Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden0916 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Did Cole or Bazz get any minutes?

No, and thank goodness they didn't or this might have been uglier.

That's kinda my point with your Smart argument. Somehow other teams are developing bench guys but we don't even try Cole for a few games or give Bazz a second chance.

BizarroJerry wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Did Cole or Bazz get any minutes?

No, and thank goodness they didn't or this might have been uglier.

That's kinda my point with your Smart argument. Somehow other teams are developing bench guys but we don't even try Cole for a few games or give Bazz a second chance.

What do you think Thibs has been doing with Georges-Hunt? He's attempting to bring him along and I think he envisions using him more later in the year.

Shabazz Muhammad is what he is already. His deficiencies are well known and they greatly outweigh whatever positive there is about his game. Basically, he just sucks.

You can copy/paste the same thing for Cole Aldrich, though because of his position and overall size he can have some good minutes here and there.

Either way, neither are game-changers.

DVR Summary:

- I'm gonna really really try to not make this all about how frustrating Andrew Wiggins is. But... damn. That game vs. the Lakers earlier this week... the one where ALL of us commented in the first few minutes of the game that Wiggins "looked" like he was energetic? Fluke. Or damning. You choose. I'm going with the latter.

I'm 87% McCants with this guy right now. So help me gawd... and pray for your souls... if it reaches 100%. Scorched earth destruction. Seriously.

- The stretch where Wiggins helped Boston to a 12 - 3 run in the 3rd with 4 consecutive bad plays was documented in real time on page 4 of this thread.

Ok... enough about Wiggins...

For about 3 minutes... these were the lineups:
7'0" KAT
6'11" Dieng
6'10" Bjelica
6'8" Butler
6'5" Crawford

vs.

6'2" Rozier
6'3" Irving
6'4" Smart
6'7" Yabusele
6'10" Baynes

Guess who blinked first? The Wolves. Probably because Boston (despite the huge size disparity) got seemingly every rebound between these two lineups and held the Wolves scoreless. To be far... that was mostly because despite having the size advantage at EVERY position, the Wolves settled for ONLY long twos with these lineups on the court. What the fuck?

- There was a play in the first half where the ball went to the ground under the Wolves hoop. Baynes was there and dove on the ground in-between three Wolves players. To be fair... the Wolves sort of bent their knees trying to grab the ball. Ugh.

- Boston is a model franchise right now. They work HARD. And it has to be a culture thing because it's universal. Smart. Rozier. Brown. Tatum. Even Irving... who has never been known for defense or grittiness has bought in like never before in his career. They shot 6 - 36 on three pointers and won pretty easily. Tenacious.

- And they might get the Lakers pick (along with Gordon Hayward) for next season.

- Why did I switch to Minnesota as my #1 team in 1989? Oops.

I didn't watch the game because I suspected the Wolves would piss me off. Apparently, I made the right choice. After Wiggins teased us with 9 rebounds and 4 assists while making all but one free throw against the Lakers, he's been his old self the past two games with a total of 5 rebounds and 2 assists in those two games combined. He hit half his free throws tonight and I don't recall whether he even had any free throw attempts against the Nets.

But this can't be all about Wiggins. Reading Abe's post and his description of Baynes diving to get the ball surrounded by 3 Wolves' players with bent knees is an all-too familiar sight for those of us who've been watching this team.

From the box score, it would appear that KAT was the only Wolves player who produced. Gibson's 8 points and 3 rebounds further confirms the fatigue I've seen in him the past few games. Wiggins was Wiggins. We'll see how this team responds Saturday night at home.

I have two ideas with Wiggins. Either pull him from the starting lineup and drastically limit his minutes, or drop a couple of white crosses in his gatorade before the game.

This guy is not focused. How about a little coaching intervention. Maybe show him some game tape of other younger players making a fourth of what he is, but are still outperforming him on a nightly basis.

I have a sneaky suspicion that Tom Thibodeau (and probably Jimmy Butler) has been in Andrew Wiggins' ass about his energy level and production in effort stats -- rebounds, assists, steals, blocks -- but I think this is one of those occasions where you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make make him drink.

Wiggins has to give a shit before any actual change can occur. It's been like five years where the media, staff, teammates, and fans have widely discussed his lackadaisical effort/play. Yes, even back when the guy was playing at Kansas. He's definitely aware of the talk surrounding him, both the good and bad.

I can remember the story about Flip Saunders yelling at him in practice back in his rookie campaign. I can remember Kevin Garnett talking about how "you either have that dog in ya or ya don't." Oh, and I remember Jimmy Butler several weeks ago saying that this team needed more from Andrew Wiggins (and Karl-Anthony Towns), and consistent effort on top of that.

Here's the difference between a superstar in the making and a bum.

