, and Isaac will fill out. He's long and he's got a great outside shot with a high release point. He also is a better defender than any of our wings right now. He's already a very good rebounder. He's said to have a very high basketball IQ. He'll be in the rotation as backup 3 or 4 or both and I think he'd start in year 2. Some thought Towns would take a few years to contribute too. The nice thing about Isaac is he has a very diverse set of skills and that will get him in the lineup pretty quickly. Tatum and Jackson also are pretty polished guys. Any of those three guys will be in the rotation before the end of year one and contributing. I do like Crowder, but if we can land one of these three guys, I'd prefer to do that. Keep the window long and the rookie contract will keep our payroll down so that we can add other pieces.
C'mon. Durant, George, Wiggins, and Leonard were/are in another stratosphere when it comes to comparing basketball skill and sheer athletic ability with Isaac. It's not even close.
Isaac has an average shot. He's not a great shooter. He might become one but again, it's a projection. I'd rather take the sure thing when it comes to shooting (Monk and Markannen). Isaac will struggle defensively until he adds weight, which is another projection. Remember when Corey Brewer was going to add weight? Anthony Randolph? List goes on and on. Isaac is a skinny 4 that can't play the 4 right now due to lack of strength. He'll have to play the 3 early on and I don't think he's quick enough laterally to guard the SFs in the NBA. He won't provide the impact we are looking for.
Isaac is projected to go earlier than where George and Leonard were taken and he's a much better prospect than Brewer or Randolph. He also can guard the three better than any of our current wings. He has quick feet and length and a high basketball IQ and willingness to play hard on defense. Markannen and Monk are much more one dimensional players and are not the best fits here.
Brewer and Randolph's lack of success had very little to do with how skinny they were or weren't and Randolph did fill out plenty. Brewer just never got better (and wasn't actually that lengthy) and Randolph...um just wasn't good despite having all the talent.
I can't remeber where I gleaned the info but supposedly a number of basketball folks say Monk is a SG. He is 6'3" in shoes and has 6'3" wingspan. That's ok for a PG but if he does have to play SG...well that's pretty undersized and would have to be a concern. You can bring up physical weaknesses for a lot of these prospects depending on how you view them.
Thanks for the entertaining read guys. If the Wolves could get Butler via trading Ricky and our pick, even as a Rubio guy I would do it in an instant. I don't think we can, but that's another topic.
Here's my question... I keep reading people talking about our pick. Can anyone explain to my why we'd be allowed to trade our pick when we owe a 1st round pick to ...Atlanta I believe it is? Lottery protected each of the next few years before turning into a 2nd rounder? If that's true, and we are in the lottery this year, that means our next year's 1st is currently locked up. Per my recollection, we can't trade 1st round picks in back to back years. I must be missing/forgetting something, please help :)
mrhockey89 wrote:Thanks for the entertaining read guys. If the Wolves could get Butler via trading Ricky and our pick, even as a Rubio guy I would do it in an instant. I don't think we can, but that's another topic.
Here's my question... I keep reading people talking about our pick. Can anyone explain to my why we'd be allowed to trade our pick when we owe a 1st round pick to ...Atlanta I believe it is? Lottery protected each of the next few years before turning into a 2nd rounder? If that's true, and we are in the lottery this year, that means our next year's 1st is currently locked up. Per my recollection, we can't trade 1st round picks in back to back years. I must be missing/forgetting something, please help :)
I can help you. It's more of a technicality, during draft day say that the wolves did the trade you posted Rubio and our pick for Butler. Pretend the Bulls wanted Jackson. The commissioner would say the minnesota timberwolves select josh Jackson the wolves can trade his rights to the Bulls because it is no longer our pick anymore he is our player.
We were not allowed to trade the pick during the season because of the back to back pick trade and we cannot trade a pick until our 2021 1st. Because of the payne trade. (Alt gets a 1st lottery protected and if the wolves don't make the playoffs the next 2 years that 1st becomes 2 2nds in 2020.) But we still can't trade our 2020 1st because we might have to give Atlanta our 1st in 2019 and you can't trade back to back 1st like you said.
The payne trade is one of the worst trades in franchise history not only does payne suck, we can't add cheap contracts with our pick or possibility a better player. It also eliminates a asset we could use until 2021. Really screwed up the flexibility the wolves could of had for a player who couldn't even get extended to his 4th year of his rookie contact
Thanks kek, I was wondering if it had to do with the draft-and-trade scenario. My life has been full of a lot of other things this year (though I've still watched most Wolves games), so I couldn't remember if that was allowed when trading back to back picks.
