The Scary case for Derrick Rose

[AbeVigodaLive]

http://www.1500espn.com/wolves-2/2017/02/zulgad-wolves-interest-rose-based-desire-move-rubio/

The only other explanation that makes sense to me then is that Rubio himself has wanted out of Minnesota for a while.

[thedoper]

http://www.1500espn.com/wolves-2/2017/02/zulgad-wolves-interest-rose-based-desire-move-rubio/

The only other explanation that makes sense to me then is that Rubio himself has wanted out of Minnesota for a while.

I do think that's fair Abe. All of the cryptic quotes from the summer, etc. might make more sense. It also makes Sid going after him at the opening press conference a bit more respectable. But if that's not the entire story I do think it's equally fair to think that Thibs willingness to let him go is a reflection on his abilities as well. And Thibs is clearly someone who wouldn't ignore D.

[Monster]

http://www.1500espn.com/wolves-2/2017/02/zulgad-wolves-interest-rose-based-desire-move-rubio/

The only other explanation that makes sense to me then is that Rubio himself has wanted out of Minnesota for a while.

I do think that's fair Abe. All of the cryptic quotes from the summer, etc. might make more sense. It also makes Sid going after him at the opening press conference a bit more respectable. But if that's not the entire story I do think it's equally fair to think that Thibs willingness to let him go is a reflection on his abilities as well. And Thibs is clearly someone who wouldn't ignore D.

Jon K who is as close to Rubio as anyone says Rubio wants to be here and has for years.

It's pretty simple. The Wolves had Dunn drop into their laps and he was one of their top guys in the entire draft. They have 3 talented PGs all of the are young. Most people would have agreed that the PG position wasn't locked up so drafting a PG made plenty of sense. Rubio is a guy with some value and they can't keep all 3 guys going forward and there are other holes. Why wouldn't you consider moving Rubio if you could get something back? I don't think there is really that much to read into anything. If Thibs didn't value Rubio he would be gone and or not playing 30+ mpg. It's really not that difficult to figure out. We know why Rubio might not be the answer. If he was they would have done something different in the draft taking a different player or offering up the slot to take Dunn or picking him and dealing him later. But no Dunn is their guy. It doesn't mean they don't value Rubio they value Dunn. It's not really that cryptic. Also these reports may mean nothing. Last year the hot trade tale was the Wolves offered Rubio and wanted Middleton in return. No way that was happening.

Teams talk. Is Rubio available? Sure. Are teams interested? I would guess so. It's a different need and salary considerations but the Wizards just gave up a 1st round pick (and got some salary relief) for Bogdanovic and that guy is a backup wing that from what I heard is a vertically worthless defender. I'm sure there are some teams that would have interest in Rubio. Will there be a deal? Honestly I doubt it and I realize it's likely going to happen at some point. The reports are and from glen's own mouth is they are still wanting to make the playoffs. They aren't going to just dump Rubio without getting a guard back that gives them a shot to win some games in that case.

[Monster]

Interesting take on a straight up Rose for Rubio deal.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/knicks-should-flip-derrick-rose-for-ricky-rubio/

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

Teams talk. Is Rubio available? Sure. Are teams interested? I would guess so. It's a different need and salary considerations but the Wizards just gave up a 1st round pick (and got some salary relief) for Bogdanovic and that guy is a backup wing that from what I heard is a vertically worthless defender. I'm sure there are some teams that would have interest in Rubio. Will there be a deal? Honestly I doubt it and I realize it's likely going to happen at some point. The reports are and from glen's own mouth is they are still wanting to make the playoffs. They aren't going to just dump Rubio without getting a guard back that gives them a shot to win some games in that case.

Wizards didn't give up a 1st just for just Bogdanovic. They wanted to cut the salary of Nicholson. After they max out Porter they won't even bother re-signing Bogs. That team doesn't want to play the lux tax.

[60WinTim]

Interesting take on a straight up Rose for Rubio deal.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/knicks-should-flip-derrick-rose-for-ricky-rubio/

Hmm.. Makes me wonder why we would want to get rid of Rubio! ;-)

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

[

http://www.1500espn.com/wolves-2/2017/02/zulgad-wolves-interest-rose-based-desire-move-rubio/

I have been pretty vocal in my displeasure with Ricky's D particularly this year. I know there are a few others here who share the sentiment but the majority opinion here does seem to be that Ricky is a great defender. I am curious why it seems to be a forgone conclusion by everyone (media) that a defensive minded coach like Thibs has no interest in Rubio if he's a great defender?

