Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:Updated (thanks Cam for holding the fort down):

TheSP; 50...I think
60WinTim: 44
Phenom: 43
kek: 42
leado: 37
FNG: 37
Kiwi, D'Natagal: 36
mrhockey: 35
Mikkeman: 35
Cam: 34
doper: 33
Volans: 32
crazysauce: 31
WildWolf, Pork: 30
BizarroJerry: 29
bleedspeed: 28.5 (exception allowed, although he has no chance now with 28 & 29 taken!)
monster: 28
khans: 26
Cool: 23
ItsJustSoSab: 22

I'm number one! I'm number one! :D

And yes it's 50, always 50, never more, never less... until the day I'm correct, or dead.

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:

PorkChop wrote:I'm with WildWolf, 30 wins. That's being generous!
I look at every team in the West and can't make an argument for being better than any of them without wearing rose colored glasses.

Go check out the Kings, Spurs, Thunder, and Grizzlies rosters and tell me how they're better than the Wolves. There's no logical way. I'm comfortable throwing in the Pelicans into that group as well.

Rosters aside, Minnesota probably has the worst head coach in the league, but high-level talent should offset that a bit.

Cam, you won't stop with your unbridled hatred of Ryan. What did Ryan do to you? Please get some professional help.

It's not unbridled hate when it's a fair observation. I actually think Ryan Saunders is an awesome guy from what I've seen, but that's not enough. Butterflies and rainbows are not viable reasons for hire -- neither is someone's family name. The facts are that Saunders is inexperienced and unqualified to be an NBA head coach and his results (36-70 W/L; .340 W%) through 106 games do not support his case either.

I challenge you as well as this board to name head coaches in the league that Saunders is unquestionably better or more qualified than. Good luck to those that take on this challenge.

I don't recall you talking about how unqualified Thibs was to take on a front office roll. Instead you were pimping the Turd. The Wolves had to clean up the mess that Thibs left and Ryan was pretty much the consensus guy to take over mid season and Ryan stepped up. Rosas chose to keep him and he's had one season with a depleted and inexperienced roster. Ryan gets an incomplete grade from me, but I don't think many coaches could win with the roster Ryan had since he took over and this season the Wolves are expected to be one of the worst teams in the West. https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

Why is it that whenever there's criticism of Ryan Saunders you desperately turn it into a Tom Thibodeau conversation? That's a troubling process to go through every time we have this discussion.

Also, for full transparency, I never envisioned Thibs being hired in a dual-role position, but was accepting of that reality if it meant bringing in a head coach that had a winning history. The guy had won nearly 60-percent of his games coached at the time with multiple playoff series wins under his belt. It was a no-brainer to me and I was ready to see someone outside the country club try to elevate this franchise out of the dumpster.

Additionally, Saunders only replaced Thibodeau because Glen Taylor is the owner. I am firm in my belief that if Ryan's last name was Williams -- or anything other than Saunders -- that he would still be an assistant coach to this day. There were more qualified assistant coaches on the staff then and that rings true even today with David Vanterpool and Pablo Prigioni on staff. Saunders is the novice of the bunch.

Saunders has coached 106 ball games -- much of them while having an All-NBA player at his disposal, and he's won just over one-third of those games. Oftentimes, he's outsmarted in terms of gamesmanship and clock management. And as far as player development, I haven't seen much of that to this point that would make me believe he's the next Erik Spoelstra or Scott Brooks.

So, you can give him an incomplete, but I'm not impressed by the job he's done whatsoever. You also failed to name any head coach in the league that he's definitively better than or more qualified than. My assumption is that such a coach does not exist. Saunders is in all likelihood the worst or most unqualified in the entire NBA.

Cam how would you compare Mark Daigneault's qualifications to Ryan Saunders?

monsterpile wrote:Cam how would you compare Mark Daigneault's qualifications to Ryan Saunders?

Daigneault has worked under both Jim Calhoun at UCONN as a player manager and Billy Donovan at Florida as well as Oklahoma City as an assistant coach in both stints. Those are some very noteworthy mentors in the college game and I can only imagine what he learned under their watch. Comparatively, Ryan Saunders has been fortunate to learn under his father's watch -- hopefully both the good and bad -- as well as Randy Wittman in Washington. I guess we'll call this a draw.

Most importantly, however, Daigneault has five seasons of head coaching experience in the G-League going 143-107 (.572) with four playoff berths. The competition level is definitely different from the NBA, of course, but I think the game scenarios and reps are still valuable in a coaching sense. This is where I think he outclasses Saunders due to time on job. The G-League has also produced successful head coaches in Nick Nurse and Quin Snyder in the past. Is Daigneault cut from that same cloth or is he more of a Luke Walton type? Time will tell, I suppose.

The point here is that Daigneault has a legitimate history. There's a background there that suggests he could have success at the NBA level. Would he have been my top choice if I was an NBA executive? Probably not, but is he a more qualified candidate than Saunders? Absolutely, yes.

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Cam how would you compare Mark Daigneault's qualifications to Ryan Saunders?