Agreed on the Payne trade. High energy guy with lots of athleticism, and I want to root for him, but I just don't see how he becomes even a legitimate rotation player in this league. I literally cringe when I see him on the floor.
mrhockey89 wrote:Thanks kek, I was wondering if it had to do with the draft-and-trade scenario. My life has been full of a lot of other things this year (though I've still watched most Wolves games), so I couldn't remember if that was allowed when trading back to back picks.
Agreed on the Payne trade. High energy guy with lots of athleticism, and I want to root for him, but I just don't see how he becomes even a legitimate rotation player in this league. I literally cringe when I see him on the floor.
I think the Jaric trade ended up being the worst Wolves trade I can think of because it was part of what started the franchise spiral downwards.
This season Payne...actually looked competent out there when he played. It's a small sample size but stats show he was more useful as well. I found myself wanting him to get more chances to play (not too many though Lol) instead of cringing and I was a guy that was absolutely in favor of him getting cut before the season started. If we could bring him back cheap for an end of the bench sort of developmental player so would actually be in favor of doing so depending on what other moves the Wolves make.
Payne is one of these players where you wonder if he had the right coaching and the right environment, could he have been an effective 7th or 8th man hustle big? The problem offensively is that whenever he puts it on the floor, death and mayhem ensue. So my first piece of advice to him would be to never, ever, ever dribble the ball. Second, like seemingly all of our bigs, he leaves his feet too much defensively, biting on pump fakes and trying to block everything in sight. So my second piece of advice would be to never, ever leave your feet until the ball is in the air.
Two simple things.....you wonder if anyone ever worked with him on this stuff?
I think the Jaric trade ended up being the worst Wolves trade I can think of because it was part of what started the franchise spiral downwards.
Greta point. Did we give up Cassell and a pick for him?
I remember being very very confident in 3 things between 2003 - 2010.
1. Troy Hudson would not make the leap as a starting PG. In fact, he was overrated. You can't run the PnR and shoot a 22 footer EVERY time.
2. Rashad McCants would try to steal the soul of every Wolves fan. He might have been the devil.
3. Marko Jaric was a bad move. The summer the Wolves traded for him, his national team was supposed to be really good. But they fell apart at either the World Championships... or Olympics? What I remember is that he was the starting PG and played terribly. He completely shit the bed and his backup outplayed him. How did Jaric respond? He made a bunch of entitled comments and then fought his backup. I called it then... he was a bust. He did do better off the court with the ladies though...
Q12543 wrote:Payne is one of these players where you wonder if he had the right coaching and the right environment, could he have been an effective 7th or 8th man hustle big? The problem offensively is that whenever he puts it on the floor, death and mayhem ensue. So my first piece of advice to him would be to never, ever, ever dribble the ball. Second, like seemingly all of our bigs, he leaves his feet too much defensively, biting on pump fakes and trying to block everything in sight. So my second piece of advice would be to never, ever leave your feet until the ball is in the air.
Two simple things.....you wonder if anyone ever worked with him on this stuff?
I like your breakdown Q. I'll just throw this out there...its a small sample but is TO rate went down this year while amazingly his usage rate went up. The foul rate went way UP though but he seemed to be more playing the role of tough energy guy when he came in and his body did seem to look a bit bigger. He only played 18 games so you know its just 18 games but he had a per of 14.4. That's plenty decent. I can't shake the fact that they played him over Jordan Hill and heck played him at all. His skill set makes alot of sense in the new NBA. I still think if they can bring him back cheap they should consider it and yes I can't believe I keep saying that. The guy plays hard and communicates on defense plus he has lots of length and moves well. He has a year in the system already. Maybe the Wolves end up with other better players and ones with more upside so it doesn't make sense to bring him back, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. I'd be interested to see him with Dunn Tyus and the draft pick in SL and see what he does. I feel like an optimistic homer about him (realize I am just hoping for a deep bench energy guy), but he really did look better this year even with the issues you mention.
Monster, the sample size is too small to take away anything from last season with Payne. I'm not denying the fact he might actually be better, but we really don't know based on the quantity of minutes he played and the fact it was usually garbage time.
His contract is expired and roster spot available. I think Thibs would much rather have a vet minimum type big fill that slot or a promising 2nd rounder.
