The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT

[Monster]

Cool FWIW in Thibs last season with the Bulls before the AS break they were 17th in Pace. Rose had a pretty good rating in that regard that year and he basically only played 4 more games and therefore after the break they finished 26th. It's not terribly significant but they were picking up the pace there compared to the grind they had been doing before that so...yeah MAYBE...a bit encouraging? Obviously I don't see Thibs as a guy that is dying to push the pace he is looking for efficiency and I also think some players like Towns and Wiggins haven't exactly been guys that have driven getting out and running. Also the Wolves this season haven't been a particularly good defensive rebounding team so that doesn't help. Forcing turnovers does. Thoughts?

[Coolbreeze44]

Cool FWIW in Thibs last season with the Bulls before the AS break they were 17th in Pace. Rose had a pretty good rating in that regard that year and he basically only played 4 more games and therefore after the break they finished 26th. It's not terribly significant but they were picking up the pace there compared to the grind they had been doing before that so...yeah MAYBE...a bit encouraging? Obviously I don't see Thibs as a guy that is dying to push the pace he is looking for efficiency and I also think some players like Towns and Wiggins haven't exactly been guys that have driven getting out and running. Also the Wolves this season haven't been a particularly good defensive rebounding team so that doesn't help. Forcing turnovers does. Thoughts?

In my opinion you can run after turnovers, after defensive rebounds and after made baskets. It's all about having the right mindset and being drilled in the proper manner.

[thedoper]

Cool FWIW in Thibs last season with the Bulls before the AS break they were 17th in Pace. Rose had a pretty good rating in that regard that year and he basically only played 4 more games and therefore after the break they finished 26th. It's not terribly significant but they were picking up the pace there compared to the grind they had been doing before that so...yeah MAYBE...a bit encouraging? Obviously I don't see Thibs as a guy that is dying to push the pace he is looking for efficiency and I also think some players like Towns and Wiggins haven't exactly been guys that have driven getting out and running. Also the Wolves this season haven't been a particularly good defensive rebounding team so that doesn't help. Forcing turnovers does. Thoughts?

In my opinion you can run after turnovers, after defensive rebounds and after made baskets. It's all about having the right mindset and being drilled in the proper manner.

I agree with running after turnovers but I don't think that would even change our pace that much. I don't mind being Spursy and waiting for the right shot in our half court sets. I still think everyone is too wrapped up in their own games on offense, but slowly we're moving in the right direction.

[Monster]

Cool FWIW in Thibs last season with the Bulls before the AS break they were 17th in Pace. Rose had a pretty good rating in that regard that year and he basically only played 4 more games and therefore after the break they finished 26th. It's not terribly significant but they were picking up the pace there compared to the grind they had been doing before that so...yeah MAYBE...a bit encouraging? Obviously I don't see Thibs as a guy that is dying to push the pace he is looking for efficiency and I also think some players like Towns and Wiggins haven't exactly been guys that have driven getting out and running. Also the Wolves this season haven't been a particularly good defensive rebounding team so that doesn't help. Forcing turnovers does. Thoughts?

In my opinion you can run after turnovers, after defensive rebounds and after made baskets. It's all about having the right mindset and being drilled in the proper manner.

I agree with running after turnovers but I don't think that would even change our pace that much. I don't mind being Spursy and waiting for the right shot in our half court sets. I still think everyone is too wrapped up in their own games on offense, but slowly we're moving in the right direction.

To clarify I mentioned the turnovers helping but didn't commjnitcate that is already likely a positive factor. The Wolves are 4th in points off turnovers already so they probably help their pace there already.

[Lipoli390]

Cool FWIW in Thibs last season with the Bulls before the AS break they were 17th in Pace. Rose had a pretty good rating in that regard that year and he basically only played 4 more games and therefore after the break they finished 26th. It's not terribly significant but they were picking up the pace there compared to the grind they had been doing before that so...yeah MAYBE...a bit encouraging? Obviously I don't see Thibs as a guy that is dying to push the pace he is looking for efficiency and I also think some players like Towns and Wiggins haven't exactly been guys that have driven getting out and running. Also the Wolves this season haven't been a particularly good defensive rebounding team so that doesn't help. Forcing turnovers does. Thoughts?

In my opinion you can run after turnovers, after defensive rebounds and after made baskets. It's all about having the right mindset and being drilled in the proper manner.

I agree with running after turnovers but I don't think that would even change our pace that much. I don't mind being Spursy and waiting for the right shot in our half court sets. I still think everyone is too wrapped up in their own games on offense, but slowly we're moving in the right direction.

I wish we were truly Spursy. If we were, we'd see a lot more ball movement -- constant movement with the ball and off the ball with a focus on creating for each other without endless purposeless dribbling.

[Coolbreeze44]

Cool FWIW in Thibs last season with the Bulls before the AS break they were 17th in Pace. Rose had a pretty good rating in that regard that year and he basically only played 4 more games and therefore after the break they finished 26th. It's not terribly significant but they were picking up the pace there compared to the grind they had been doing before that so...yeah MAYBE...a bit encouraging? Obviously I don't see Thibs as a guy that is dying to push the pace he is looking for efficiency and I also think some players like Towns and Wiggins haven't exactly been guys that have driven getting out and running. Also the Wolves this season haven't been a particularly good defensive rebounding team so that doesn't help. Forcing turnovers does. Thoughts?

In my opinion you can run after turnovers, after defensive rebounds and after made baskets. It's all about having the right mindset and being drilled in the proper manner.

I agree with running after turnovers but I don't think that would even change our pace that much. I don't mind being Spursy and waiting for the right shot in our half court sets. I still think everyone is too wrapped up in their own games on offense, but slowly we're moving in the right direction.

