Minnesota Sports Forum

papalrep wrote:Where would Mudiay play for us? Is he not Lavine 2.0?

Backup PG. Mudiay is a PG. Lavine is more of a SG. Mudiay's playstyle is like a Westbrook type of PG (not saying he is Westbrook).

khans2k5 wrote:What starter are we getting for the MLE? The MLE was created to fill out the bench. How many starters in the league were signed using the MLE. Most are either making more or are on rookie deals. We may be 1-3, but that's no longer due to a lack of effort. If you can't see the difference in energy with this team then I don't know what to tell you. I also don't think anyone here would think the Pek deal was a mistake if he was making 5-6 million a year and that's my point. KG is not signing for the minimum and he has a place on this team to help us grow into a new era while ending his era.

Oh, I have eyes.....I see the intensity. The issue is that we don't have the talent to go along with the intensity to make it matter. And if said intensity increase doesn't bring victories along with it, I could care less if guys are jumping around and screaming more often.

That brings me to the point of the MLE. I didn't say we would find a starter with the MLE. The MLE SHOULD only be used by teams that are playoff contenders that have minor holes to fill. 99%+ of players that get the MLE are severely overpaid simply due to this being one of few allowances teams near/at the cap have to add fringe level players. If we sign KG to $5M next season, we then have Chase, AB and KG making $16M, and none of the 3 are going to change the course of direction for this team. KG may add 3-5 wins....but who cares? We are going to miss the playoffs by 30-35 games. I would rather at least have the CHANCE to sign a max guy than continue to pay the likes of KG, Chase, Barea, etc because they are mildly better than the steaming piles already on our roster. The NBA is made of stars and support players. You pay support players vet min and you pay stars star level money. These in-between guys kills roster flexibility, and most often, the ability to succeed down the road.

I would say it is multi year deals that kill teams more then a guy making 5M. The MLE for 3 years seems almost always favor the player.

Hicks123 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:What starter are we getting for the MLE? The MLE was created to fill out the bench. How many starters in the league were signed using the MLE. Most are either making more or are on rookie deals. We may be 1-3, but that's no longer due to a lack of effort. If you can't see the difference in energy with this team then I don't know what to tell you. I also don't think anyone here would think the Pek deal was a mistake if he was making 5-6 million a year and that's my point. KG is not signing for the minimum and he has a place on this team to help us grow into a new era while ending his era.

Oh, I have eyes.....I see the intensity. The issue is that we don't have the talent to go along with the intensity to make it matter. And if said intensity increase doesn't bring victories along with it, I could care less if guys are jumping around and screaming more often.

That brings me to the point of the MLE. I didn't say we would find a starter with the MLE. The MLE SHOULD only be used by teams that are playoff contenders that have minor holes to fill. 99%+ of players that get the MLE are severely overpaid simply due to this being one of few allowances teams near/at the cap have to add fringe level players. If we sign KG to $5M next season, we then have Chase, AB and KG making $16M, and none of the 3 are going to change the course of direction for this team. KG may add 3-5 wins....but who cares? We are going to miss the playoffs by 30-35 games. I would rather at least have the CHANCE to sign a max guy than continue to pay the likes of KG, Chase, Barea, etc because they are mildly better than the steaming piles already on our roster. The NBA is made of stars and support players. You pay support players vet min and you pay stars star level money. These in-between guys kills roster flexibility, and most often, the ability to succeed down the road.

We're talking about a two year extension. We aren't going to be a contender in the next two years. Right now we need good bridge contracts while our young players are improving so that when we are contenders in 3 years+ we'll have plenty of space to sign other guys. Who are we signing with max cap space this off season? Then next year Bud is off the books combined with a massive jump in cap space. The new TV deal will open up max cap space for half the league. The only teams that get away with maxes and minimums are already winners. Teams on their way to winning end don't get to build that way. All these ideal deals you talk about won't happen here for several years until we prove to be real contenders. You can horde all the cap space you want, but nobody is jumping ship for MN until we start winning. That means KG's deal will literally have zero negative impact on our ability to bring in a star because it will be up before stars even consider MN a market they might come to. This notion that we can turn the ship around after 1 year is not realistic so bridge two year deals help us in the short term and don't block anything in the long-term. We probably won't make the playoffs next year. We might, but this is going to take more than 1 year to right the ship and our FA history should show everyone that we won't improve enough via FA's until we have something built here that they think they can put over the top. That won't happen going into next season and maybe even the season after that. Finally, moving Bud and AB this off season doesn't make sense because it's going to cost us more than just dumping them. We can turn down AB's option and wait out on Bud to have them both expire after next year. There's no reason to give up future assets with them to dump them 1 year early when it isn't a year we are trying to contend anyway. We can just let them expire and keep all our other assets.