Karl-Anthony's defense has improved this season, from month to month -- evident by his DRtg each month -- and even against Boston he was great on that end. Defense is really the only issue with Towns' game and there is clear evidence that he's making strides.

Meanwhile, there are three main things that have been discussed time and time again with Andrew. His ball-handling, his perimeter shooting, and his rebounding. He hasn't improved on these aspects whatsoever, regressed in several areas actually, and very much looks like the same player he was as a 19-year old rookie. That's disturbing. We're rapidly approaching "bust" level with him and the talk of his max contract limiting this franchise in the near future is becoming a real topic of discussion.

Superstars improve upon their strengths, and work on their weaknesses. Bums stay complacent showing no improvement in their games.

Towns is on his way to superstardom.
Wiggins is on his way to the bank, cashing in and walking out.

Camden wrote:I have a sneaky suspicion that Tom Thibodeau (and probably Jimmy Butler) has been in Andrew Wiggins' ass about his energy level and production in effort stats -- rebounds, assists, steals, blocks -- but I think this is one of those occasions where you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make make him drink.

Wiggins has to give a shit before any actual change can occur. It's been like five years where the media, staff, teammates, and fans have widely discussed his lackadaisical effort/play. Yes, even back when the guy was playing at Kansas. He's definitely aware of the talk surrounding him, both the good and bad.

I can remember the story about Flip Saunders yelling at him in practice back in his rookie campaign. I can remember Kevin Garnett talking about how "you either have that dog in ya or ya don't." Oh, and I remember Jimmy Butler several weeks ago saying that this team needed more from Andrew Wiggins (and Karl-Anthony Towns), and consistent effort on top of that.

Here's the difference between a superstar in the making and a bum.

Karl-Anthony's defense has improved this season, from month to month -- evident by his DRtg each month -- and even against Boston he was great on that end. Defense is really the only issue with Towns' game and there is clear evidence that he's making strides.

Meanwhile, there are three main things that have been discussed time and time again with Andrew. His ball-handling, his perimeter shooting, and his rebounding. He hasn't improved on these aspects whatsoever, regressed in several areas actually, and very much looks like the same player he was as a 19-year old rookie. That's disturbing. We're rapidly approaching "bust" level with him and the talk of his max contract limiting this franchise in the near future is becoming a real topic of discussion.

Superstars improve upon their strengths, and work on their weaknesses. Bums stay complacent showing no improvement in their games.

Towns is on his way to superstardom.
Wiggins is on his way to the bank, cashing in and walking out.

You nailed it Cam! I wish I could disagree with you, I really do. But the evidence is hard to refute.

But he has that elite euro and spin move! :)

I see lots of tweets from people concerned that no one will pass to Andrew and that no plays are called specifically for him. I see some truth in this view. Would it help him engage if he became the focus of the offense early in games?

Wiggins in the 1st half was fantastic doing all the stuff everyone wants from him other than scoring and was taking good shots at least. It fell apart in the 2nd half but he wasn't alone. He isn't getting traded and if the Wolves wanted to deal him they would have no problem doing so and that's not just me saying it but media members like Wolfson and Jon K. Also Boston would have made Bazz look hilariously bad. Butler has a tough time scoring Bazz would have had absolutely no chance out there. Jon K said on the last podcast he thinks that both Bazz and the Wolves know this isn't going to work and it's possible one way or another he will be gone in the next few weeks. That was his theory he didn't have any inside info but it makes sense.

Brooks was actually pretty good in this game for a backup PG...on both ends. +2 tonight he really used his quickness and you gotta love that block/foul on Baynes Brooks can get up. I was actually impressed with his defense. His ability to actually get past someone was nice. That no PG lineup I thought was terrible when Brooks had actually done some good stuff.

Thibs talked during the game about getting up the court before the Celtics got set. Butler probably missed the memo. Between him and Crawford their TO's really hurt. Crawford had a couple good defensive possessions early on but Smart's eyes lit up playing against him and others on the defensive end.

Towns was terrific.

Tough night for a guy like Tyus. He has to guard Kyrie and then if he isn't guarding him he has a big high level defender on him. Like Q said his limitations showed in this game but it's not fair to rip him too much Boston is a really good defensive team. Regardless Tyus either doesn't have the juice or skill right now to create enough for himself and others or he isn't doing it. I think it's some of both. He needs to be more aggressive sometimes.

Belly showed some life. Playing him at the 3...I like the thought but man he can't guard some of those guys. Smart didn't look to attack him which is good I guess. Belly had that wild drive to the hoop where he scored but it was not pretty. It feels weird but it feels like MGH should be seeing minutes instead of Belly right now but Belly does need to play if he is gonna get back to being a worthwhile player that I think he can be.

Winning this game would have been pretty impressive in Boston and despite all the negatives the Wolves weren't blown out. It's not like they didn't play hard or completely sucked. Hopefully we see a bounce back win today.