It can't be about Rubio's offensive deficiences because we gain nothing there and our offense has been good this year. My question is there something in Thib's system that Ricky just can't give defensively? Does Thibs have an athletic threshold to running his system?

I think it's less about Ricky's defense being substandard and the potential he sees in Kris Dunn defensively. I think Dunn's potential defensively is a floor of Patrick Beverley and a ceiling of Tony Allen in his prime. I believe once he learns the nuances and gains the respect of officials, he will be able to check 1s, 2s, and some 3s. Elite potential.

Ricky is very good defensively, but Dunn can be even better. The issue is that Dunn has been a complete disaster on offense. He makes Ricky look like Kevin Durant out there.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Interesting take on a straight up Rose for Rubio deal.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/knicks-should-flip-derrick-rose-for-ricky-rubio/

Hmm.. Makes me wonder why we would want to get rid of Rubio! ;-)

Yeah, gee, funny how we have a high usage wing (Wiggins) and even more high usage big (KAT) that could also use a pass first PG! Throw in a healthy LaVine and Shabazz for good measure and there are a lot of mouths to feed!

[Monster]

Teams talk. Is Rubio available? Sure. Are teams interested? I would guess so. It's a different need and salary considerations but the Wizards just gave up a 1st round pick (and got some salary relief) for Bogdanovic and that guy is a backup wing that from what I heard is a vertically worthless defender. I'm sure there are some teams that would have interest in Rubio. Will there be a deal? Honestly I doubt it and I realize it's likely going to happen at some point. The reports are and from glen's own mouth is they are still wanting to make the playoffs. They aren't going to just dump Rubio without getting a guard back that gives them a shot to win some games in that case.

Wizards didn't give up a 1st just for just Bogdanovic. They wanted to cut the salary of Nicholson. After they max out Porter they won't even bother re-signing Bogs. That team doesn't want to play the lux tax.

Thanks for laying out those nuances I alluded to in my post. :)

I'll add that while Nicholson isn't an asset because of his salary (he was obviously a negative in the trade) he has shown signs before of being a decent NBA bench player and the Nets could use guys like that. He is having the worst season of his career after having his best one last season in Orlando. If he turns it around and plays decent again he could help the Nets one way or another. I've always kinda liked him but he doesn't have a lot of upside and I never had illusions that he did.

[MikkeMan]

Why do we have to trade Rubio to develop Dunn?

We don't.

If you believe the pundits, this is more about Thibs pursuing Rose than it is about letting go of Rubio just for the sake of dumping Rubio. They make it sound like we're actually interested in Rose the player (as opposed to Rose the salary dump).

It's frankly baffling to me if true. Rose is a total disaster in my opinion.

I wouldn't want Rose either but somehow I find it funny that many posters here think that Rose is completely done and would basically have negative impact for any team. Here are some interesting per 36 minute stats:

player 1: 19.8 pts, 4.4 rbs, 5.0 asts, 0.8 stls, 0.4 blks, 2.8 TOs 51.8 TS%
player 2: 20.3 pts, 3.9 rbs, 5.9 asts, 0.7 stls, 0.3 blks, 2.7 TOs 53.2 TS%

It seems to me that stats for these players are almost identical. First player is Rose this season and second player is Rose in his second season when he was selected to all star game first time. Main difference is in assists numbers but even that could be at least partially because of Hornacek's game plan (he has played Rose more than 20% together with Jennings). Both Dragic and Bledsoe have been getting more assists with other coaches as well.

Other notable difference is in scoring efficiency. When you dig Rose's shooting numbers little more, it seems that main difference has been that in his 2nd year Rose was hitting 2-point jump shots with really good accuracy 47.1%. So even tough he is getting to rim more this season than back then and finishing with comparable accuracy, his lower efficiency (41.5%) in two point jump shots drops his TS%. It is still notable that Rose has hit this year his 2-point jump shots still with better accuracy than in his two other all star years when his jump shooting % was below 39%.