I wish we were truly Spursy. If we were, we'd see a lot more ball movement -- constant movement with the ball and off the ball with a focus on creating for each other without endless purposeless dribbling.

Agree Lip

[Lipoli390]

We really don't have the personnel to push the pace and play high pace games. Teague and Butler just aren't Harden/CP3 or the Warriors who usually have 5 guys who can rebound and push the ball. Wiggins isn't a ball handler so having him dribble from even half-court isn't a great option to get to the rim. We know Taj can't run all game long and Towns isn't a superfreak athlete himself when it comes to general foot speed. We also aren't a highly efficient offense so pushing the pace means more misses and giving up more transition points and defense just gets harder and guys take off more plays when there are more plays in general. Run and gun works when you can actually gun at a high level. We don't have efficient shooters who do it at a high volume outside of KAT. We have volume scorers who make tough shots.

The improvement needs to come from the ball movement in the half-court. Our pace matches our personnel. The looks we get do not match the talent we have. Guys just need to do more work to get better looks for their teammates and for themselves. That's our biggest opportunity for improvement. Running and gunning just isn't gonna work for this team. Heavy minutes and just a lack of top end to end player talent should be a clear signal that we shouldn't be pushing pace. We should be grinding games out, but focusing on efficiency improvements in the offense we have.

I think the bold comment is one where you would be in the extreme minority. Pushing pace and making the extra pass matches our personnel perfectly. No defense can defend us if we're doing that.

So what is your push the pace strategy that matches our personnel? From the defensive rebound to the finish on the other end. The only guy we have that can do it from end to end is Jimmy. Teague can't finish around the rim that well. There's a reason he finishes with floaters so often and not true layups. Wiggins can't dribble more than 1 or 2 at a time. Gibson can't run and Towns can't rebound and get up the court fast enough. It requires ball handlers who can finish in traffic or make he right pass. If Teague can't finish in traffic and Wiggins can't even dribble the ball up the court, how is your pushing the pace going to work consistently?

My idea of pushing the pace doesn't require much dribbling. In fact the ball shouldn't touch the floor much at all. You push the pace by passing and running the court. You force the defense to be reactive instead of being able to set up and dictate flow. You finish by making the extra pass. I coach a long way from the NBA level, but my system has played well as the game has changed.

Cool -- You're described exactly what I have envisioned for this team. I'll add that I also agree with Kahns that we need much more ball movement in the half-court as well. It's both pace and half-court movement. I agree with Monster that the ball moves better in the half court with Tyus. Perhaps that has created the illusion of greater pace.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Per usual... I'm late to the party. But my thoughts:

1. Teague really does seem to struggle with alley-oops compared to other PGs. Tyus Jones threw an ill-advised one in the second half, too.

2. Jimmy Butler is good....x34.

3. We might hear what we want to hear from the TNT crew. "They need to push the pace!" I would also tend to agree. But their constant harping on the value of three pointers AND how much they'd dominate (and make financially) in today's NBA screams old man in the front yard with a garden hose and shaking fist at the neighborhood kids. STOP. PLEASE!
- It's ironic that late-career Barkley took 3.9 attempts per game one season... and hit only 28% of them. Funny yes... hypocritical... yes.

4. The final score is a bit misleading considering the Wolves were losing the woefully undermanned Lakers squad. Yuck. But 21 - 13 is pretty damn good any way you want to slice it. A win is a win.

5. Belly was pretty rough even in those 6 minutes. But that's probably to be expected after such a long layoff.

6. KAT had another late-game surge to salvage another very very quiet first 3 quarters effort.

7. Julius Randle seems to be a really solid ENERGY guy off the bench. But he's been floated in trade rumors and angst among Lakers fans. What am I missing? He seems to bring great energy and effort and even results whenever I've seen him play this season.

8. Kuzma is a professional scorer. Already. Nice late 1st round gem. He's only getting better and better.

[thedoper]

Per usual... I'm late to the party. But my thoughts:

1. Teague really does seem to struggle with alley-oops compared to other PGs. Tyus Jones threw an ill-advised one in the second half, too.

2. Jimmy Butler is good....x34.

3. We might hear what we want to hear from the TNT crew. "They need to push the pace!" I would also tend to agree. But their constant harping on the value of three pointers AND how much they'd dominate (and make financially) in today's NBA screams old man in the front yard with a garden hose and shaking fist at the neighborhood kids. STOP. PLEASE!
- It's ironic that late-career Barkley took 3.9 attempts per game one season... and hit only 28% of them. Funny yes... hypocritical... yes.

4. The final score is a bit misleading considering the Wolves were losing the woefully undermanned Lakers squad. Yuck. But 21 - 13 is pretty damn good any way you want to slice it. A win is a win.

5. Belly was pretty rough even in those 6 minutes. But that's probably to be expected after such a long layoff.

6. KAT had another late-game surge to salvage another very very quiet first 3 quarters effort.

7. Julius Randle seems to be a really solid ENERGY guy off the bench. But he's been floated in trade rumors and angst among Lakers fans. What am I missing? He seems to bring great energy and effort and even results whenever I've seen him play this season.

8. Kuzma is a professional scorer. Already. Nice late 1st round gem. He's only getting better and better.

I really like Randle too. Maybe it's an attitude thing, because it's a puzzle to me. I'd try and land him if at all possible. He will probably end up being a hall of famer on the Spurs.

[TAFKASP]

8. Kuzma is a professional scorer. Already. Nice late 1st round gem. He's only getting better and better.

Young players who're showing visible improvement to their games, say it ain't so.