Decline Bennett's option, khans? Wouldn't that mean you're giving up on him? No way; it couldn't be...

Camden0916 wrote:Decline Bennett's option, khans? Wouldn't that mean you're giving up on him? No way; it couldn't be...

I would prefer not to decline his option. The point was made more to his cap space argument and trying to create as much of it as possible this off season not being a good idea because it would cost more than just dumping some players and we aren't in a position to attract top level free agents yet. I will admit though that if Bennett shows up as the same guy next year I wouldn't pick up his option when we have to decide by October.

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Decline Bennett's option, khans? Wouldn't that mean you're giving up on him? No way; it couldn't be...

I would prefer not to decline his option. The point was made more to his cap space argument and trying to create as much of it as possible this off season not being a good idea because it would cost more than just dumping some players and we aren't in a position to attract top level free agents yet. I will admit though that if Bennett shows up as the same guy next year I wouldn't pick up his option when we have to decide by October.

To be fair Kahns, I at no point suggested a 1 year build. I am fully aware it will take this team 2-3 years to become even remotely competitive, and another several (if at all) to become a truly good team. My point is more about the continuous process of adding mediocre, and overpaid players. KG in a vacuum doesn't matter to the course of the team....so why pay him like he does? It becomes a continuous cycle of overpaying these types of players to become slivers better than you were previously. To put it in better perspective, prior to last weeks trade for Javale McGee, the 76ers were at less than $40M compared to the Wolves $70M....and what do we have to show for it? An identical record. And they were able to absorb McGee without giving anything in return. Now, I am not saying I want anything to do with McGee specifically, but their flexibility allowed them to make moves to get better down the road. When you continuously add overpaid marginal players, this type of flexibility goes out the window.

Hicks123 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Decline Bennett's option, khans? Wouldn't that mean you're giving up on him? No way; it couldn't be...

I would prefer not to decline his option. The point was made more to his cap space argument and trying to create as much of it as possible this off season not being a good idea because it would cost more than just dumping some players and we aren't in a position to attract top level free agents yet. I will admit though that if Bennett shows up as the same guy next year I wouldn't pick up his option when we have to decide by October.

To be fair Kahns, I at no point suggested a 1 year build. I am fully aware it will take this team 2-3 years to become even remotely competitive, and another several (if at all) to become a truly good team. My point is more about the continuous process of adding mediocre, and overpaid players. KG in a vacuum doesn't matter to the course of the team....so why pay him like he does? It becomes a continuous cycle of overpaying these types of players to become slivers better than you were previously. To put it in better perspective, prior to last weeks trade for Javale McGee, the 76ers were at less than $40M compared to the Wolves $70M....and what do we have to show for it? An identical record. And they were able to absorb McGee without giving anything in return. Now, I am not saying I want anything to do with McGee specifically, but their flexibility allowed them to make moves to get better down the road. When you continuously add overpaid marginal players, this type of flexibility goes out the window.

The 76ers are employing a very high risk, high reward strategy. What players are yearning to go sign up with that team? They've backed themselves into a corner of only being able to improve significantly in the draft or via trade. I think it's going to blow up in their face and be a very damaging endevour to their team. I don't think you can have a title or tank attitude. Only a couple teams ever make it out of the hole it puts you in trying to wait for the stars to align like OKC. Others like Orlando and Utah are still just playing and still losing. They stocked up with young guys and haven't been able to go anywhere and until Philly actually shows signs of possibly becoming a good team, they are no better off than we are.

Khans - Backup PG. Mudiay is a PG. Lavine is more of a SG. Mudiay's playstyle is like a Westbrook type of PG (not saying he is Westbrook).

That being the case, that's not the best use of a lottery pick, unless Flip is convinced he will be the next Westbrook

I read ypu're post about Mudiay eventually supplanting Ricky. Interesting. After Okafor, I dont know the best deal for us. Hope its Towns, Russell, Mudiay, or (maybe) Johnson