Minnesota Sports Forum

Two years derailed by injury? So, his basketball ability isn't the problem. It's just bad luck, huh? That's delusional as fuck, but whatever you say.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:When you have guys who came into the league with good potential (like AB, Payne), I think you really have no choice but to give them every opportunity to "make it". They're both here, we've made an investment in each. The last thing you want to do is prematurely cut ties before it's necessary. However, if you have a guy who clearly doesn't have the goods (Flynn, Wes), I have no problem moving on from them at the earliest convenience. Personally I don't think we're at that point yet with either of these guys. I want to see more of both before we give up and call the investment a waste.

I'm in this camp as well. But I don't think Flip is in the same camp. When Flip went out to get KG and Payne, it sort of sealed Bennett's fate IMO. While it seems pretty clear Bennett will never live up to being #1 overall - I do think Bennett will get better. I think it would be cool to have the last three #1 overall picks on our team. But I don't think AB will be around to see it, so we better hope for good lotto luck next year lol.

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Scary thing is, Cool, Flynn and Wes showed way, way more than Bennett has to this point.

We could have that debate. I thought Flynn was one of the worst NBA players I had ever seen.

Likewise the other way.

(At least Flynn put up 13.5 PPG / 4.4 APG in 28.9 MPG as an 81-game starter his rookie year. By default, he's leaps and bounds better than Bennett.)

Flynn's rookie year really wasn't all that bad. The problem is it all went downhill starting season #2.

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Scary thing is, Cool, Flynn and Wes showed way, way more than Bennett has to this point.

We could have that debate. I thought Flynn was one of the worst NBA players I had ever seen.

Likewise the other way.

(At least Flynn put up 13.5 PPG / 4.4 APG in 28.9 MPG as an 81-game starter his rookie year. By default, he's leaps and bounds better than Bennett.)

Flynn's rookie year really wasn't all that bad. The problem is it all went downhill starting season #2.

Absolutely. I'm not arguing that at all, but take a look at who we're supposed to be comparing him to...

Camden wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Scary thing is, Cool, Flynn and Wes showed way, way more than Bennett has to this point.

We could have that debate. I thought Flynn was one of the worst NBA players I had ever seen.

Likewise the other way.

(At least Flynn put up 13.5 PPG / 4.4 APG in 28.9 MPG as an 81-game starter his rookie year. By default, he's leaps and bounds better than Bennett.)

Flynn's rookie year really wasn't all that bad. The problem is it all went downhill starting season #2.

Absolutely. I'm not arguing that at all, but take a look at who we're supposed to be comparing him to...

Eh, guys can come around eventually and be decent contributors. I've always thought Bennett could be one of those guys. I'm just not willing to pay the price to find out.

For folks who say, "give him another year!", what you are really saying is give him another two years, because I believe we have to pick up the option on him for 2016-17 before the season starts or he becomes a free agent after this season. Are folks comfortable in tying up a roster spot and paying ~ $12M over two years for a guy that hasn't really produced yet?

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Scary thing is, Cool, Flynn and Wes showed way, way more than Bennett has to this point.

We could have that debate. I thought Flynn was one of the worst NBA players I had ever seen.

Likewise the other way.

(At least Flynn put up 13.5 PPG / 4.4 APG in 28.9 MPG as an 81-game starter his rookie year. By default, he's leaps and bounds better than Bennett.)

Flynn's rookie year really wasn't all that bad. The problem is it all went downhill starting season #2.

Why doesn't anybody want to acknowledge the significant hip injury that sapped his athleticism? He never regained the quickness that his game depended upon. I'm not saying he was going to be Steph Curry like, but stop acting like there isn't some serious extenuating circumstances in his fall from grace.

I think the Anthony Bennett situation is far more nuanced than some posters here treat it...his is not a black and white situation. On one hand you can't ignore the subpar stats he has put up his first two years, and his inability to stay healthy. He has not resembled a #1 pick in any way, and at close to $6 million a year and with Towns likely capable of playing the same position, it's easy to understand why Flip might have him on the trading block.

On the other hand, I can't group AB with three other famous #1 busts...Olawakandi, Darko and Bargnani. For one thing, there appears to be a huge difference in how the four of them approach being in the NBA. While the other three always seemed to project a casual, just happy to be there attitude, and didn't have the reputation as putting in a lot of effort, that isn't how anyone would describe AB. He seems to work on his body and his game in the off-season as diligently as anyone on our roster, and has also been praised for being a hard worker in practice. Next, while still modest, his stats clearly improved from year 1 to year 2. He raised his shooting percentage almost 7 percentage points in his sophomore season, and his per 36 stats were not horrendous...12.0 points and 8.7 rebounds. Not #1 pick numbers at all, to be sure, but at least decent 2nd year rotation player numbers.

The eye test for AB is mixed, but mostly negative, although sometimes I wonder how much of that has to do with how Flip directs him on offense. On the positive side, he showed a sweet touch and good form on his long 2-point shots in the first half of the year, and his dunks on the few times he actually went to the basket were often jaw-dropping. But at other times, and way too often, he seemed lost on both offense and defense.

I am far from giving up on AB. I sometimes go back and watch his college highlights (and his less frequent pro highlights), and nobody with an honest, informed opinion can deny that he has some impressive physical gifts. Jim Peterson says that AB lost confidence as the year went on, and I don't disagree. His form on his jumper looked the same, but it went in much less frequently the last half of the year. And it's baffling to me why he doesn't play inside more often (to that point, it's good to hear he is working hard on his post game this summer). There is so much potential there, and it frustrates me when he drifts on the court as he has a tendency to do sometimes.