Daigneault has worked under both Jim Calhoun at UCONN as a player manager and Billy Donovan at Florida as well as Oklahoma City as an assistant coach in both stints. Those are some very noteworthy mentors in the college game and I can only imagine what he learned under their watch. Comparatively, Ryan Saunders has been fortunate to learn under his father's watch -- hopefully both the good and bad -- as well as Randy Wittman in Washington. I guess we'll call this a draw.

Most importantly, however, Daigneault has five seasons of head coaching experience in the G-League going 143-107 (.572) with four playoff berths. The competition level is definitely different from the NBA, of course, but I think the game scenarios and reps are still valuable in a coaching sense. This is where I think he outclasses Saunders due to time on job. The G-League has also produced successful head coaches in Nick Nurse and Quin Snyder in the past. Is Daigneault cut from that same cloth or is he more of a Luke Walton type? Time will tell, I suppose.

The point here is that Daigneault has a legitimate history. There's a background there that suggests he could have success at the NBA level. Would he have been my top choice if I was an NBA executive? Probably not, but is he a more qualified candidate than Saunders? Absolutely, yes.

To go along with that in his 5 years as the G-League coach he developed 8 NBA players and 4 other 2-way guys. Showing he could have developmental potential. But like Cam said he has coached under 2 of the best college coaches of all time.

Compared to Ryan who has been on a coaching staff for 12 years and only 2 of those years did those teams have winning record. His last year in Washington and Thibs last full year.

I don't think any of us want Ryan to fail, I don't think any of us think Ryan is a bad human or a bad assistant coach. Just worried that he got the job because his name is Saunders and Taylor loves the country club coming off of toxic non country club hire in Thibs.

I have just seen nothing in his year and a half to show Ryan is/should be the main guy. Also there hasn't been a player under him that has taken a big developmental leap.

Once again I hope Ryan is the guy and I think coaching is overrated and only a few coaches make legit positive and negative differences just worried Ryan is one of the negative ones

Camden wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:

PorkChop wrote:I'm with WildWolf, 30 wins. That's being generous!
I look at every team in the West and can't make an argument for being better than any of them without wearing rose colored glasses.

Go check out the Kings, Spurs, Thunder, and Grizzlies rosters and tell me how they're better than the Wolves. There's no logical way. I'm comfortable throwing in the Pelicans into that group as well.

Rosters aside, Minnesota probably has the worst head coach in the league, but high-level talent should offset that a bit.

Cam, you won't stop with your unbridled hatred of Ryan. What did Ryan do to you? Please get some professional help.

It's not unbridled hate when it's a fair observation. I actually think Ryan Saunders is an awesome guy from what I've seen, but that's not enough. Butterflies and rainbows are not viable reasons for hire -- neither is someone's family name. The facts are that Saunders is inexperienced and unqualified to be an NBA head coach and his results (36-70 W/L; .340 W%) through 106 games do not support his case either.

I challenge you as well as this board to name head coaches in the league that Saunders is unquestionably better or more qualified than. Good luck to those that take on this challenge.

I don't recall you talking about how unqualified Thibs was to take on a front office roll. Instead you were pimping the Turd. The Wolves had to clean up the mess that Thibs left and Ryan was pretty much the consensus guy to take over mid season and Ryan stepped up. Rosas chose to keep him and he's had one season with a depleted and inexperienced roster. Ryan gets an incomplete grade from me, but I don't think many coaches could win with the roster Ryan had since he took over and this season the Wolves are expected to be one of the worst teams in the West. https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

Why is it that whenever there's criticism of Ryan Saunders you desperately turn it into a Tom Thibodeau conversation? That's a troubling process to go through every time we have this discussion.

Also, for full transparency, I never envisioned Thibs being hired in a dual-role position, but was accepting of that reality if it meant bringing in a head coach that had a winning history. The guy had won nearly 60-percent of his games coached at the time with multiple playoff series wins under his belt. It was a no-brainer to me and I was ready to see someone outside the country club try to elevate this franchise out of the dumpster.

Additionally, Saunders only replaced Thibodeau because Glen Taylor is the owner. I am firm in my belief that if Ryan's last name was Williams -- or anything other than Saunders -- that he would still be an assistant coach to this day. There were more qualified assistant coaches on the staff then and that rings true even today with David Vanterpool and Pablo Prigioni on staff. Saunders is the novice of the bunch.

Saunders has coached 106 ball games -- much of them while having an All-NBA player at his disposal, and he's won just over one-third of those games. Oftentimes, he's outsmarted in terms of gamesmanship and clock management. And as far as player development, I haven't seen much of that to this point that would make me believe he's the next Erik Spoelstra or Scott Brooks.

So, you can give him an incomplete, but I'm not impressed by the job he's done whatsoever. You also failed to name any head coach in the league that he's definitively better than or more qualified than. My assumption is that such a coach does not exist. Saunders is in all likelihood the worst or most unqualified in the entire NBA.

Its tiresome responding to all your misleading crap and I can never get the last word, as I am not not on here like you, 24/7 as I have a job, a family and a life outside of this forum. Have it your way for now, Ryan is the anti-christ, DLO is Jesus and you are never wrong.

