khans2k5 wrote:So out of our top 10 +/- lineups, Wiggins is a SG in the bottom 3 and a SF in 3 lineups that are better in the top 10. Can someone explain to me why a guy who is just as effective at the 3 as the 2 is blocking a guy from playing the 2? Seriously. Ricky is blocking Zach at the 1. Wiggins is blocking Zach at the 2 and nobody is blocked at the 3, but theoretically Andrew can move to the 3 just as effectively and open that spot at the two for Zach. Can someone explain why it makes sense to block Zach when you don't have to? Why can't Zach play next to Ricky and Wiggins and then when Ricky goes down move him over to the PG spot? Is that illegal? A combo guard is a guy who can play both spots depending on who is on the court with him. Zach isn't a combo guard nor is he being developed as one if he doesn't play both spots. We're literally pigeon holeing Zach as a backup player this early in his career when we don't have to. How is that not stupid?
He's being blocked by someone who can play another position and the team loses nothing. What's the point of having a guy like Wiggins if he's already being pigeon holed as the starting SG moving forward? The whole point of getting him is he is a constant at either position so you can do whatever you want around him and he'll fit in. You can play Zach at the two next to him and he's fine. You can play Bazz next to him at the 3 and he's fine. Why shouldn't we try Zach at the 2 next to him now to see if that will work moving forward or if we'd be better off keeping Zach as a combo guard off the bench and bringing in a more versatile 3 who can start next to Wiggins? Why make Zach the bench guy/spot starter for life now and go the find the SF route when we don't even know what Zach can do as a 2 and Wiggins being interchangeable allows you to experiment and make the right choice long-term? Wiggins gives us options and we aren't even trying different possibilities. That's just such a waste.
Good stuff, khans, even though it doesn't support my narrative that Wig belongs at the 2. I like that lineup comparison site and I can't remember where I used to get that data. Can you link it here?
One of the problems with moving Wig to the 3 is that Sam likes Prince as his starting 3, and the numbers support Sam here. So if Wig and Prince are getting minutes at SF, Bazz becomes the odd man out in a 10-man rotation. The domino effect essentially results in giving Bazz's minutes to Miller, and nobody wants that. You can argue that Prince needs to be dropped from the rotation, but that's not going to happen as long as the starting unit keeps stopping the other team's starters (last night, not withstanding).
When I look at Zach's per 36 numbers it becomes abundantly clear just how guard friendly Flip and therefore Sam's systems are for PGs to put up assist numbers. That's no surprise based on the success of PGs both guys have coached over the years. It's pretty amazing actually and maybe it's an indication that these guys have some idea what they are doing on offense to create opportunities for guys to make passes. On the other hand it might be worth considering that Flip got Corey Brewer to look competent-ish as a PG...in other words maybe the assist stats in this system can deceive you to a certain extent.
The reality is that Lavine after looking clueless a lot of the time early has done some pretty good things the last couple games. There have been spots where I was sorta thinking damn we need Zach back in there and then thinking whoa... Lol I don't know if he really is a PG but he has talent loads of it. If he ever does figure out how to be even a scoring PG he would be damn near unstoppable offensively. I am along for the ride and with Zach it's going to be bumpy for a while no matter what spot he plays at.
khans2k5 wrote:So out of our top 10 +/- lineups, Wiggins is a SG in the bottom 3 and a SF in 3 lineups that are better in the top 10. Can someone explain to me why a guy who is just as effective at the 3 as the 2 is blocking a guy from playing the 2? Seriously. Ricky is blocking Zach at the 1. Wiggins is blocking Zach at the 2 and nobody is blocked at the 3, but theoretically Andrew can move to the 3 just as effectively and open that spot at the two for Zach. Can someone explain why it makes sense to block Zach when you don't have to? Why can't Zach play next to Ricky and Wiggins and then when Ricky goes down move him over to the PG spot? Is that illegal? A combo guard is a guy who can play both spots depending on who is on the court with him. Zach isn't a combo guard nor is he being developed as one if he doesn't play both spots. We're literally pigeon holeing Zach as a backup player this early in his career when we don't have to. How is that not stupid?
He's being blocked by someone who can play another position and the team loses nothing. What's the point of having a guy like Wiggins if he's already being pigeon holed as the starting SG moving forward? The whole point of getting him is he is a constant at either position so you can do whatever you want around him and he'll fit in. You can play Zach at the two next to him and he's fine. You can play Bazz next to him at the 3 and he's fine. Why shouldn't we try Zach at the 2 next to him now to see if that will work moving forward or if we'd be better off keeping Zach as a combo guard off the bench and bringing in a more versatile 3 who can start next to Wiggins? Why make Zach the bench guy/spot starter for life now and go the find the SF route when we don't even know what Zach can do as a 2 and Wiggins being interchangeable allows you to experiment and make the right choice long-term? Wiggins gives us options and we aren't even trying different possibilities. That's just such a waste.
Good stuff, khans, even though it doesn't support my narrative that Wig belongs at the 2. I like that lineup comparison site and I can't remember where I used to get that data. Can you link it here?
One of the problems with moving Wig to the 3 is that Sam likes Prince as his starting 3, and the numbers support Sam here. So if Wig and Prince are getting minutes at SF, Bazz becomes the odd man out in a 10-man rotation. The domino effect essentially results in giving Bazz's minutes to Miller, and nobody wants that. You can argue that Prince needs to be dropped from the rotation, but that's not going to happen as long as the starting unit keeps stopping the other team's starters (last night, not withstanding).
The lineup stats are on NBA.com. Click stats, then team lineup stats under the team dropdown. Then hit the settings wheel/filter and change the team to the Wolves. Then you can sort it by whatever stat you want there like +/-, FG%, etc. I don't really understand how the minutes work because there were lineups with 1 game of data that have decimals and some of the +/- is confusing because there are decimals (maybe it's average +/- per game). I get most of my stats from NBA.com now. They have a lot of really good ones that just take a little bit extra of effort to understand what you're looking at (opponent scoring still has me greatly confused with the way they present it because it just looks off to me).