After two injured and poor statistical seasons, GMs are going to be wary of giving up much for AB...even if they recognize his potential. That's why I'm not in favor of pulling the trigger on a trade...I much prefer seeing how he performs in a third year, although I fully recognize that Flip only has training camp and a few games at the start of the season before he needs to make a decision on AB's option...not optimal timing.

In two days, we are almost certain to add Towns to an already promising roster. While GMs spend more time looking at stats, I think players know who the real ballers are. I suspect if you asked KAT who he was excited about playing with this season, he would mention Rubio, Wiggins, KG, LaVine, Shabazz and...Anthony Bennett. There's no question he has seen all the highlight videos, and knows the kind of potential lurking there.

Like I said, AB's situation is quite nuanced. I understand why some would advocate dealing him for the likes of Vasquez...a 1-way journeyman PG. Better to get something for AB than to decline his option and let him leave for nothing. But my position still is to let the year play out. My expectations are balanced, but I also know that if AB could regain the confidence he had at UNLV, he could be a real X factor on this team.

longstrangetrip wrote:I think the Anthony Bennett situation is far more nuanced than some posters here treat it...his is not a black and white situation. On one hand you can't ignore the subpar stats he has put up his first two years, and his inability to stay healthy. He has not resembled a #1 pick in any way, and at close to $6 million a year and with Towns likely capable of playing the same position, it's easy to understand why Flip might have him on the trading block.

On the other hand, I can't group AB with three other famous #1 busts...Olawakandi, Darko and Bargnani. For one thing, there appears to be a huge difference in how the four of them approach being in the NBA. While the other three always seemed to project a casual, just happy to be there attitude, and didn't have the reputation as putting in a lot of effort, that isn't how anyone would describe AB. He seems to work on his body and his game in the off-season as diligently as anyone on our roster, and has also been praised for being a hard worker in practice. Next, while still modest, his stats clearly improved from year 1 to year 2. He raised his shooting percentage almost 7 percentage points in his sophomore season, and his per 36 stats were not horrendous...12.0 points and 8.7 rebounds. Not #1 pick numbers at all, to be sure, but at least decent 2nd year rotation player numbers.

The eye test for AB is mixed, but mostly negative, although sometimes I wonder how much of that has to do with how Flip directs him on offense. On the positive side, he showed a sweet touch and good form on his long 2-point shots in the first half of the year, and his dunks on the few times he actually went to the basket were often jaw-dropping. But at other times, and way too often, he seemed lost on both offense and defense.

I am far from giving up on AB. I sometimes go back and watch his college highlights (and his less frequent pro highlights), and nobody with an honest, informed opinion can deny that he has some impressive physical gifts. Jim Peterson says that AB lost confidence as the year went on, and I don't disagree. His form on his jumper looked the same, but it went in much less frequently the last half of the year. And it's baffling to me why he doesn't play inside more often (to that point, it's good to hear he is working hard on his post game this summer). There is so much potential there, and it frustrates me when he drifts on the court as he has a tendency to do sometimes.

After two injured and poor statistical seasons, GMs are going to be wary of giving up much for AB...even if they recognize his potential. That's why I'm not in favor of pulling the trigger on a trade...I much prefer seeing how he performs in a third year, although I fully recognize that Flip only has training camp and a few games at the start of the season before he needs to make a decision on AB's option...not optimal timing.

In two days, we are almost certain to add Towns to an already promising roster. While GMs spend more time looking at stats, I think players know who the real ballers are. I suspect if you asked KAT who he was excited about playing with this season, he would mention Rubio, Wiggins, KG, LaVine, Shabazz and...Anthony Bennett. There's no question he has seen all the highlight videos, and knows the kind of potential lurking there.

Like I said, AB's situation is quite nuanced. I understand why some would advocate dealing him for the likes of Vasquez...a 1-way journeyman PG. Better to get something for AB than to decline his option and let him leave for nothing. But my position still is to let the year play out. My expectations are balanced, but I also know that if AB could regain the confidence he had at UNLV, he could be a real X factor on this team.

The problem as I see it is his third year option has to be picked up before you know if he'll progress. If you keep him for his third year in the hope he does you almost have to pick up his option which means you're stuck with him next year if doesn't deliver on that promise.

I'd expect Karl to say Kevin Martin's name over Anthony Bennett's considering he'll actually play with him while the other rots on the bench. That's neither here nor there, though. What good is potential if the player will never realize it and get to that ceiling? I can make case after case for Michael Beasley, but it wasn't going to happen.

Also, this hasn't been mentioned in the last couple comments, but I'd much rather have Bjelica over Bennett and it isn't really close.

Edit: We know how this story goes, by the way. We've been through this already with Derrick Williams. You can fight it all you'd like, but the two have more similarities than differences. It's OKAY to waive the white flag on a guy; just do it early enough to where you're able to salvage a rotation player (Vasquez, Calderon, etc.) out of it.

Acknowledging Flynn's #'s weren't terrible his rookie year, I still thought he was an awful basketball player from the get-go. Terrible shot selection, forced most things, didn't create much for others, too small to be a good defender. And this was BEFORE his hip injury. He was one guy I would have given up on after his first 50 games. He's been proving me right since.