Martin Officially on the Trading Block

[Porckchop]

If shooting is this teams biggest bugaboo I don't see how Morris helps this team.

[Phenom]

Bledsoe out for the year now. I'm with WW on adding Morris if possible. Not only is he very talented but he plays with a toughness that this team lacks, especially among the young'ns. If he turns out to be a locker room cancer and LaVine, or Wiggins, or Towns is too weak minded to look past it, then we probably expedited the decision process about them anyway. I am not concerned about our young stars becoming tainted in the least.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'd absolutely take Markieff here for Martin and Payne. If this locker room couldn't keep a guy whom we would have ALL wanted prior to these shenanigans in check, then there's no point in having "mentors" on this team. We know what he can do when he plays well. Why scare yourself away from that? As I've always preached here, if we keep losing we'll turn anyone into a disgruntled moron who causes trouble. Winning will solve a lot of problems going forward, and Morris can help a lot more than someone like Martin or Payne.


Back to Martin, nobody will give us good value for a guy on a losing team who doesn't play. They'll just assume we'll do what we were rumored to do a year ago, which was buy him out and then you can give him a vet min deal no strings attached.

I think being a "mentor" to a 20 year old is a lot different than being a "mentor" to a 26-year-old rapidly declining mercurial player who has yet to take any accountability for his on/off court antics or his poor play this season.

Especially, since that guy already got paid and can't do anything about it at this point for another 3 seasons. If he keeps getting rewarded for his behavior... why would he change it?

It's like Detroit rewarding Josh Smith with $54M for trying to turn himself into a three point shooter... then wondering why he won't stop shooting three pointers after he got paid.

It's not about mentoring. It's about fostering an environment where even a malcontent can function. The only way they can is by winning games, and a motivated Markieff Morris can help big time.

And given how God awful this franchise is, I'm not sure Markieff would treat a trade here as a reward, but more as a wake-up call to get his stuff together.

I don't understand the love for Morris, wildwolf. Even though he has a lot more NBA experience than Payne, AP's numbers look better to me in almost every area. There seems to be a suggestion that Morris might play better if he were more motivated, but I would argue that a marginal player like Morris isn't good enough to not bring it every night. If a player's coach like Hornacek can't get Morris to play, what other coach is going to? Would Sam have more success with his tougher approach? I don't think so. No thanks on Morris. I'd rather get nothing or a pick for Martin, and see if Belly can regain his Euro form or if AP can continue to show the improvement he has shown this year.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'd absolutely take Markieff here for Martin and Payne. If this locker room couldn't keep a guy whom we would have ALL wanted prior to these shenanigans in check, then there's no point in having "mentors" on this team. We know what he can do when he plays well. Why scare yourself away from that? As I've always preached here, if we keep losing we'll turn anyone into a disgruntled moron who causes trouble. Winning will solve a lot of problems going forward, and Morris can help a lot more than someone like Martin or Payne.


Back to Martin, nobody will give us good value for a guy on a losing team who doesn't play. They'll just assume we'll do what we were rumored to do a year ago, which was buy him out and then you can give him a vet min deal no strings attached.

I think being a "mentor" to a 20 year old is a lot different than being a "mentor" to a 26-year-old rapidly declining mercurial player who has yet to take any accountability for his on/off court antics or his poor play this season.

Especially, since that guy already got paid and can't do anything about it at this point for another 3 seasons. If he keeps getting rewarded for his behavior... why would he change it?

It's like Detroit rewarding Josh Smith with $54M for trying to turn himself into a three point shooter... then wondering why he won't stop shooting three pointers after he got paid.

It's not about mentoring. It's about fostering an environment where even a malcontent can function. The only way they can is by winning games, and a motivated Markieff Morris can help big time.

And given how God awful this franchise is, I'm not sure Markieff would treat a trade here as a reward, but more as a wake-up call to get his stuff together.

He wants out of Phoenix. The Suns give him his wish and he gets playing time in a new location?

Again, money IS the reward for so many guys. And Morris signed his deal and nobody can change that no matter what for multiple years. He may be content with the $60M he and his brother already have.

He certainly hasn't looked motivated on the court this season, shooting 37.9%. You'd think trying to salvage his reputation after beating his former "mentor" would be a wake-up call. You'd think the blowback from ripping Phoenix fans after losing a game by 40 points would be a wake-up call. You'd think losing playing to time to being benched would be his wake-up call. You'd think being suspended would be his wake-up call.

Some guys simply don't want to answer.

[WildWolf2813]

I don't understand the love for Morris, wildwolf. Even though he has a lot more NBA experience than Payne, AP's numbers look better to me in almost every area. There seems to be a suggestion that Morris might play better if he were more motivated, but I would argue that a marginal player like Morris isn't good enough to not bring it every night. If a player's coach like Hornacek can't get Morris to play, what other coach is going to? Would Sam have more success with his tougher approach? I don't think so. No thanks on Morris. I'd rather get nothing or a pick for Martin, and see if Belly can regain his Euro form or if AP can continue to show the improvement he has shown this year.

Here's what it boils down to: you like Payne because he's easier to root for, not because he's better than Markieff Morris, because he isn't.

