Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:Let's not forget Gorgui Dieng's comments last season as well.

"Wigg is a great basketball player. He cannot pick and choose when he wants to play. We need him to play like this every night."

It's been said already, though. You cannot make a player want to be great. They either have that desire and motivation within or they don't. From all that we've been able to gather over the course of four NBA seasons, Andrew Wiggins does not seem to have that fire burning inside of him. The lack of tangible improvement, and unexplainable regression in areas, supports this idea as well as the basketball community, including past and current teammates, calling him out for inconsistent effort. Production is one thing, effort is another. It's easier to cope and understand rises and falls in production, but lack of effort is inexcusable. Some of us knew these were legitimate problems pre
-draft, some during his rookie season, some later than that, and some are just realizing it.

The guy has all the talent in the world and will almost certainly fail to become an All-Star player in this league. It's a shame, really.

I have always thought the role to redemption was for him to be a shot maker. But as Doper said, the shots aren't going in enough. If you aren't going to bust your ass consistently, but you make your open 3's, free throws, and exploit mis-matches, then we could probably live with that. But the fact is he does neither very well. Sad indeed.

Yes. But intensity and competitive drive are ultimately a big part of consistently making open shots, hitting free throws and exploiting mismatches. It's a mindset. The great players zero in and seemingly "will" their shots into the basket. So the "ball not dropping" issue can't be separated from Andrew's motivation/motor issue. Even Andrew's bad hands and loose handle could be attributed in part to a lack of intensity. Players with competitive fire grab the ball on a rebound like their life depends on it. Wiggins doesn't do that.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:Let's not forget Gorgui Dieng's comments last season as well.

"Wigg is a great basketball player. He cannot pick and choose when he wants to play. We need him to play like this every night."

It's been said already, though. You cannot make a player want to be great. They either have that desire and motivation within or they don't. From all that we've been able to gather over the course of four NBA seasons, Andrew Wiggins does not seem to have that fire burning inside of him. The lack of tangible improvement, and unexplainable regression in areas, supports this idea as well as the basketball community, including past and current teammates, calling him out for inconsistent effort. Production is one thing, effort is another. It's easier to cope and understand rises and falls in production, but lack of effort is inexcusable. Some of us knew these were legitimate problems pre
-draft, some during his rookie season, some later than that, and some are just realizing it.

The guy has all the talent in the world and will almost certainly fail to become an All-Star player in this league. It's a shame, really.

I have always thought the role to redemption was for him to be a shot maker. But as Doper said, the shots aren't going in enough. If you aren't going to bust your ass consistently, but you make your open 3's, free throws, and exploit mis-matches, then we could probably live with that. But the fact is he does neither very well. Sad indeed.

Yes. But intensity and competitive drive are ultimately a big part of consistently making open shots, hitting free throws and exploiting mismatches. It's a mindset. The great players zero in and seemingly "will" their shots into the basket. So the "ball not dropping" issue can't be separated from Andrew's motivation/motor issue. Even Andrew's bad hands and loose handle could be attributed in part to a lack of intensity. Players with competitive fire grab the ball on a rebound like their life depends on it. Wiggins doesn't do that.

This is a unique approach on sports psychology Lip. Not sure I buy it, but I think it's interesting. On the flip side of this idea, there have been a lot of very intense basketball players with a lot of "will" that couldn't shoot. My point is that if his shots were falling we'd all be talking about how much more his intensity has improved, which I think highlights that perception of effort is linked to success. He still slumps on offense. It's been too bad because it's causing people to ignore his improvements on D and team play.

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:Let's not forget Gorgui Dieng's comments last season as well.

"Wigg is a great basketball player. He cannot pick and choose when he wants to play. We need him to play like this every night."

It's been said already, though. You cannot make a player want to be great. They either have that desire and motivation within or they don't. From all that we've been able to gather over the course of four NBA seasons, Andrew Wiggins does not seem to have that fire burning inside of him. The lack of tangible improvement, and unexplainable regression in areas, supports this idea as well as the basketball community, including past and current teammates, calling him out for inconsistent effort. Production is one thing, effort is another. It's easier to cope and understand rises and falls in production, but lack of effort is inexcusable. Some of us knew these were legitimate problems pre
-draft, some during his rookie season, some later than that, and some are just realizing it.

The guy has all the talent in the world and will almost certainly fail to become an All-Star player in this league. It's a shame, really.

I have always thought the role to redemption was for him to be a shot maker. But as Doper said, the shots aren't going in enough. If you aren't going to bust your ass consistently, but you make your open 3's, free throws, and exploit mis-matches, then we could probably live with that. But the fact is he does neither very well. Sad indeed.

Yes. But intensity and competitive drive are ultimately a big part of consistently making open shots, hitting free throws and exploiting mismatches. It's a mindset. The great players zero in and seemingly "will" their shots into the basket. So the "ball not dropping" issue can't be separated from Andrew's motivation/motor issue. Even Andrew's bad hands and loose handle could be attributed in part to a lack of intensity. Players with competitive fire grab the ball on a rebound like their life depends on it. Wiggins doesn't do that.

This is a unique approach on sports psychology Lip. Not sure I buy it, but I think it's interesting. On the flip side of this idea, there have been a lot of very intense basketball players with a lot of "will" that couldn't shoot. My point is that if his shots were falling we'd all be talking about how much more his intensity has improved, which I think highlights that perception of effort is linked to success. He still slumps on offense. It's been too bad because it's causing people to ignore his improvements on D and team play.

Doper -- I'm sure there have been intense players who didn't shoot well. Ricky Rubio comes to mind. But the thing about Wiggins is that we know he actually can shoot and SHOULD be a good shooter. The form is good the talent is there. So for him it's a matter of intensity or focus. The lack of focus is particularly apparent in Wiggins' free throw shooting. He's never been as good as he should be (as good as Butler and KAT are for example), but as we all know he's regressed to becoming a really bad free throw shooter this season. His poor free throw shooting strikes me as a function of Andrew's lack of intensity or focus.

Let's consider Rubio again. He's never been a good perimeter shooter. His shooting percentage, as well as form, has been bad throughout his career both in the NBA and before. That's not too surprising for Ricky since, growing up playing Euro ball as a virtuoso playmaker, he didn't shoot much and wasn't expected to score. He just never developed the muscle memory for shooting as a young player. Yet, he's always been a consistently great free throw shooter in spite of a flat shot that you hate to see in any shooter. His intensity and focus at the line give him a precision his foul shot that makes it highly accurate and consistent even though his shooting mechanics are generally terrible and he's never been able to develop his perimeter shot in the flow of the game. The contrast with Wiggins is telling. Wiggins has been a scorer his entire life. That's been his bread and butter since he started playing the game. Not surprisingly, he has terrific shooting mechanics long with great elevation, length and extension. Yet, his accuracy is highly variable and unpredictable. To me that's a lack of intensity and focus. Obviously, I can't prove it, but I can't find another convincing explanation. And we've seen examples of Andrew's lack of intensity and focus in other aspects of his game, including rebounding numbers far lower than they should be given his length and athleticism.