24 wins. If KAT mentally checks out on the team or KAT or Ricky miss a big chunk of the season, then I'm probably being too optimistic.

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Cam how would you compare Mark Daigneault's qualifications to Ryan Saunders?

Daigneault has worked under both Jim Calhoun at UCONN as a player manager and Billy Donovan at Florida as well as Oklahoma City as an assistant coach in both stints. Those are some very noteworthy mentors in the college game and I can only imagine what he learned under their watch. Comparatively, Ryan Saunders has been fortunate to learn under his father's watch -- hopefully both the good and bad -- as well as Randy Wittman in Washington. I guess we'll call this a draw.

Most importantly, however, Daigneault has five seasons of head coaching experience in the G-League going 143-107 (.572) with four playoff berths. The competition level is definitely different from the NBA, of course, but I think the game scenarios and reps are still valuable in a coaching sense. This is where I think he outclasses Saunders due to time on job. The G-League has also produced successful head coaches in Nick Nurse and Quin Snyder in the past. Is Daigneault cut from that same cloth or is he more of a Luke Walton type? Time will tell, I suppose.

The point here is that Daigneault has a legitimate history. There's a background there that suggests he could have success at the NBA level. Would he have been my top choice if I was an NBA executive? Probably not, but is he a more qualified candidate than Saunders? Absolutely, yes.

To go along with that in his 5 years as the G-League coach he developed 8 NBA players and 4 other 2-way guys. Showing he could have developmental potential. But like Cam said he has coached under 2 of the best college coaches of all time.

Compared to Ryan who has been on a coaching staff for 12 years and only 2 of those years did those teams have winning record. His last year in Washington and Thibs last full year.

I don't think any of us want Ryan to fail, I don't think any of us think Ryan is a bad human or a bad assistant coach. Just worried that he got the job because his name is Saunders and Taylor loves the country club coming off of toxic non country club hire in Thibs.

I have just seen nothing in his year and a half to show Ryan is/should be the main guy. Also there hasn't been a player under him that has taken a big developmental leap.

Once again I hope Ryan is the guy and I think coaching is overrated and only a few coaches make legit positive and negative differences just worried Ryan is one of the negative ones

Thanks for the responses and they have perfectly good points. I will mention there have been some pretty coaches over the years that have no head coaching experience at any level before getting an NBA job. 2 that come to mind are part of what has been brought up in regards to Ryan Sainders pedigree in terms of who he worked under. JVG and Spolstra worked for Pat Riley and he saw the ability of those guys. I do think it's fair to consider that guys don't have to have that lower level of coaching experience to do well at the NBA level. Like you I like seeing it though.

Nobody is cheering for Ryan to fail and while I'm much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt I also feel skeptical especially compared to some of the talent that was available this offseason. My only thing is that we can stay skeptical without burying him for every little time he might not do everything right. Even the good coaches don't make every right move. I'm not saying give him a free pass but let's also not go against him because he got the job of who he was. Let's take a step back and objectively see what he does from here on out.

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:FNG,

Yes, the optimism is normal around this time of the year for this board. We usually have a few that get it right, but the vast majority of us that are predicting the over are wrong annually for one reason or another. Sometimes it's unforeseen circumstances and other times it's expecting player improvement that never materializes.

Also, I saw Karl-Anthony Towns doing some drills and some highlights of him in practice. He's there and participating. I think the Wolves social media put out a video of him catching a lob from Ricky Rubio not too long ago.

If you want to see Towns Has been around there is videos and pics of him on Timberwolves Twitter page.

Thanks for the replies, Camden and monsterpile...KAT lives! It's been odd to not see any evidence of him on the daily 5-minute B-rolls. Further, there are about 50 practice photos on timberwolves.com featuring everyone on the team- except KAT. Quite strange that he's been so comparatively invisible, but I'm relieved you guys uncovered some evidence of his presence!

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:FNG,

Yes, the optimism is normal around this time of the year for this board. We usually have a few that get it right, but the vast majority of us that are predicting the over are wrong annually for one reason or another. Sometimes it's unforeseen circumstances and other times it's expecting player improvement that never materializes.

Also, I saw Karl-Anthony Towns doing some drills and some highlights of him in practice. He's there and participating. I think the Wolves social media put out a video of him catching a lob from Ricky Rubio not too long ago.

If you want to see Towns Has been around there is videos and pics of him on Timberwolves Twitter page.

Thanks for the replies, Camden and monsterpile...KAT lives! It's been odd to not see any evidence of him on the daily 5-minute B-rolls. Further, there are about 50 practice photos on timberwolves.com featuring everyone on the team- except KAT. Quite strange that he's been so comparatively invisible, but I'm relieved you guys uncovered some evidence of his presence!

It's a little strange there is less of Towns. They have clearly featured Russell a decent amount but I actually like seeing more of other guys we know who Towns is. It's worth remembering Towns lost an Uncle a week or 2 ago. I'm cool if they want to focus more attention on other guys for a bit. I'm a little surprised they haven't focused more on Edwards.