Tom Thibodeau...let's discusss

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I tend to agree with Abe on this. I'm not concerned about Dunn's poor shooting, which is every bit as bad as Ricky's. I'm far more worried about Dunn's ball-handling and decision-making at this point in his young career. We'll see.

Yeah, I agree with this take too...Dunn's shot selection and percentage has actually been fine in the first two games.

I've teed up the discussion of whether Thibs is culpable or not in the two grand collapses in our first two games, but I have to give him credit for how he has handled him so far. Many of us thought we had no chance to win in Sac-Town after Rubio went down...Dunn just isn't ready to conduct an offense. But Thibs clearly feels the same way, and as Q pointed out, Dunn must have been instructed to play tough defense but stay out of the way on offense...he was giving up the ball as soon as he crossed midcourt. I don't know if we can play an entire game like that if Ricky is out tomorrow though, so I look for Thibs to give Dunn more freedom to run the offense. Let's see what the kid can do...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, I think the "stay out of the way" mantra will apply to both of our PGs in close, crunch time situations. Rubio's involvement in the halfcourt offense goes way down too.

I'll say it again - this team is being built around KAT first and foremost, Wiggins second, and LaVine probably a distant 3rd. Unlike a lot of other teams - Portland, OKC, Clippers, Houston - we are not 100% dependent on a ball-dominant point guard. If Lillard, Westbrook, Paul, or Harden goes down, those teams are dead.

Now that doesn't exonerate Rubio and Dunn from being able to knock down the open J if the entire defense collapses in the paint. But frankly, a lot of our crunch time failures aren't due to our PGs clanking open jumpers. We've been getting our go-to guys open looks, but they just haven't connected in these first couple of games.

[AbeVigodaLive]

LST, I think the "stay out of the way" mantra will apply to both of our PGs in close, crunch time situations. Rubio's involvement in the halfcourt offense goes way down too.

I'll say it again - this team is being built around KAT first and foremost, Wiggins second, and LaVine probably a distant 3rd. Unlike a lot of other teams - Portland, OKC, Clippers, Houston - we are not 100% dependent on a ball-dominant point guard. If Lillard, Westbrook, Paul, or Harden goes down, those teams are dead.

Now that doesn't exonerate Rubio and Dunn from being able to knock down the open J if the entire defense collapses in the paint. But frankly, a lot of our crunch time failures aren't due to our PGs clanking open jumpers. We've been getting our go-to guys open looks, but they just haven't connected in these first couple of games.

Small sample size alert...

Those teams are currently 9 - 2 collectively. I think the one team that sorta asks its PG to get out of the way and still wins consistently is the Spurs. Their guards are not the focal point at this stage.

But that organization is such the anomaly that I don't know if it tells us a lot... or nothing.


[Note: And I disagree about Paul a bit. That team went 13 - 7 without Paul in 2014 and .500 in other seasons because Blake Griffin can become a bigger version of LeBron James-lite in those situations. He's really a gifted creator and doesn't get enough credit for it.]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Dallas might be the one team I can think of recently that won a title without a player (nevermind whether it was a PG or not) that could break down a team off the dribble and either make a play for himself or find guys. At that point in his career, Kidd was basically just the set-up guy, with Dirk working mostly in isolation and everyone else spacing the floor.

Kobe and Jordan always played with low usage PGs, but those two guys were basically de facto PGs in how they could run pick and roll and distribute to open guys. Same with LeBron in his Miami run.

I think for us the key is that Wiggins especially has to keep improving at finding people off the bounce. It's still way early, but it appears that he is taking the next step in terms of his ability to score the ball. He applies an enormous amount of pressure on the defense when he is going down hill. He's going to need to translate that into improved play making decisions as time goes on. That will make us even less dependent on Ricky Rubio moving forward.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LST, I think the "stay out of the way" mantra will apply to both of our PGs in close, crunch time situations. Rubio's involvement in the halfcourt offense goes way down too.

I'll say it again - this team is being built around KAT first and foremost, Wiggins second, and LaVine probably a distant 3rd. Unlike a lot of other teams - Portland, OKC, Clippers, Houston - we are not 100% dependent on a ball-dominant point guard. If Lillard, Westbrook, Paul, or Harden goes down, those teams are dead.

Now that doesn't exonerate Rubio and Dunn from being able to knock down the open J if the entire defense collapses in the paint. But frankly, a lot of our crunch time failures aren't due to our PGs clanking open jumpers. We've been getting our go-to guys open looks, but they just haven't connected in these first couple of games.

