Zach and Andrew

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

So I saw something about that infamous ESPN adjusted plus/minus stat that I hate...

Wiggins is #322 in the league... and dead last among SFs with that stat. Still question its validity, but I'd prefer a loftier ranking nonetheless.


Edit: The report seems to be wrong. He's ranked #66 among SFs... so there are 14 below him.

Yeah, I saw that too. He's never done well in that stat and this year is no different. While I think the stat can be noisy and show some weird outcomes at times, it's generally directionly correct.

A few other findings:

- Rubio is usually loved by RPM. But we've seen Rubio's drop off in play this year on both ends of the court and sure enough, he's dropped considerably in RPM. Makes sense.

- Dunn doesn't do too terrible in RPM - he's ranked 30th among PGs. Why? Defense. He's 4th ranked in DRPM. That actually kinda passes the eye test. He has been terrific defensively, but awful on offense, where he ranks 57th among all PGs.

- KAT is ranked 2nd in offensive RPM for Centers, but dead last among Centers in defense. My only quibble is that he isn't a Center on defense since Dieng checks most Centers. Either way, once again, it kinda makes sense. We've been terrible defensively so a lot of our guys should rank low in this area.

- Dieng actually does quite well on DRPM - even more than my eyes tell me - so this is the one that surprised me a bit, but in the opposite way that Wiggins surprised me. Wiggins is 80th in DRPM among SFs. I realize he hasn't been very good, but he doesn't seem THAT bad.

[MikkeMan]

They're both 21 and they are both going to be monsters in this league. I'm not trading either unless I'm getting a superstar PG back. I don't care about individual rebounding stats. Are we losing games because our SF isn't get 4 more rebounds per game? No. They both need to start and play with each other and build the continuity that pays dividends down the line. There's too much focus on now because we're all disappointed in this season and want to turn it around now. That's not the right play. The right play is to keep building continuity with the big 3 and shift pieces around them when needed.

Well said. As long as our team rebounding numbers are solid I could care less whether Andrew averages 4 or 6 boards per game.

Our team rebounding unfortunately isn't good right now, but I think everyone (with the exception of Dieng) is capable of helping more on that end so I don't put it all on Wiggins. That responsibility falls on everyone and not just Wiggins.

Based on stats Wolves are currently 4th best rebounding team in whole NBA. Behind only Denver, Houston and Chicago. So I think their overall team rebounding has been just fine even tough their defensive rebounding has been little below average.

What stats are you looking at because ESPN has our total team rebounds per game at 27th in the league so I find it hard to believe we are a top 5 rebounding team by percentage, etc. when we are bringing down the 27th most boards per game. That would mean almost every team we play has a sub-par rebounding game against us.

Q already pointed high FG% for other team that contributes to the low amount of overall rebounds in Wolves games. Other things worth to mention are high turnover ratio for opponent and high amount of free throws for opponent. Both mean that there is less defensive rebounds available in Wolves games. Same things affect the amount of offensive rebounds as well. Wolves shoot a lot free throws with pretty good accuracy and they have quite high amount of turnovers, both will mean that there is less offensive rebounds available.

[MikkeMan]

Khans, The reason why we are so low in total rebounds is because relative to other teams, our offense makes a fairly good rate of baskets AND our defense yields a fairly high rate of baskets. Therefore, in games we play, there are fewer total misses on both ends of the court, therefore fewer rebounds on both sides.

That's why it's important to look at rebound %. We are 4th in offensive rebounding % and 17th in defensive rebounding %. One may say that being 4th is a good thing, but I wonder how often us crashing the offensive glass leads to easy points in transition?

Yes, there are very few teams with decent defensive rating and high offensive rebounding %. Currently only Chicago and Miami rank top 10 in both categories. Play by play stats show that Wolves give 7th highest amount transition points with 2nd highest ppp value. (1.2 points per possession) So it seems that good offensive rebounding stats come in case of Wolves at the expense of transition defense.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Khans, The reason why we are so low in total rebounds is because relative to other teams, our offense makes a fairly good rate of baskets AND our defense yields a fairly high rate of baskets. Therefore, in games we play, there are fewer total misses on both ends of the court, therefore fewer rebounds on both sides.

That's why it's important to look at rebound %. We are 4th in offensive rebounding % and 17th in defensive rebounding %. One may say that being 4th is a good thing, but I wonder how often us crashing the offensive glass leads to easy points in transition?

Yes, there are very few teams with decent defensive rating and high offensive rebounding %. Currently only Chicago and Miami rank top 10 in both categories. Play by play stats show that Wolves give 7th highest amount transition points with 2nd highest ppp value. (1.2 points per possession) So it seems that good offensive rebounding stats come in case of Wolves at the expense of transition defense.

Yes, I think some teams' front office analytics departments have come to this conclusion and the result is that many more coaches are now actively discouraging crashing the offensive glass, unless you really are already inside and in great position. Getting back on defense and matching up appropriately is way more important.

The #1 metric this team needs to drive down is Opponent eFG%. One way to do that is to give up fewer transition dunks and wide open 3's, which may mean we chase fewer O-Boards.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

So I saw something about that infamous ESPN adjusted plus/minus stat that I hate...

Wiggins is #322 in the league... and dead last among SFs with that stat. Still question its validity, but I'd prefer a loftier ranking nonetheless.


Edit: The report seems to be wrong. He's ranked #66 among SFs... so there are 14 below him.

Yeah, I saw that too. He's never done well in that stat and this year is no different. While I think the stat can be noisy and show some weird outcomes at times, it's generally directionly correct.

A few other findings:

- Rubio is usually loved by RPM. But we've seen Rubio's drop off in play this year on both ends of the court and sure enough, he's dropped considerably in RPM. Makes sense.

- Dunn doesn't do too terrible in RPM - he's ranked 30th among PGs. Why? Defense. He's 4th ranked in DRPM. That actually kinda passes the eye test. He has been terrific defensively, but awful on offense, where he ranks 57th among all PGs.

- KAT is ranked 2nd in offensive RPM for Centers, but dead last among Centers in defense. My only quibble is that he isn't a Center on defense since Dieng checks most Centers. Either way, once again, it kinda makes sense. We've been terrible defensively so a lot of our guys should rank low in this area.

- Dieng actually does quite well on DRPM - even more than my eyes tell me - so this is the one that surprised me a bit, but in the opposite way that Wiggins surprised me. Wiggins is 80th in DRPM among SFs. I realize he hasn't been very good, but he doesn't seem THAT bad.

I think Gorgui's defense might be the biggest area of difference I have with your normally reliable takes, Q...I generally like his defense, at least relative to the ineptness around him. Like almost everyone else on our team, he's not the defensive force we thought he might be coming out of college, but I think he is adequate and could be very good if he were a little stronger. Jim Pete often praises his pick and roll defense, but again, it might be because he is comparing him to the low bar KAT sets.