Personally, I don't care whether Sam Mitchell can tolerate Markieff Morris because I don't want Sam Mitchell back here next year as head coach. The question you must have is whether the coach you ideally want can handle those types of personalities or not. He better be able to handle that because until this team performs better, grumpy, disenchanted, moody malcontents are what these guys can turn into if we don't have the players to come through, and I can absolutely say Payne isn't gonna be one of those guys, Martin won't be one of those guys and as for Bjelica, he better get it together before he joins them too (at lease Shved gave us half a good season)


That's not to say I'm willing to sell the farm for Morris, but if the price is Martin and Payne, this team could do a lot worse.

[Monster]

No thanks to Morris. Britt was bringing up this same trade idea on Twitter. Morris seems to have issues on every level, basketball, personal, legal no thanks. He isn't talented enough to make me want to deal with that. He is at best an average Starting PF and while that sounds good and all considering we don't have that type of guy going forward I don't want to trade for him. I'm tired of adding all these knucklehead reclamation guys.

Obviously Payne likely won't be better but if he turned into a solid big off the bench for this team for 5 years that might end up being better for this team depending on how the PF position plays out than adding Morris who has various issues. Morris doesn't seem to me (speculating based on the info I have) to be a guy that's gonna be happy coming off the bench. He could be a guy you have to pay to get rid of. 8 million can get you a nice rotation player even in last year's spending and that's something else to consider.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Monster, while I agree with your conclusion about not wanting Morris on this team, I question your conclusion that "obviously" Payne will not be as good as Morris. They are almost exactly the same size, except I would argue AP is a little more athletic (and certainly more consistently hard working). I thought of them as identical players on good teams in college, but I think AP was the slightly better defender and 3-point shooter. And take a close look at their stats this year. Although Morris gets a lot more minutes, AP has the better stats on a per minute basis. He has a better rebounding rate, a better defensive rating and has a TS% more than 9% higher than Morris'. And he's doing this in only his second year (really first full year) in the NBA, while Morris has likely peaked in his 5th season.

I think many of us have an impression of Payne that is colored by his terrible rookie year, in which he languished in obscurity in Atanta before being dealt to the disfunction that was the 2014-5 Wolves. I think his performance this year is a far better indicator of what he can do, and unlike Morris, he still projects to get better as he adjusts to the NBA. Even disregarding the fact that Morris is just a bad guy, I would prefer AP over him.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Monster, while I agree with your conclusion about not wanting Morris on this team, I question your conclusion that "obviously" Payne will not be as good as Morris. They are almost exactly the same size, except I would argue AP is a little more athletic (and certainly more consistently hard working). I thought of them as identical players on good teams in college, but I think AP was the slightly better defender and 3-point shooter. And take a close look at their stats this year. Although Morris gets a lot more minutes, AP has the better stats on a per minute basis. He has a better rebounding rate, a better defensive rating and has a TS% more than 9% higher than Morris'. And he's doing this in only his second year (really first full year) in the NBA, while Morris has likely peaked in his 5th season.

I think many of us have an impression of Payne that is colored by his terrible rookie year, in which he languished in obscurity in Atanta before being dealt to the disfunction that was the 2014-5 Wolves. I think his performance this year is a far better indicator of what he can do, and unlike Morris, he still projects to get better as he adjusts to the NBA. Even disregarding the fact that Morris is just a bad guy, I would prefer AP over him.

To be fair, the Markieff Morris of 2014/2015 seasons proved to be a much better basketball player than A. Payne.

I think many expected him to make a leap after showing so much improvement in 2014. Remember, his 4 year, $32M contract was considered a steal at the time even with the lower salary cap. He could have made more if he was willing to dump his brother.

BUT... as soon as he got paid, the rapid ascent plateaued. This year, it's regressed and he's playing the worst ball of his career. He's shooting more than ever before... and making a lot less than ever before. He's rebounding less. Turning it over more. And causing many more distractions.

The Wolves are a team in mini-turmoil. They don't have a POBO/GM or a coach beyond this season, technically. Does that kind of environment (along with 3 of its most important players being impressionable 20 year olds) foster the type of environment that could help Morris turn his career completely around?

I'm not seeing it.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I completely agree that the 2014-5 Morris was much better than the 2014-5 Payne...but the 2014-5 Payne looked nothing like the Payne we watched four years at MSU. This year he looks like a rookie version of the college Payne, with a lot more upside ahead of him. Morris is my least favorite type of player...a guy who sulks and takes plays off, is a bad teammate, and thinks he is a better shooter than he really is.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I completely agree that the 2014-5 Morris was much better than the 2014-5 Payne...but the 2014-5 Payne looked nothing like the Payne we watched four years at MSU. This year he looks like a rookie version of the college Payne, with a lot more upside ahead of him. Morris is my least favorite type of player...a guy who sulks and takes plays off, is a bad teammate, and thinks he is a better shooter than he really is.

Fair enough. I think the hype with him was a bit much myself.

But I'm not really a Payne guy either. I think he's a deep rotation guy who'll show flashes, then regress just as quickly. Basically, a less aloof Anthony Randolph, maybe?

In any event, he'll have an opportunity to get more run as the season goes on. Might be interesting to see what he does with it.