Maybe, Q, but I think it's different. We have talked about how teams will be inclined to sag off and just let Ricky shoot at crunch time, thereby making passing more difficult and creating a 4 on 5 offensive situation, but frankly I have yet to see this strategy employed. I think Ricky is still dangerous with the ball in his hands, and is our best option with the game on the line to both protect the basketball and get the ball to a scorer in a place he can best score. I want to continue to see our offense started by Ricky when the game is on the line.

[Coolbreeze44]

LST, I think the "stay out of the way" mantra will apply to both of our PGs in close, crunch time situations. Rubio's involvement in the halfcourt offense goes way down too.

I'll say it again - this team is being built around KAT first and foremost, Wiggins second, and LaVine probably a distant 3rd. Unlike a lot of other teams - Portland, OKC, Clippers, Houston - we are not 100% dependent on a ball-dominant point guard. If Lillard, Westbrook, Paul, or Harden goes down, those teams are dead.

Now that doesn't exonerate Rubio and Dunn from being able to knock down the open J if the entire defense collapses in the paint. But frankly, a lot of our crunch time failures aren't due to our PGs clanking open jumpers. We've been getting our go-to guys open looks, but they just haven't connected in these first couple of games.

Maybe, Q, but I think it's different. We have talked about how teams will be inclined to sag off and just let Ricky shoot at crunch time, thereby making passing more difficult and creating a 4 on 5 offensive situation, but frankly I have yet to see this strategy employed. I think Ricky is still dangerous with the ball in his hands, and is our best option with the game on the line to both protect the basketball and get the ball to a scorer in a place he can best score. I want to continue to see our offense started by Ricky when the game is on the line.

The problem is teams won't guard Ricky, making it much more difficult for him to distribute the ball or penetrate. Inevitably he ends up with the ball in his hands as the shot clock is winding down and he is forced to either jack up a jumper or make a lateral pass to someone else who forces a shot. It's just too easy to strategize against and guard.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

This is the perfect opportunity for Dunn to get his feet wet. He'll make mistakes, but he'll also have some flashes as well. This team needs to be able to function without Ricky. We can't fall apart every time he goes down. This is a good opportunity to develop without Ricky and learn how to do it without being spoon-fed everything.

[TheFuture]

I tend to agree with Abe on this. I'm not concerned about Dunn's poor shooting, which is every bit as bad as Ricky's. I'm far more worried about Dunn's ball-handling and decision-making at this point in his young career. We'll see.

I think you both will be pleasantly surprised by his ability to score when he settles in. His offensive game is far superior to Rubios. His ball handling, vision, and decision making are not at Ricky's level, but that should improve as the NBA game slows down. One thing he possesses that Ricky does not, is the ability to blow by people and actually finish at the rim which he has shown multiple times already. I couldn't tell you the last time Ricky even attempted to drive and finish. Its not just his lack of outside shooting that hurts us. He really is not a threat to score at all.


A side note: I don't think I've ever seen a shot like rubios since grade school. Its a freaking laser, and when he does try to put arc on it he just misses everything.

[Porckchop]

I tend to agree with Abe on this. I'm not concerned about Dunn's poor shooting, which is every bit as bad as Ricky's. I'm far more worried about Dunn's ball-handling and decision-making at this point in his young career. We'll see.

I think you both will be pleasantly surprised by his ability to score when he settles in. His offensive game is far superior to Rubios. His ball handling, vision, and decision making are not at Ricky's level, but that should improve as the NBA game slows down. One thing he possesses that Ricky does not, is the ability to blow by people and actually finish at the rim which he has shown multiple times already. I couldn't tell you the last time Ricky even attempted to drive and finish. Its not just his lack of outside shooting that hurts us. He really is not a threat to score at all.


A side note: I don't think I've ever seen a shot like rubios since grade school. Its a freaking laser, and when he does try to put arc on it he just misses everything.

I still haven't seen proof that Rubio's the best option in fourth quarters . By all accounts this team has been known for crashing and burning in 4th quarters since he's been apart of this team.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

This is the perfect opportunity for Dunn to get his feet wet. He'll make mistakes, but he'll also have some flashes as well. This team needs to be able to function without Ricky. We can't fall apart every time he goes down. This is a good opportunity to develop without Ricky and learn how to do it without being spoon-fed everything.

https://twitter.com/Twolves_PR/status/793160917512888320

Well, maybe he won't out too long according to Thibs.